Schools to close again.. Covid

Newbie20

Sorry if this is slightly off topic but does anyone know what happens here….. I’m a close contact of a relative who has a positive antigen test. But he can’t get a PCR, there’s just none at all available.

So I should be isolating according to the HSE, which I am but I haven’t officially been told I am a contact because my relative can’t get a PCR, just positive antigens. So do I go to work as normal on Thursday or not? I’m going to contact school tomorrow to see but just wondering if anyone knows or in a similar situation? Guidelines are gone so unclear now it’s crazy.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418833#Comment_118418833

ASTI represents all teachers who are members of ASTI, obviously they do not represent all teachers. Also, when joining a union you allow yourself to be represented collectively, for good or bad. There are upsides for members of course when the union has the upper hand in pay talks (last time during the bubble), the downside for teachers union members is the behavior of the unions result in teachers being perceived in a certain way.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419633#Comment_118419633

I genuinely have no clue what "the upper hand in pay talks (last time during the bubble)" refers to.

Pay is not the issue here.

I don't know what to say to you re: parent's associations. They exist in every school and anyone who doesn't know about them has chosen not to know about them. They, unlike unions, work with the schools. They meet regularly enough with principals and school management and reps from PAs are on the BOMs too. They are not the makey uppy group that some seem to think they are and they dont operate in a vacuum, outside of the school community.

As someone who volunteers a lot in my local community, I'm not surprised people don't know who they are though. The disproportion between those in a community who sit on their holes moaning (about anything in general) and those who get up off their hole to get involved is staggering.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419906#Comment_118419906

Well, PS unions in the early to mid 2000's had the government over a barrel. ASTI lodged a 30% pay claim in 2000 for example.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/asti-asks-teacher-unions-to-join-30-pay-claim-1.262550

Maybe you aren't old enough to remember this. Obviously everything changed after the bubble burst. It is really just an example that union members take the positives and negatives of being members. If ASTI members are not happy with how the union represents their interests, maybe join TUI? ASTI remains the largest secondary union, so obviously people are happy with how they are represented.

I know what a parents association is, my wife is involved with it in the kids school (not ETB). It is most definitely not a union that represents all parents.

Treppen

People saying the unions don't represents teachers.

People saying parents associations' don't represent parents.

People saying Students Union doesn't represent students.

.... But happy to be represented by Norma Foley without question!

Go figure.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420027#Comment_118420027

Most parents will not have joined the parents association though. The teaching unions are opt in, teachers who join the pick the union they want to join and pay a due from their salary. I am sure you get the difference!

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419980#Comment_118419980

I began teaching in 2008 so am too young to have been represented by, or benefitted from that.

Nobody is saying that the parents association is a union.

To be fair, if this parents association were looking for full return tomorrow, you would be happy for them to speak for you and this conversation wouldn't be happening. And there is nothing wrong with that, it is normal to not take issue with a person/group/organisation who holds the same opinion as you do.

Personally, I was a TUI member. I left last year because I had had enough of their sh1te. They absolutely do not have the best interests of teachers at heart and in fact they gave me completely false information in relation to an issue I had with predicted grades last year. They are the worst and I would rather burn the monthly contributions than give it to them. They don't speak for all teachers and they don't speak the truth for all their members either.

However, I still get judged for everything they say. Even though I don't pay contributions and I don't agree with what they say.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420060#Comment_118420060

Many people will not have joined any representative organisation and claim they didn't know about it or didn't think they represented their views... That's understandable.

But what I don't get is people giving out about every organisation except the Minister.

You can't claim you didn't know about politicians!

The minister is the one with the deciding vote so direct the anger there first.

That's the difference.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420065#Comment_118420065

I don't think that the NPA's opinion on school reopening has any relevance at all. I am interested in whether public health thinks they should open or not, that is all. It is up to them to decide if it is ok to open. I think they have often overreacted, keeping us within 5 km of our homes last year and keeping restaurants closed for 7 months was excessive in my opinion. But, if they decided that we need to keep schools closed along with other measures to prevent case numbers becoming unmanageable I would accept that.

When you left TUI did you join ASTI or remain outside of a union? I think if teachers want to change the way their profession is perceived, they really need to get on top of how their unions represent them.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420120#Comment_118420120

I don't think the minister is necessarily doing a bad job though, so why would I direct the anger there? She became minister during the pandemic so I hardly expect her to have made great changes to the education system.

Working class heroes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420065#Comment_118420065

Yes, someone did say they were a union, previous page.

Yes, if this parents association were lobbying for a full return tomorrow i'd say that most parents would be happy, as that's what they want.

They still wouldn't be speaking for all parents mind you but they would be in agreement.

I hear you on your last paragraph. I had a very similar experience in a different sector.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420122#Comment_118420122

I'm not in a union. They have nothing to offer me that my teaching contract and the Irish constitution doesn't already protect me from.

They are a total waste of money.

They are also quite a condescending group of individuals, from my experience of them and they have less than zero interest in their youngest members.

Most teachers join because there is a lot of shady carry on in the industry around contracts. I would bet that most would leave after they get their contract, if they took the time to think about it. Even more would if they attended a meeting or two and heard how they go on

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419405#Comment_118419405

not fully qualified to provide concrete answer but with that * out of the way

- if you are under 40 have you tried a few antigen tests ...

- over 40? booked a pcr test (not sure if you need symptoms or not to do this..)

- have you got any official message from hse (not sure has system crashed on this)

- you could ring or call into local gp for advice - they are the medical experts

- ask your employer for a medical grade mask - cloth masks apparently are only 40% effective at protecting spread of covid

- ask employer for guidance ...

- failing that just turn up to work like everyone else tomorrow hoping we dont give (or get) covid to/from someones kid and ultimately pass it on to other teachers/grandparents/students/

vulnerable people/parents/ family etc..

it is a difficult one with lots of talk of government again changing isolation rules and nothing definite yet .........

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420165#Comment_118420165

Okay, didn't realise they were called a union. Now I am hoping it wasn't me who said it because that will be extra embarrassing 🤣

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419980#Comment_118419980

Not sure of the point of stuff that requires the phrase "maybe you aren't old enough to remember this". We are in a particular set of circumstances here. Grinding a 20 year old axe with unions is irrelevant.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420196#Comment_118420196

Dont let someone hang you up on a single word. The ASTI doesn't use the word 'union' in its name. These organisations represent people whether people like it or not. There's no particular legal status to the word 'union'.

Working class heroes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420196#Comment_118420196

nah, was'nt you😀

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420230#Comment_118420230

The point was in relation to benefit/disadvantage to being in one of the teaching unions. The unions and ASTI in particular have developed a reputation over the last 20 years or so. Of course it affects how teachers are perceived. That is the downside.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420158#Comment_118420158

First announcement as minister was for a school in her local area.

And where are we on HEPA filters? They were recommended two years ago.

Also subs... Remember she said there was no problem and she didn't hear any principals saying it was an issue.

Also dept school inspectors who are qualified teachers but doing sweet fanny Adams going around asking if we know who the principal is for child protection.

And JCT seconded teachers and their post-it notes.

Also an advisory committee proclaiming that teachers will be in over the Easter with practicals.

Let us not forget the Friday afternoon circulars!

Other Government ministers making announcements on schools and education before the Minister.

The stuff above is very easy to address

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420196#Comment_118420196

Just checked my posts and neither did I 🤷‍♀️ I did link to them and also ISSU and early childcare providers.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417499#Comment_118417499

This is the one.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420453#Comment_118420453

Yeah, it's just a word. By your logic the ASTI is not a union either because they don't use the magic word. These conversations are mind-numbing.

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420298#Comment_118420298

In relation to primary she

removed banked hours

redirected SET away from children with AEN

stood over outside agencies tasked with providing supports for AEN students not coming into schools due to Covid concerns yet incidentals still went ahead 🤷‍♀️

Refused to free up the inspectorate and those on secondment ( all of whom are qualified teachers ) to aid in the sub crises depending instead on SET , retired teachers and students which were not enough.

Thats not even looking at covid issues such as no HEPA filters , not enough CO2 monitors , the hand sanitizer fiasco the withdrawal of contact tracing.

ETA - in my opinion she has been a piss poor minister for ed but she certainly wins the miss popularity contest and will be seen as a great one altogether who kept the schools open and stuck it to the unions.

Must say my fav was the comment in the dail I’m on the side of the children - as she eroded supports for those that needed it the most. fuckit I’d hate to see what she’d do if she wasn’t on the side of the children - absolute dose.

Rosita

Funny one this morning with the Minister on the radio in another "let's throw in a few impressive sounding words like 'notwithstanding' and I won't sound so unprepared" interviews. She was asked about the role of Inspectors and she said they would be at the end of the phone and would help to advise schools about which classes to send home if they had no teachers. Sounded really cringey.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420500#Comment_118420500

Sweet Jesus.........that's about as moronic as it gets

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420500#Comment_118420500

Might be better served inside the school subbing no ?

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420471#Comment_118420471

NPA is not a union, you referred to is as such.

ASTI is a union, I am sure you would agree with that?

Neither has union in the name, I never suggested a union needs to have the word in the name. That is something you made up yourself.

A union represents its members who make a conscious decision to join.

Rosita

Nonsense. A union is an organisation which acts as an intermediary between its members and those with which it engages. You are trying to be prescriptive about its membership simply because you don't like its message.

The 'conscious decision' thing is just something you made up because you are confusing it with unions which raise money to fund full time staff.

The Parents and Students are legitimate voices which is why they were involved with government in the discussions. You can call their organisations football clubs if it makes you feel better.

Working class heroes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420471#Comment_118420471

Words are powerful my friend, mind numbingly so......

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420691#Comment_118420691

This comment is as pointless as it thinks it's clever.

Higgins5473

This thread title is very misleading and should be amended. It’s a statement and not a question. Schools are not closing.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420559#Comment_118420559

Jesus how do you type with those boxing gloves.

The point is that they are a representative body representing parents.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420735#Comment_118420735

I think the ellipsis in the title serves a similar function to a question mark. But hopefully there'll be nobody reliant exclusively on this thread title for guidance. Not when there's Inspectors at the end of the phone to advise anyway.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420829#Comment_118420829

But there are only 2 dots, isn't an ellipsis 3 dots?

Hang on and I'll ring my local inspector to seek clarity 😁

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420863#Comment_118420863

Good idea! Don't want all the expertise lying idle.

Working class heroes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420710#Comment_118420710

Oh the irony.....

Bobtheman

Norma kicked it to the schools. I would have thought it prudent to delay a week because the next week in school will be largely pointless. Majority of kids and perhaps teachers won't be in.

But PR is everything!

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118421191#Comment_118421191

Has there been any word on who should be isolating and when? Was that revised at all? Or are we just following the same guidance as the rest of the country?

I know some principals have been in touch with their staff to see who is going to be out tomorrow but haven't heard anything from my own.

rainbowtrout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118421543#Comment_118421543

I know that close to a quarter of teachers in my school will be out tomorrow who have tested positive / close contact, awaiting PCR etc. We are opening as it stands.....

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420500#Comment_118420500

She also said something about additionality ! Is that even a word ?

joe40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118421191#Comment_118421191

I had a full day today teaching in a secondary school in the North. High covid levels but vast majority of teachers and pupils present. I covered significant amount of work with GCSE and A-level classes so it was far from a "largely pointless" day. It is very difficult to get specs covered and time is tight.

Schools should open tomorrow, 2 days off is not insignificant.

combat14

this is what they are opening schools tomorrow enough said...

No rule change for close contacts as Taoiseach warns of 'accelerating exponential growth'

https://www.thejournal.ie/cabinet-ireland-omicron-5646264-Jan2022/

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422108#Comment_118422108

Wow. Let's see how that this goes so.

Did any of ye see this? 🤣

https://www.change.org/p/people-in-ireland-all-tds-who-are-qualified-teachers-to-go-teach-starting-thursday-6th-jan?recruiter=false&recruited_by_id=559ed0c0-6d9c-11ec-a877-313363842c42

Newbie20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420193#Comment_118420193

Thanks for the reply. I contacted school who were as unsure as I was. Got onto the HSE helpline who told me as my sibling hasn’t had a PCR, I am not a close contact and to work away as normal.

Its laughable really, I’m only not deemed to not be a close contact because my sibling can’t get a PCR to “prove” he’s positive (has had numerous positive antigens!). Having said all that I’m glad to be able to go work and I’ve had a few negative antigens but it just makes a further mockery of the whole “guidelines”

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422189#Comment_118422189

If you had a positive antigen they'd be saying to stay at home though, is that right?

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422189#Comment_118422189

Watch the days on this, I had symptoms before I was positive on the antigens, and I got it off someone who'd had a negative antigen test that morning.

I assume we will all have had it by midterm nearly at this rate! If your healthy and vaccinated, nearly as well to have it over with.

Newbie20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422356#Comment_118422356

I presume they would yeah. It’s just funny that if my sibling had been able to get a PCR to back up his positive antigen, I’d be deemed a close contact but because they can’t provide enough PCRs I’m not!

Newbie20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422516#Comment_118422516

I actually had it in the summer and had no symptoms so not too bothered myself about it tbh. It’s just having very small children I wouldn’t like to pass it onto them if possible.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422683#Comment_118422683

Oh yeah, completely. This is going to be their way of exempting us (by us I mean the workforce, not teachers) from the close contact rule without actually doing it.

I wouldn't be surprised if we are told in a few days that PCRs are only going to be required for scenarios such as going into hospitals/spaces where there are medically vulnerable.

combat14

meanwhile school system in chicago teethers on brink as teachers walk out after 2 days back while management refuse to safely facilitate online learning as it will inconvenience working parents who struggle with childminding during pandemic

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/school-classes-cancelled-in-chicago-amid-clash-between-officials-and-teaching-unions-1.4769201