Schools to close again.. Covid

km79

https://www.asti.ie/news-campaigns/latest-news/health-and-safety-must-be-the-priority-for-the-re-opening-of/

asti want delayed AND staggered return

Random sample

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412544#Comment_118412544

Ffs

Id have preferred a statement saying they would like to hear what public health doctors have to say about it, keeping an open mind, deferring to greater knowledge…

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411717#Comment_118411717

Well, holy sh1t - I never saw that article before. Other types mentioned are those poxy CPD days we are made do. Clutching bringing unpaid mat leave into it too. With the amount of pressure that is put on subs to 'put their best foot forward' when they get in the door of a school, I'd say that the feckers (to use the nice word) are actually saving money.

shesty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411521#Comment_118411521

Because that is how they have always done things.

This nonsense is what I find annoying.The Dept should be procuring these centrally for starters.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412928#Comment_118412928

Of course they should.

Teaching unions should be pointing out the lack of direction from the DOE.

The media should be pointing out the failings of the unions and DOE.

timmymagoo

I see the asti is now trying to do nphets job too, never knew teachers were so well qualified in such matters

The question maybe is what can't they do? Teach says the scuts at the back

Gusser09

It was always going to come down to the last few hours. I think ASTI know that the government werent going to address the schools and a delaying of opening anymore so they had to release some sort of half arsed solution to put pressure on.

Let your members go back to work ffs. Fully vaxxed with the new variant being no issue. Absolute parasites in my view and when the next pay talks are on this needs to be remembered.

I feel sorry for the genuine teachers in all of this who must feel like they are being tarred with the same brush as the crap ones.

Shameful.

Mad Benny

The teacher representatives and unions always mention student welfare and conditions. During lockdown I was shocked at the lack of teacher engagement when my daughter was in primary and then progressed to secondary. Teachers unions are only interested in teachers working less hours and getting paid more. They don't care about students.

km79

https://www.issu.ie/news2/return-to-school-stance

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413211#Comment_118413211

"Let your members go back to work ffs. Fully vaxxed with the new variant being no issue. Absolute parasites in my view and when the next pay talks are on this needs to be remembered."

That would be a welcome consequence for them. The last thing the unions want (who mostly consist of retired teachers or those on the decent pay scale) is pay equality. They've literally got too much to lose.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413486#Comment_118413486

Good for them. I wonder how many times they will get called lazy and work-shy for standing up for their safety.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413486#Comment_118413486

looks like the students are lazy too! who cares about their health concerns send them, the teachers and all the lazy office workers back to work - problem solved - omicron, demlicron, fluicon or whatever it is mutating into next while we have 15-30k cases a day while we struggle to even get a pcr test as hospital numbers double in a week - will be gone soon enough...

why not reduce the isolation period to zero days and send sick people into work to spread this harmless cold/virus/disease around further to all and sundry - vulnerble and non-vulnerable a like?

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413486#Comment_118413486

Apparently so too has the ETB National Parents Association which represents 47 % of post primary schools

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/parents-association-calls-for-staggered-reopening-of-schools-amid-omicron-surge-1237088.html

But that doesn’t tally with the power happy unions and lazy teachers posts that have started already.

Looks like the early childcare sector are lazy shites too.

https://twitter.com/murphydunne/status/1478099768861728768?s=21

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413589#Comment_118413589

INTO and TUI seem to be jumping on the lazy parents, lazy students and lazy office worker band wagon tonight too ..

will be interesting tomorrow to see if the government run rough shod over all stakeholder concerns or have a humiliating capitulation before nphets meeting on thursday

joe40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413573#Comment_118413573

What do you think should happen now? What actions should the government actually take now.

I’d like to ask the head of our unions, if teachers are triple vaxxed now (if they want to be) secondary students are vaxed and masked, primaries can be vaxxed (and masked from 9 up), and the virus has become milder, if it is not safe now, then when is it?

When Covid magically disappears? When the government magically kit out every classroom with a filter after a typical painstaking rendering process?

Staggering kicks the can down the road. It just delays the inevitable. It’s not March 2020 any more, delaying only elongates things unnecessarily. A constructive thing to do would to be discussing the isolation and close contact rules, and potentially stronger testing and tracing measures. Delaying reopening is a measure which will throw our profession to the wolves.

joe40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413989#Comment_118413989

Yes fully agree. Our profession is important, the work we do is important.

With widespread vaccinations I do not believe the risk to staff or pupils posed by COVID at this stage warrants school closures.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413968#Comment_118413968

good question joe40, that is above all our pay grades but a good starting point would be for the government to listen carefully tomorrow to the parent associations, the student unions, the teacher and sna unions all the stakeholders on the ground, take a good look at the doubling of hospital numbers in a week, wait till nephet the actual health experts have their latest meeting after Christmas on Thursday and then make a decision about a safe staggered/hybrid return to learning in due course with all the proper safety measures in place .. what else should they do send everyone back to offices and schools and wait for the i told you so when then the nations hospital/icu system collapses ... the pcr testing system is already in absolute pieces...

teachinggal123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414001#Comment_118414001

So why are the unions pushing for another closure?

Voice for teachers tonight had a prominent member of ISAG as a special guest tonight.

It’s not hard to see where the idea of closures and delayed reopenings is coming from if this is what they’ve attached themselves to.

ISAG are a lobby group who have been pushing a zero Covid fallacy for nearly two years. They have been shown to engage in tactics to emotionally mislead the public and undervalue vaccines. They have had members on podcasts saying that hundreds of children will die in Ireland due to Covid.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414008#Comment_118414008

this short clip probably explains why

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM8EU4FRG/

covid peak in 6-15 days, hospital peak lags after that ..

joe40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414008#Comment_118414008

I don't agree with the union position on this.

joe40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414004#Comment_118414004

If Nephet and other public health experts thought school re opening was too dangerous they would be saying so by now.

The general consensus among the health experts seem to be to keep going with current plans.

Obviously that could all change but I'm personally in favour of schools reopening as planned.

Grueller

All the scutter about donning the green Jersey and we are all in this together. Then those at the top don't or won't meet today, 3 days before schools are due to open, because its a public holiday? Seriously? What about parents that need to try and organise childcare amid this uncertainty? Not very green Jersey at all!!!

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414049#Comment_118414049

nphet still on holidays i.e. not even bothering to have their meeting till thursday .. not exactly helping government make uptodate informed decisions given rapidly deteriorating situation

DSN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413589#Comment_118413589

This is complete BS not one single parent I know wants this. Who are these people?

These Karen's or whoever the hell they are stop representing me & the vast vast majority. Unless it's just the Media stirring their **** like usual. Wouldn't surprise me..

DSN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413989#Comment_118413989

It still doesn't do anything about the staffing issues, which is prevalent across the board in all industries. My husband had bad symptoms for about 5 days, rang our GP last Friday to be referred for PCR, which he has on Wednesday (tomorrow)! He is due back to work on Tuesday (today)! It's not his fault he has to wait.

I am due our baby in 6 weeks and obviously want to know if he is positive or not.

The peak is still not due for another 7-10 days. Is it really going to affect children and their mental health if we have a delayed reopening of 7 school days? Dramatic much.

DSN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414127#Comment_118414127

Condescending much?

DSN

Just 7 days? Then the magic case numbers don’t go down? Throw on another few days. Only kids education sure. Just a few more days on top of all the time they’ve missed.

Yes the isolation and close contact rules are the main barrier at the moment. They will eventually be changed, hopefully before Thursday, but they should be in at least a week or two.

The answer to schools having shortages of staff isn’t to close them down again.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414150#Comment_118414150

So what do you do if there's a shortage of staff, if you don't want to close?

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414120#Comment_118414120

Not unlike how us teachers feel about unions and parents with an axe to grind, hiding behind rereg accounts and their own agendas, pretending to speak for us all.

Bobtheman

Parents and students association have come out for a staggered opening.

The government certainly needs to clarify the rules on isolating.

Nobody here is a principal so we have no idea how many calls they got from staff.

Im still amazed at how late the government is running this. Making clear decisions etc

Random sample

I really wish the union would focus on the absence rate more than the safety measures at this stage. K Christie mentioned this morning that some principals are expecting 40-50% absences on Thursday morning. Surely that should be the issue they are shouting from the rooftops? And would make sense in terms of a staggered reopening. I also think 5th years should be included in the initial return.

I would have 3rd, 5th and 6th years back Thursday, assess staffing, the rest Monday, assuming staff are available.

km79

Is it a prerequisite of becoming ASTI president that you are absolutely incapable of coherent public speaking ? Newstalk this morning was an embarassment. He more or less made it sound like teachers will go on strike Thursday if schools are open which is absolutely not and should not be in the conversation .

The primary principal who followed on was excellent . Probably because he is actually working through this on the ground ………

combat14

At this stage Nphet need to move their meeting forward to today/tomorrow and make some concrete announcement on what is happening with pcr system, hse antigen system (apparenly website stops working at 8pm at night), and actual isolation rules - no one knows anymore there have been so many adhoc official/unofficial press releases from various government ministers over last 2 weeks....

From Irish Indo today - TUI Rep:

“There needs to be clarity also on if different rules apply if you are a positive case or a close contact.

“Our members are asking us what ‘Day One’ (of isolating) is. Is it when they get a positive antigen test, or is it when they get a positive PCR test?

“They also don’t know if the isolation period is 10 days, seven days, or five days, and all these things need to be clarified."

impossible to safely open schools or offices under these circumstances...

kala85

Hspc guidelines were updated at the weekend

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414610#Comment_118414610

appears to be some sort of complex 8 page isolation guide up there that most people wont be able to follow.. looks like it needs to be updated again no mention of antigen test for under 40s before pcr test - all rules seem to be pcr based and no clear mention of latest government speculation on 5 day isolation - has that been introduced or not - who knows it is all rapidly changing apparently and very unclear ...

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414529#Comment_118414529

This would probably work fairly well, at least you could guarantee cover and see what the lay of the land is regarding the following week. I know a good few people isolating til the weekend but who could be back the following week and people picking it up seems to have dropped thankfully, but it's very hard to know what till happen in the next week or two, with boosters, a new varient, some herd immunity from the sheer scale of spread in the last month, a lot of unknowns.

Primary seems much tricker, you can play a bit of chess in secondary, send a class home early, bring them in late, you can even gamble a bit because bar the odd 1st or 2nd year they can generally make their own way home. Principals in primary must really be under pressure.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414787#Comment_118414787

will be very difficult for many schools given:

the Chief Executive of Ibec has said that 15-18% of staff are absent due to Covid in those businesses that are open.

Danny McCoy said this rate is also "likely to be building" upwards given the scale of the case numbers and the ten day isolation period [for those not yet boosted]. (rte)

piplip87

I'd imagine whatever happens today, many parents will not send kid in until after the weekend. I know my two step kids where in their dads since Stephens day and are home tomorrow. We won't be sending them until Monday as a precaution because they spent a fair bit of time in different households over the last week or so. We will antigen test over the weekend and make the decision about next week based on that. Luckily we've a 16 and a 10 year old so they are no hassle while we work from home. I do feel for those with younger kids and for people who cannot work from home.

JohnnyIreland

Anyone interested in Irish or English H1 leaving cert notes from a "grind school" let me know! I do not need them anymore

imme62

JohnnyIreland i definitely would! Apologies if im not replying in the correct manner as am a bit lost with Boards these days.

imme62

Random sample

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414787#Comment_118414787

Listening to Jonathan Healy this morning and the above point was made by the asti rep, Healy was like a dog with a bone asking him what asti will do if we are told it’s a full return on Thursday. Very obviously trying to goad him into a sound bite. He handled it well, but it made for an uncomfortable interview.

On your point about kids making their way home, we are a rural school, and a majority of our students would not be able to make their way home without buses or parents.

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415654#Comment_118415654

Fair point, I'm in the city so long I've forgotten half the kids in my own school come by bus!! The recruitment crisis is less of an issue in rural areas too I suppose but I imagine it's everywhere now.

The media will blame it on teachers one way or another, best ignored.

terrytrap

I think that because of online learning, our children may have a worse understanding of school subjects. In addition, children need teaching. I think that schools should not be closed because of the coronavirus. It's horrible. 

Gusser09

Parent here of a child who attends a special needs school. If the children who are most impacted by this decision are hung out to dry again I will scream blue murder. There are 4 kids in his class with 3 SNAs. Criminal carry on from the unions once again. Sickening to the stomach in fact. I feel for the genuine teachers who want to get back in and do their jobs. As usual it will the children without a voice and the children from poverty stricken areas will suffer the most. The unions need to cop the fcuk on as do the Government.

Furze99

I'd think that school principals and boards want clear direction. They don't want to be left to decide on a 'school by school' basis. Otherwise when they make a decision to close, they'll get heat from both some parents and the dept.