Schools to close again.. Covid

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446169#Comment_118446169

Trouble is. In a normal class of 30 they'd go red in about 15 minutes.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446529#Comment_118446529

Yep. Whether the windows are open or not.

School policy is just to open windows and if it stays red well.....

timmymagoo

Morning

Let's get out there and make a difference

A good education is priceless and allows upwardly mobility

I think the position of teacher is a very important job and a good teacher has the power to change a students life and even to save lives

If I was teacher and had to enter a classroom with 30 children knowing most of those children will get the virus and not really be affected but the chances are high the teachers also get it and may be seriously ill or bring it home to loved ones,I don't know how I would handle it

Even the loss of taste and smell is worrying as that means its in your central nervous system and there may be health issues in the future

But air borne viruses cannot be stopped , if you try and limit them by restrictions on movement and masks the virus will mutate so it will spread quicker

Herd immunity is and was the only way forward, witness whats happening now

Herd immunity is way more effective than any jabs

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447639#Comment_118447639

And herd immunity can be best achieved via vaccines in a game of large numbers which is what we are dealing with here. Read serious medical research.

Comer1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447639#Comment_118447639

You lost me at "Let's go out there and make a difference"

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447639#Comment_118447639

Why would masks make it mutate faster, what effect do they have on the molecular clock?

timmymagoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118449175#Comment_118449175

Masks reduce transmission and viruses mutate to adapt to the environment and to mor more effectively between hosts

Not just masks but all efforts to stop transmission means the virus will mutate to adapt

timmymagoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447694#Comment_118447694

You.are wrong and that is a fact

You protect the vulnerable and let Herd immunity sort out the rest

That is how all air borne viruses have been dealt with up to covid in 2020

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118449482#Comment_118449482

What? There is a molecular clock in all organisms, they mutate at a particular rate. Viruses have no feelings, never minds about a mask. Bottlenecks can cause a change in a population but the mutation rate is still the same, there is simply more death in the unadapted or unmutated population. This is very basic evolutionary theory. You seem to be confusing bottlenecks and mutation rates. A bottleneck can cause what looks like rapid evolution but if actually just aggressive selection, not the same thing at all.

Mutation rates can be altered by mutagen, agents like uv radiation, radioactive compounds ect. A mask is going to cause no change to any mutation rate, it will simple help prevent transmission. A mutation may arise that contravenes this (unlikely given there is a physical barrier in place, and all viruses have a minimum particle size) but it wasn't caused by the mask, its just takes advantage of the mask being there to be more successful. The virus will mutate regardless of masks being around or not. This is dangerous rhetoric.

timmymagoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118449541#Comment_118449541

Before we have this discussion what are you a teacher of or what science qualification do you have

I have degree in physics from limerick and I never worked in the field

SeanT123

some will be forced to close with so many teachers and subs off.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118449981#Comment_118449981

You are on a hiding to nothing Timmy....Am_Zarathustra is correct.

Your statement that masks make the virus mutate faster is the kind of thing one might find in a dedicated echo chamber. If you have those qualifications you say you have you should be able to put them to good use and do a little reading from credible sources.

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118449981#Comment_118449981

I would assume you have a fair idea that my degree (and more) is in this area. Biological sciences (I'm not going to be more specific, it would almost certainly identify me) and postgrad work also in this area.

But to be clear, if I didn't have a degree in this area it wouldn't make my explaination any less correct, science is funny like that.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118450094#Comment_118450094

Or a sci-fi blockbuster

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118449514#Comment_118449514

Jesus you'd want to tell that to the lads who developed the measles and mumps vaccine........other highly contagious airborne viruses we got to herd immunity with using vaccines........

Although with people like you spreading incorrect rhetoric like that I can see why we are getting breakthrough cases in communities with low vaccination rates now

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118451213#Comment_118451213

There are times I'd love a laughing emoji instead of a thanks 🤣🤣

Icyseanfitz

Is herd immunity even an actual possibility with a corona virus? Won't it just keep changing and evolving near indefinitely so long as it can transmit? (Hopefully evolving to something much the same as the common cold)

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118451277#Comment_118451277

This is hard to actually tease out. So rhinoviruses (cause a nice proportion of colds) and influenza don't proofread their own RNA (blueprints).....so they copy and copy but never really check the copy is right! It's like Chinese whispers and you get high rates of viable mutations (most mistakes are lethal, in most organism if they occur in genes). COVID 19 does have a proofreading ability, it does a quick pass over the copied RNA to make sure it looks right. This is generally a good thing if your deleveping therapeutics. It may stay roughly the same, or enough the same that vaccines and our own immunity could be enough.

There are some interesting theories on the 1890 pandemic cold was caused by a form of alphacoronavirus that is now endemic and causes a mild cold. It actually looks an awful lot like our current pandemic, symptomatically anyway. I'd actually be very optimistic now with the new data coming out but time will be the real tester of most of these theories. Though it does show the importance of keeping accurate historical records.

Bananaleaf

The sooner close contacts without symptoms are able to come back to work the better tbh. This is becoming unworkable and we are days away from having to ask some year groups to remain home. I am also finding it REALLY hard to maintain a work/life balance when there are so many isolating students to cater to as well. School internet ridiculously unreliable so live stream to them is not an option so I am here every evening doing pre-recorded explanations of what we will do in class the next day to have ready to send to them each morning.

In fairness, the kids are delighted with it and can't thank me enough - they truly are learning from home - but I can't keep doing this - it's crazy. I know someone will find fault with me for saying this, but I do have a life and a hobby and my doggies outside of work and I need to make time for them too.

Morris Garren

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118449514#Comment_118449514

You tell 'em Boris! Lets get it done!

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118464289#Comment_118464289

Actually for us, today was basically a normal day. Numbers near normal, very few staff out. Looks like this has blown through our school on the run up to Christmas, during the holidays (was sad the amount of kids telling me they had to isolate for the holidays) and had it the week we came back.

To me, the unofficial strategy seems to be let omicron just take everyone and be done with it.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469352#Comment_118469352

Wow, that's brilliant. We, on the other hand, are at crisis point and it looks like it's getting worse, not better for us. Which is strange, because for a school of our size, throughout the whole pandemic we had very few cases at all! I'm assuming the vast majority of our absences are close contacts so things bound to calm down hopefully.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469554#Comment_118469554

Would it not be better at this stsgr for your school to shut and teach online?

That way the positive kids who are well enough to hh and the self isolating students and staff could work away?

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469670#Comment_118469670

We are an ETB. Thou shalt not close. Having said that I know principal was meeting them today because we are truckin' through the S&S so I think the TYs may be going from Monday - I guess it depends on how many staff are positive and how many are isolating without symptoms. I assume my principal knows this so we will hear if any decision has been made tomorrow

History Queen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118470309#Comment_118470309

Gosh that sounds like a tough environment to work in. Our experience is much like Valeyards, most staff and students are back with a couple of kids missing from most classes and a few staff still out but nothing we can't manage. Hope things improve for ye soon.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118470519#Comment_118470519

Thank you History Queen. Staff morale is good so work remains a nice place to be. Our principal and deputies are really great. It's just the general exhaustion and trying to fit everything else in the day in - it can't go on. And with new close contact rules, I suppose it won't.

gaiscioch

Anybody have the latest/most relevant guidelines for teachers who get Covid?

In particular, if a second-level teacher tests positive, how many days before he/she can return to the classroom? Also, if the result is from a self-administered positive antigen test, how do we get this "confirmed"/medical cert or whatever so that we are covered for the school absence?

Bobtheman

Your principal should know all the above

km79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118590859#Comment_118590859

It’s the HSE who should advise on this . The principal won’t know and can’t ask about an individuals vaccination status. It is also dependant on age if it’s an antigen test. Again the principal can’t ask this .

Its fairly clear on hse website . They do it out step by step for the various scenarios.

km79

Hse website goes through every possible scenario

it’s the same for teachers as any other person really

Here is the section on a positive antigen test

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/covid19/testing/covid-19-antigen-test-results/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjtbO4oS79QIVg-7tCh1sughnEAAYASAAEgLJ2_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Latest info note for schools

https://assets.gov.ie/215013/2b6709ff-782d-420a-8c94-5569e667e7e6.pdf

Appendix A shows what’s needed as proof

rainbowtrout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589860#Comment_118589860

It's posted here.

https://www.tui.ie/news/information-note-000222-covid-special-leave-with-pay-arrangements-.14395.html

rainbowtrout

Main points:

• COVID-19 Leave with Pay remains available for someone who displays COVID-19 symptoms, receives a positive PCR test or receives a positive antigen test result (where acceptable)
• COVID-19 Leave with Pay is now set at a maximum of 10 days (was 28 days previously).
• Where the employee is medically unfit for work after the 10 day period, the terms and conditions of the Sick Leave Scheme will apply. New changes take effect from 7th February 2022
• For an employee who commenced COVID-19 Special Leave with Pay prior to 7th February, the maximum limit of 28 days still applies.
• Restricted Movement Leave as set out in Paragraph 3 of Information Note 001/2022 still applies

gaiscioch

Thanks, Ken and Rainbow.

First, it would seem from those that "Day Zero", the day you get diagnosed, is followed by 7 full days, or have I misunderstood that? ["You should self-isolate (stay in your room) as soon as you notice symptoms of COVID-19 or get a positive COVID-19 test result. Either of these are considered day zero when you’re counting your days of self-isolation."]

Second, in the sample scenarios [Information Note TC 0002.2022 COVID SLWP] we have this: "Scenario 3 On 6th February 2022, employee is recorded as on Day 1 of Special Leave With Pay because they tested positive for COVID-19. The maximum Special Leave With Pay entitlement for this employee is 28 consecutive days, in line with paragraph 2.4 of Circular 0042/2021. Subject to specific criteria, there is extended entitlement to Special Leave with Pay beyond 28 days in line with paragraph 2.5 of Circular 0042/2021."

Now, 6 February/yesterday was a Sunday. Can a Sunday be considered "Day 1 of Special Leave with Pay"? And if the day of the positive diagnosis is "Day Zero", surely today, Monday, is Day 1? Actually, I think Scenario 5 answers this (but I'm open to correction): "Scenario 5 On 5th February 2022, employee tested positive for COVID-19 but it was not recorded on the OLCS/ETB system until 7th February or after. The maximum Special Leave With Pay entitlement for this employee is 28 consecutive days, in line with paragraph 2.4 of Circular 0042/2021. Subject to specific criteria, there is extended entitlement to Special Leave with Pay beyond 28 days in line with paragraph 2.5 of Circular 0042/2021."

Would this imply if one got a Covid 19 diagnosis yesterday, Sunday, that they can get 28 days paid leave even if it's only entered into the system by the school today, your first day off work?

As for evidence, it seems " COVID-19: Special Leave With Pay: Employee aged 39 years or under - Evidence of positive COVID-19 antigen test result (including test date) provided (HSE confirmation of employee’s record on HSE portal is acceptable)". That's the answer I needed. However, out of interest why do they have it divided into employees under 39, and employees over 40?

byhookorbycrook

Important to know that weekend days and midterms/holidays/ are also counted as work days, for the purpose of sick leave, for those who might not know.

rainbowtrout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118597218#Comment_118597218

Yes, that's my reading of it too.

In the same sense that if you broke your leg on Sunday, and were given a cert for 6 weeks, it might be dated from the Sunday and subsequent weekends would be included in your sick leave.

I would imagine also it had to be included as a specific scenario because there will be teachers who tested positive over the weekend, notified their schools that they wouldn't be in on Monday and if some of them end up out sick for longer than 10 days, it would be in their interests for it to count as Covid leave rather than sick leave.

A date has to be set from the new regulations so there has to be a cut off somewhere.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166199#Comment_118166199

Third post on the thread. As predicted, schools didn't closed.