Vegan diet

mariaalice

Can you live on a vegan diet with products only grown in Ireland and the UK and without mono planting developing? I am sure we wouldn't starve but could it be tasty and interesting.

Veganism might be as bad for the planet as meat-eating it leads to huge mono planting of cashew nuts, almonds, coconuts, and the like.

Apparently, the best would be cutting meat-eating by 75% and animals raised in a traditional manner and the end of commercial farming.

EmmetSpiceland

Nearly never won the race.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168648#Comment_118168648

The grammar nazis never given up!

_Brian

Veganism is just an extended form of eating disorder similar to bulimia or the like. It’s not normal or natural amd certainly no better for the human or planet than eating a fully rounded diet encompassing foods from all food groups.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168712#Comment_118168712

Dont agree with that it's a bit faddy maybe, and a lot of people have ethical issues with the production of meat for human consumption.

Do not think I could personally survive any vegan diet. I would not project that to dissing the diet itself. It just would not work for me. If I had to then further limit myself to crops and products producible in the UK or Ireland - then all bets are off. Many of the mono crops you mention are not as sustainable (if at all) on Irish and UK soil.

I spent a few years working on my diet looking for the one for me. I went through every diet and fad you have heard of and probably some you have not. HCLF, HFLC, veggie, meat only, paleo, everything in between.

I finally found a way of eating for me that maximises my energy fitness and general feeling well - and as I said in another thread I have not been ill for as long as I can currently remember. I can not even remember my last sniffly nose cold let alone any actual illness.

So no plans to change now :) Currently the diet I am on works for me.

cnocbui

An Australian academic and her partner wanted to prove how fit and healthy a person could be on a vegan diet, by climbing Mt Everest. She died, and her husband nearly did. https://www.9news.com.au/national/aussie-lecturer-dead-as-everest-claims-first-victims-of-the-season/0708aa7f-2108-4fb3-8ad0-b7afe6280680

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168899#Comment_118168899

He's a farmer, they hate anything to do with veganism as they're worried about losing money, simple as that - it's all money money money with that lot. Also people in rural areas like farmers are more likely to be narrow minded due to the lack of exposure to different kinds of people, and would be weary of anything different.

Wabbit Ears

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168712#Comment_118168712

And there it is, the absolute stupidest thing ive read on the internet this week, its only Monday!! I'm done for the week I think... jesus fcuking christ on a bike.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169019#Comment_118169019

So vegans eat stuff that isn't produced by farmers?

StupidLikeAFox

Wouldn't fancy surviving on some of the vegan friendly products on the market. A lot of ultra processed crap (vegan cheese, meat etc), might be vegan friendly but not particularly healthy I'd imagine

StupidLikeAFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169241#Comment_118169241

Full disclosure - I was eating a packet of crisps when I posted this

seamus

The short answer to the OP is, yes.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168993#Comment_118168993

at least no non-vegans have ever died trying to climb everest.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169094#Comment_118169094

That’s funny, I don’t “notice” you at all.

The One Doctor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169019#Comment_118169019

That's dumb, we all depend on farmers... otherwise we'd all die. Of course they're interested in money, they don't grow crops and rear animals out of the goodness of their hearts. Farming is a tight margin business, they need every advantage they can get.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168712#Comment_118168712

So half if not more of the population of India have an eating disorder. Nice one mate. Well played.

Irish_wolf

I'd say the type of vegan diet you could live on eating purely home grown foods would be fairly miserable and repetitive and would like need additional supplements to meet all your nutritional needs. Countries that culturally have low meat diets tend to be in areas that have great growing conditions and as such they can eat a varied and healthy diet of different nuts, beans, fruits, leafy greens etc.

You can of course be healthy and strong and also be vegan in much the same way you can be an unhealthy slob on a 'traditional' diet, there are countless examples of both. Anyone who thinks you cant be healthy as a vegan is deluded in my opinion, just like anyone who thinks eating any kind of animal by-product regardless of the method by which it is obtained is somehow bad for you is also deluded.

To be fair the science is still out on veganism for something like bodybuilding (Although there are plenty of examples of such) as these people typically have to supplement their diet with vitamin and mineral supplements in order to maintain their health, the origins of which are not always the most transparent.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169261#Comment_118169261

yes we could feed ourselves or yes we could feed ourselves and it would be tasty and interesting?.

Seaweed is edible bur there is a difference between palatable and edible.

Freddie Mcinerney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169228#Comment_118169228

Bord Bia seems to think so.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Yeah, because vegans only eat seaweed...

-------

There's a documetnary on Netflix called the Game Changers* - have a watch of that and then come back and tell me you can't live healthily on a plant-based diet.

*Except you won't, will you?

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168899#Comment_118168899

But it’s not just meat. Can attention seekers, sorry vegans eat eggs or honey?

magicbastarder

if we're going to get into lazy stereotypes, can i opine that men with barbecues are way more performative in their food choices and (lack of) cooking skills than vegans are?

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169424#Comment_118169424

I'd say it's a healthy diet as long as you are careful, it's just there is a lot of ignoring of the downside monoculture of certain food products because of the rise in plant-based diets.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169435#Comment_118169435

Depends on the vegan. There is no clear definition that I know of - less so among individual vegans themselves. I have seen people define as vegan who simple swore off direct animal products. So they would be happy with honey but not eggs for example. But others will not touch the honey.

But I have also seen the more extreme type who will attempt to avoid more indirect products too - such as where animals were used in the production of something. So not only would they not touch the honey - they would avoid crops where the bees were pressed in any way by humans into being pollinators on their behalf.

I spoke with one therefore who was actually concerned about the production of carrots. If a workhorse or similar beast of burden was used to till the land the seeds were sown in - this person could not eat the carrots. If it was tilled by hand or by tractor - it was ok. Though their eyes crossed over a bit when I asked if it was a concern depending on what fuel the tractor used - like a bio fuel compared to a fossil fuel. I think it came as a question that they had not considered before until that very moment.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169459#Comment_118169459

Well, any diet requires a bit of research in order to be heathy and environmentally friednly.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169019#Comment_118169019

Ahhhh news flash everything you eat is grown by a farmer 🙄🙄🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169579#Comment_118169579

Does this depend on the definition of "farmer" you are using?

The fish I catch and eat - the rabbit I trap and eat - and the mushrooms I find and pick and eat - were not grown by any farmer. At least not by any definition of the word I know of.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169228#Comment_118169228

not by the exclusively beef/dairy vegan hating farmers that frequent boards.ie, no

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169589#Comment_118169589

Could be argued that in those cases you are effectively the farmer yourself, but yeah - depends on the definition.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169629#Comment_118169629

The meat “lobby“ has a strong presence on the site alright, T.

If you dare try to suggest that, cheap, packet ham is anything other than the finest cuts, carved out by grandad Donal in his back shed, as opposed to the reclaimed “meat slurry”, it actually is you’ll be met with aggressive opposition.

”Big Meat” doesn’t want you to know that you get what you pay for but you can’t really complain that you’re chowing down on eyelids, connective tissue and scrotum when you’re paying a couple of euro.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169727#Comment_118169727

MMMMM...... Connective scrotum.... :)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169684#Comment_118169684

I am curious to know which definition though :) I just checked a few dictionaries and none of them fit the usage here.

I think in one case I would be called a hunter - and in another a forager. I can not find any definition that would call me a "farmer" in those cases.

If you guys all have a dictionary I don't I am jealous :) I collect them :)

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169589#Comment_118169589

Pretty cool there. I guess you would be known as a forager... Possibly the farmer but I wouldn't think so. I would expect if it's done on any private lands you would be strictly called a poacher .I wouldn't call it poaching for most of what you've mentioned as most of this stuff is likely to go to waste. The fishing I presume you have a license so your probably defined under the department of agriculture. But probably not under the broad church of the farmer

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169766#Comment_118169766

Farming dictionaries, then, are we?! For me hunter, gatherer and farmer are in the same category: the cultivation of sustenance. The poster's point being that very little fo the food we eat comes from our own resources. I'g argue you dont live on fish and mushrooms alone yourself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169787#Comment_118169787

If my dictionaries are anything to go by you are only called a farmer if you are specifically cultivating some kind of food on a particular fixed piece of land. So if you are moving around killing animals you are a hunter. If you are walking into forests and picking wild mushrooms you'd be a forager.

As for fishing - not all fishing in Ireland requires a license actually. So you can do that wild too. Personal sea fishing is generally license free for example. River fishing I think - I might be out of date here - depends on specifically what you are fishing. Trout for example is license free? Not 100% sure I am current there! Salmon and sea trout have specific exceptions here too.

So really it comes down to what you fish and where I think.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169835#Comment_118169835

Heheheh cute :) I have the image of planting dictionary seeds and watching them grow in my head now. Not knowing if you are growing a webster or a collins.

Oh that they are in the same "category" is a different conversation for sure. But I was responding to the user who said that "everything" you eat was "grown by a farmer" and I think that this claim might be somewhat dubious.

If they had said "Everything you eat was put on your plate by someone in the same general category in which you find the word farmer" I might not have responded at all :) Even then I am not sure "gatherers" can be said to be "cultivating" anything. So I am not sure the category fits either.

Just me being a little bit of a linguistic pedant really :) Hehe being honest with myself - I probably would not even have replied had they not started the post with "newsflash".

green daries

As an aside does rabbit taste good how do you prefer to cook it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169884#Comment_118169884

Depends how I kill it - or trap it. Do I fatten it up under captivity before turning it into food - or insta kill? And so on.

Also depends what is growing / going on my garden at the time too. Some herbs and veg just beg for rabbit to be turned into something in the soups category.

You can cook it fast too but generally its recommended to joint it and vary cooking times depending on which part you cook and how. Some parts are better roasted than fried and vice versa.

As for taste - depends how you cook it too - but generally its like a dryer gamier form of chicken with a slightly deeper flavour kind of in the same way hogget is slightly dryer but with a deeper flavor profile than lamb.

I was very rececntly bow hunting with a friend in the US. I think I could take to getting my meat that way if I could. But alas Ireland afford a lot less possibility - legal or otherwise - to do that. But I do source my meat as ethically as I can in Ireland even when that means spending a lot more.

Dial Hard

I'm neither vegan nor vegetarian but I will never, ever understand how triggered some people are merely by discussion of it.

Yeah, some vegans are borderline fanatical, but they're easily ignored. On the whole, I think it's a pretty commendable decision to make and something I know I could never do. I eat local, seasonal and as high-welfare as possible. I also used to be an insufferable snob about people who eat non free-range chicken, eggs etc. But then I realised that not everyone has the privilege of making those choices. If I was on a budget and had to choose between feeding my family a battery chicken or a few frozen pizzas, I'd choose the chicken.

Verganism certainly isn't a panacea for the world's troubles. But there's no doubting that a reduction in meat (particularly beef) consumption in developed countries would be a great help.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058218037/vegan-diet

It's possible but I think it might be a bit boring. I'm an omnivore and eat pretty much everything but I am fascinated and respectful of vegetarians and vegans. As an omnivore I could easily have a great diet (not the healthiest) but certainly varied and delicious from products sourced solely in Ireland and the UK. Fry-ups, Sunday roasts, cod and haddock pies, bangers and mash, porridge, berries and yoghurt, summer salads, cheddar on toast or crackers with milky tea....actually BOLLOCKS...scratch the tea AND the coffee. Can't grow that in these islands AFAIK. Salt and pepper...hmm. There's no shortage of salt here but I think we have to import pepper from far afield.

So getting back to the vegan thing, In Ireland (I'm open to correction) you'd have no problem with all the root vegetables and greens and tubers such as carrots, turnips, parsnips, beetroot, cabbage, lettuce, kale, brocolli, green beans, peas, spuds, radishes, and all the onion family like obviously onions, leeks, scallions, garlic, chives, and the grains like oats, barley, wheat, corn and all the fruit like apples, berries, rhubarb, plums, pumpkin, tomatoes, etc. But I think I would pine (no pun intended) for nuts, and things like lentils and rice and things like chickpeas and various beans like kidney beans and fava beans and such which I thing need warmer climes to grow. I'd miss exotic fruits too like citrus fruits, oranges, lemons, grapefruits, and others like bananas, pomegranites, kiwi fruit, melons. I'd miss all the spices too like turmeric, garam massala, paprika.

I can live without coffee....but the TAE....don't take that away from me.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169684#Comment_118169684

Nah, farming is the cultivation of plants and animals, You don't "farm" a wild berry that grows by its merry self in the forest. You don't "farm" a stream that you take a drink of water from.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170228#Comment_118170228

I refer the honourable gentleperson to the answer I gave a few minutes earlier :)

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169294#Comment_118169294

See stuff like this annoys me, they could have climbed to the moon, it doesn't prove anything, one doesn't make rules around outliers. Same applies to vegetation bodybuilders for example.

The lack of an honest conversation also annoys me. I could never wrap my head around how quinoa and ( that old classic, the) avocado shipped from around the world were more climate friendly than beef reared in my own county. Found out recently they don't factor shipping emissions with the food!

So yea I'm a meat eater normal person and am defending my position. Having said that I think people eat to much meat and it's stupidly cheap, I hate the race to the bottom when it comes to food. A whole chicken for €3.50? Something wrong there. Pigs get a brutal time of it to. I eat vegetarian a few times a week and try to buy quality over quantity when I am buying meat.

We're also very removed from our food. Most people wouldn't know how to section up a chicken. And hands up who could pop into a field, shoot a rabbit and prepare it for dinner?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170447#Comment_118170447

Shipping has very little impact on the footprint of food, but if you're worried about the impact of shipping food around the world you wont be happy to hear 90% of our beef and dairy is exported worldwide - https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food

Also, given we are a net importer of food and vegans make up a tiny percentage of people in Ireland, I would lay the blame on carnivores eating imported avocados and quinoa!

magicbastarder

The lack of an honest conversation also annoys me. I could never wrap my head around how quinoa and ( that old classic, the) avocado shipped from around the world were more climate friendly than beef reared in my own county. Found out recently they don't factor shipping emissions with the food!

as far as i understand, the way the food is shipped is important too; a tomato grown in spain probably has a smaller carbon footprint than one grown down the road, because the transport element of the equation is lower than the requirement to heat the greenhouse in ireland.

bananas are not too bad because they're picked unripe and put on a boat and ripen en route. according to this calculator, one avocado is responsible for approx 5-6 times as much CO2 as one banana:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46459714

magicbastarder

anyway, most of the (few enough) people i know who are vegan - which includes the local parish priest* who's a neighbour, do it for primarily animal welfare reasons and secondarily for broader environmental concerns. and that's an interesting one to weigh. if you buy say a frozen chicken, and compare it to the equivalent weight of beef, the chicken will be a better option environmentally, but if it's irish sourced, will almost certainly have had a worse life than the beef cow. and the chicken represents an entire life, whereas the beef will only represent a percent or two of the animal life, so not an easy calculation.

*confirmed with someone else who had also wondered how can a catholic priest be vegan and partake of the body and blood of jesus; apparently as it's down to the suffering or exploitation of animals, having communion at catholic mass does not count.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170727#Comment_118170727

It's the consent element - if the animal (or supernatural being of higher consciousness) consents to the comsumption, it's allowed.

magicbastarder

someone actually decided that if an animal consents to being eaten, that's allowed?

bb1234567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169241#Comment_118169241

And? Who said you had to survive on that if you became vegan? Are you implying meat products are somehow less processed, most meat products peple eat are highly processed, fish fingers, chicken nuggets, spare ribs, chicken wings etc..

@Thelonious Monk

We produce a lot of our own food and I think in this climate it would be very difficult. You could definatly have spuds for the year as I now do and my father grew. Pumpkins are also great keepers. Protein is your difficulty. You’d need pulses and nuts, Lots of them. Milk is much easier as a protein source. Plenty of vegetarian farmers out there too @Thelonious Monk and growing veg is hard work. The cow converting grass to milk is a lot less with the added bonus of the calf to sell or grow on to put in the freezer and manure for your veggies. All interconected like life.

There is a lady in North Kerry who eats local every September. Great idea.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/a-month-eating-only-irish-food-pricey-time-consuming-boring-1.4401218

I have veg for the year. At the moment potatoes, pumpkins, marrows, celery, red cabbage, kale, apples and beetroot. I depend on animals for protein and soil fertility. Hens are great for eggs and occasionally meat. My husband hunts and fishes for the table. We have venison and fish in the freezer. To grow my veg my neighbours cow manure is essential for soil fertility. I also gather seaweed for the micronutrients.

I buy pork and sometimes beef and lamb. I have a few acres so next year I’m hoping to get some pigs.

I also buy irish organic milk and irish grown organic food for the hens as well. A friend of mine is a beekeeper so we swap venison for honey.

People really value getting eggs as a gift kale less so.

A lot of vegan food in the shops seems highly processed with tonnes of food miles. Also a lot is not organicly certified so lots of pesticide/ insecticide application i’d assume especially if its from outside the EU.

I’ve have good vegan food in restaurants though and meals cooked by a friend from scratch. Coconut milk seemed a key part of the diet and it was fairly repetitive.

If you want to eat local I wouldn’t limit the food groups, eat whats available in season.

@Dial Hard

@Dial Hard Totally agree with your sentiments.