Vegan diet

@bb1234567

@bb1234567Most processed food is generally shite but people are often short of time and / or cooking skills. Real food meat, veg, dried pulses is better. I think you might have hit the nail on the head there. People are probably eating too much processed food. Unlikely to be high quality food or good for the planet ...🤔

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170447#Comment_118170447

Let's talk about all the irish meat and produce shipped around the world? farmers get supplemented to produce cheap food, take away these supplements and you'll soon see you won't be able to buy a chicken for 3.50, which I believe won't be a bad thing, there's a lot of bad farmers who wouldn't be farming but for payments

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172977#Comment_118172977

We import millions of tonnes of soy and maize from the Americas to feed our farmed animals that are then exported and you still get this ridiculous avocados and quinoa argument from the usual idiots, even though 99% of the imported avocados are being eaten by carnivores.

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169424#Comment_118169424

A great documentary, and something that finally made up my mind about eating red meat, I wouldn't classify myself as vegetarian but have replaced a lot of my diet with veg and salads, it's amazing how creative you can get with vegetarian dishes, i eat chicken still but have cut out 95% of red meat.

On a side note another documentary that put me off eating fish is seaspiracy, worth a watch if people are wondering about the real harm industrial fishing is doing to our world

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172981#Comment_118172981

Exactly, the cheap food debate only seems to go 1 way I.E. the public want cheap food so we the farmer have no choice but to produce it, ignoring the fact that that most cereals are grown for animal consumption to turn it into meat for human consumption, it seems a farmers biggest customer is themselves, I'm not getting at farmers either as I realise they're just part of a bigger industrial machine they've no way of changing, but the will to change isn't there simply because they're being subsidised to keep the status quo

Andrea B.

If pigs were plants, I'ld be vegetarian.

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170495#Comment_118170495

Its a little misleading to say 90% of our beef is shipped worldwide since the vast majority is sold into Europe, almost half of the export is to the UK. Only 16% in 2020 went further than the UK and Europe. It's amazing how those who call all the farmers of boards.ie narrow minded push their ant-farmer views non stop using carefully selected statistics.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173026#Comment_118173026

so 90% is exported, how about that? it's you lot who always bang on about imported avocados yet have no problem sending baby powder to China or importing animal feed from all around the world

@Still stihl waters 3

@Still stihl waters 3 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gapKKRTEMg8

A documentary worth watching 🐓 regarding hens.

Irish raised beef is a very different product to what you were watching in those american documentaries

https://www.farmingfornature.ie/

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173057#Comment_118173057

Us lot? you've a lot of contempt for farmers here and know nothing about us other than grabbing the headline figures that suit your love of farmer bashing.

No need for imported feeds on this farm or many other farms in this country. I absolutely do have issue with feeds imported from certain regions.

What about Avocados?

Don't produce milk, so pretty sure I'm not sending any baby formula to China, I doubt 90% of Irish milk is going their either.

How many million tonnes of animal feed are imported from the Americas? and what animals are fed from it, seems a disproportionate amount is constantly blamed on cattle farms from you lot.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173172#Comment_118173172

I just hold in contempt the views farmers have of people who choose not to eat meat. An earlier farmer on this thread was saying it's a mental illness ffs. I don't know why you lot feel so threatened all the time, even with the climate change stuff announced recently, they're leaving Ag alone, it's a sacred cow that no politician will touch, so why you all get so worked up about a tiny percentage of people who choose not to eat meat/dairy is beyond me.

I know millions of tonnes of feed are imported for animals, maybe you don't use it, but a lot do, so it's a bit rich when we hear people going on about imported avocados and quinoa given our animals are fed imported food too. I'm pretty sure most of it is fed to pigs and chickens but there are products like weanling crunch etc sold in Ireland that contain soy that is fed to cattle.

Here's where animal feed is currently coming from into Ireland

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173190#Comment_118173190

An earlier farmer poster had a view..... therefore the views of farmers........................ you lot................. seems fair

A list of countries, with no figures and what animals, but lets just blame all farmers, or maybe just the beef farmers as they are easy targets.

It is about 5 million tonnes between all of those countries, with a large amount coming from our Europeen neighbours and the UK and includes all animals including pets.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173244#Comment_118173244

My point is that it's unfair that vegetarians and vegans are called out for eating imported fruit and vegetables, when people who eat meat are doing the same thing as most of Ireland's fruit and veg are imported anyway, and it's likely the meat they eat has been fed imported food too.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172949#Comment_118172949

i think i worked out once that what is considered a reasonably achievable but high output for a hazelnut farm in the southeast of england, produces 6 times the calories per hectare per year that an average beef farm does in ireland (and i halved the output of the hazelnut farm because it was not clear whether they were referring to shelled or unshelled nuts - i assume they'd been shelled but didn't want to make that assumption concrete)

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173256#Comment_118173256

I have no particular issue with that point or with vegetarians and vegans, maybe you should have just said that instead of the usual misuse of statistics.

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics"

I would love to see Europe place restrictions on imports/exports from certain regions which produce animal feeds and equally certain ingredients for human consumption/cosmetic/industrial use but instead they are more likely to strike trade deals which impact local producers of food not to mention the global carbon footprint.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173380#Comment_118173380

Maybe you have no particular issue, but if you've seen any discussion on veganism on this site, even on the vegan forum, you'll see it's usually invaded by farmers with a chip on their shoulder against vegans. If you're not in that camp then I apologise.

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173062#Comment_118173062

I was referencing the documentary called game changer which is about the benefits of a vegetarian diet, I have no issue with the way beef is farmed in Ireland or anyone that eats it, its simply a choice I've made for myself

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173391#Comment_118173391

Can't say I've never joined in a conversation, but never to attack vegans or vegetarians, just to question misinformation spread by a few vegans with a chip on their shoulder even in the farming forum.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168712#Comment_118168712

I've seen toys been thrown out of a pram before, but Jesus your mammy must've brought you on a trolley dash in Smyths before this post...

@Still stihl waters 3

@Still stihl waters 3 Interesting, i’ll have a look

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169365#Comment_118169365

I would certainly say the vegan/vegatarian Indian diet is 100% better than the vegan/vegatarian diet westerners eat...all that meat substitute's and soya stuff...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173766#Comment_118173766

to be fair the qourn and that is not really vegan friendly in a lot of cases anyway. Qourn especially use egg white powder in a lot of products unless they're a explicitly marked Vegan.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173789#Comment_118173789

There is plenty of ultra processed stuff that is specifically vegan and it's the opinion of many dr's and researchers that ultra processed food(vegan or not) is not healthy and is in fact deleterious to health

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173714#Comment_118173714

By all means but take the entire thing with a very large pinch of salt - or a few slices of salty meat if you prefer. It's quite a while since I watched it but do not mistake it for an educational movie so much as a pro-veg propaganda doc.

And if you try a large diet change of that sort and it doesn't work for you - it's not your fault or failing. Propoganda pieces like that try to sell you the idea this is the "ideal" or "optimal" human diet - with little evidence, or worse, distorted evidence - which can leave people who try it and fail thinking somehow the fault must therefore lie with them rather than the diet. It really isn't.

It's quiet a dubious piece of work I think so keep the salt on hand and take from it what you think will benefit you personally and do not buy into the rest on face value.

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173766#Comment_118173766

probably, but they were talking nonsense from the beginning, over half of India is not vegan, there is not even that many vegans in the entire world let alone India, 20 - 30% of Indians may be vegetarian.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173812#Comment_118173812

Oh I know, a lot of vegatarian's and pescitarians in India...but they eat seasonal locally produced foods

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173802#Comment_118173802

absolutely, the thing is though, in my experience none of us are as healthy as we like to act online.

sure, processed food is bad for you, this is hardly news.. but while you point out how bad the vegan cheese alternative is are you at the same time eyeing your favourite cheddar on tesco? or eating your favourite crisps?

processed food is all around us in the supermarket. almost everything you buy is in some form or another processed, so to point out that vegan meat and dairy alternatives are processed as some sort of smoking gun against vegans is nonsense.

Like why is this even being discussed, I'd love to know. never seen such a shite given to what people eat.

imo there should be more vegans, so when I want ice cream and mcnuggets there's plentiful supply.

Everything is so extreme cutting down on meat is probably the way to go or being more mindful of what we are eating if I had my way I would ban the poor quality hot food counters in the like of central not ban them although but ban a lot the cheap muck they sell.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173847#Comment_118173847

Well I'm pretty much a carnivore 4 days a week and the other 3 I'm just keto... probably the healthiest I've ever been...

I indulge in a keto snack on the weekend(something I'm trying to get rid of tho)

Irish Beef, Irish Lamb, Irish Cheese, Irish Eggs, Irish Pork, Irish vegetables (when possible) & french Brie, that is my typically weekly eating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173876#Comment_118173876

I wasn't directing it at you specifically to be fair, I hope you didn't take any offence!

I guess my point being that if you were vegan, it's almost guaranteed someone's gonna come and point out how bad for you, the planet, etc it really is to eat that stuff, but cos its meat, eggs & cheese no ones likely to care.

which I guess to me is just childish at best.

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173825#Comment_118173825

"but they eat seasonal locally produced foods"

True, but India dose not rank well for food security or the global hunger index.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/aug/29/being-a-human-review-two-go-mad-in-the-stone-age

I am getting this book for Christmas. I personally think the idea that we lived better as hunter-gathers is nonsense but the book sound interesting.

The is a big difference between being a vegan in a historically culturally vegan culture and taking it up in Ireland or any western society.

trigger26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168941#Comment_118168941

Out of interest what diet did you land on in the end and what methods of result metrics did you use? At stage of starting to do something about diet

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173806#Comment_118173806

Worth a look and a lot of good stuff in it and they are spinning their own story but I like you have tried various diets over the years and settled on a largely plant based with very little red meat, and that's what works for me, although occasionally I will have a fry, in the normal week I'll have mainly veg and salad and chicken/tofu, it was after watching it I said I'd give it a go and it's worked out so far, you can pick and choose what you want from it but to call it dubious might be stretching it a bit, like all these sort of large scale pieces whether pro farming/pro veg it's a matter of using your brain and seeing the good points of them

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170727#Comment_118170727

Could you explain this whole life versus percentage of a life thing?

magicbastarder

not much to explain; if you are concerned about animal welfare, and want to eat X amount of meat - let's pick 100Kg, for the sake of it - you're talking about eating less than one cow or 100+ chickens. so you might choose to eat the beef as fewer animals have been killed in eating that meat.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118174051#Comment_118174051

In the end I threw out all the diets and made one of my own. And it was based one one single rule. Variety. I basically try to vary what I eat as much as I can to quite extremes. To the point that if I eat something for a given meal today (lets say some beef product for dinner) I will not have that thing, for that particular meal, for as long as possible again. That and I try to have as many colours as possible in any given meal. So it's kind of like a varied rainbow diet if you wanted to give it a name :)

So basically I am on all the diets. One meal might be low carb high fat. Another the opposite. Another vegan or vegetarian. Another heavily meat based. And so on and so one. Each meal as different as possible from the last and not repeated in that meal set for as long as possible.

That and I try to make everything from scratch and as unprocessed as possible. I make my own bread and pasta even rather than buy off a shelf. If I can hunt or catch my own meat I will. If I can grow something myself I will. The more preprepared or processed a food is the less I am inclined to buy it. But not to a fundamentalist level. I will still occasionally eat something highly processed. Just not as a norm. And once or twice a year me and the girls can be found buying an insane amount of food from KFC even and going totally primal on it until we are a mess of greasy faces and fingers unable to move on the floor :) So wanton debauchery indulgence is not off the table either :)

I figure my body after millions of years of evolution knows what it needs better than any blogger, podcaster, or book writer. So I simply give it as much variety as I can and let it work out the rest! And it seems to do ok.

As for measures of success - Mostly I just feel better. I literally can not remember the last time I was ill in any way. My exercise metrics are better. I perform better in my martial arts. I seem to perform better and longer in the bedroom (and I am informed certain things in the bedroom taste better too heheh) I am more motivated. Results from blood works with doctors all look better. I am more productive in work. My mental health demons rarely try to rear their ugly heads - though they are still there for sure.

Every personal (sometimes objective sometimes subjective) metric I can think to use - I seem to be better as a result. And I just feel more freedom with food. Rather than trying to limit my palate or options to fit some diet - I can be truly free and varied. Which since I love food so much is really important. I have seen people hit on diets that work for them - but food itself loses all joy and excitement and interest and becomes a chore. And I would hate that myself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118174240#Comment_118174240

I am not sure it is stretching it all that much at all. Now my memory of it is vague and forgive me if I am talking about a different show entirely - but arent they the ones that tried to say that it is the "optimal diet" especially for atheletes - and their "evidence" for this was to essentially point at gorillas and cows and say "sure look how buff and jacked they are!".

I mean that argument/anecdote/comparison is so wrong on so many levels they basically made a mockery of their entire agenda right there. Let alone some of the other crap they came out with. It was a really awful show. But I would not recommend anyone not watch it. Which as above I did not. I just suggested that anyone watching it take a serious amount of salt along to pinch for the ride. There is a baby in the bathwater there to save for sure. But the bath water is worth throwing away as it's well fetid.

I could re-watch it and break down some more of the awfulness they came out with in it but it would probably waste both our time if I did. I think there are plenty of people who broke down the issues with the show on google and other places. So I would be just reinventing the wheel. But there was a lot wrong with/in it.

But who cares really? Try every diet - including theirs - and see what works for you!

My only issue with agenda driven propaganda pieces like theirs really is that when they declare (falsely) that this diet is the human "ideal" or "optimal" - they are not only lying - but they risk that people who try it and it does not work for them - making such people feel like they are the problem or something is wrong with them. When something like diet is so personal and subjective and contextual that there really is no "ideal" except the "ideal" you find yourself that works for you. So if someone is under the false illusion that some diet is perfect/ideal/optimal and they try it and it makes them feel sick, tired, lethargic or worse - do we risk them thinking "What is wrong with ME that this is not working???".

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175314#Comment_118175314

And if people stopped eating meat then many animals would never be born so you would end up without a lot of partial lives.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175497#Comment_118175497

being born just to be killed an eaten is hardly something to look forward to though is it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175567#Comment_118175567

Even without humans though is that not the life arc facing many if not most of all animals on the planet?

Though in fairness the animals in question do not "look forward" to it at all do they? Do any of the sheep on a farmers land have any idea what the farmers ultimate agenda and plan is for their flesh? I doubt it myself. Animals seem quite good at living in the moment and are not seemingly all that preoccupied with death and the like as a concept :)

Contrast that to animals in the wild around predators - who live in a constant state of being alert in the hopes of avoiding that predator just awhile longer. If anything it is the wild meat we do not eat who have things that are hardly worth looking forward to.

To steal a joke from Daniel Dennett - what a wonderfully intelligent evolutionary move it was for sheep to acquire shepherds. For a small price in freedom and individual autonomy over husbandry they acquired constant food - protection - medical care - shelter - and more. :)

So I have always found the not getting to live argument (from the meat eaters) and the life arc argument (from the vegs) similarly unmoving and unconvincing. For me when I am sourcing meat it is the quality of life that meat had that is the motivator for me. Which is the primary motivation when I say I try to source my meat as ethically as possible. My Christmas goose each year lives with us for months getting treated like royalty before it gets offed for example :) But I have relationships with a butcher and some farmers who source or slaughter some pretty happy meat relative to some of the more mass produced options.

Thelonious Monk

Why would any type of being want to be born into a chicken or pig farm in Ireland, given the way they are treated? Would you want to be born into some kind of overcrowded inhumane extermination camp if that was the only taste of life you ever got?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175642#Comment_118175642

the fact you have to justify this is incredible to me. you're trying to justify that it's okay cos they don't know, but the fact is it's not okay.

whether they know about it or not is neither here nor there. what is the benefits to being born if you're pre marked with a kill date?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175497#Comment_118175497

not sure if serious.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175863#Comment_118175863

he is, they always come out with this stuff, like if we all went vegan we'd have to kill loads of animals etc. this is what you're up against.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175642#Comment_118175642

Someone once said about sheep, "If they could die twice,they would".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118176648#Comment_118176648

they bastards did it! all them! so what they did was went around the country (didn't take long as we all know 99% of Junkies are in Dublin anyway)

so what they did, the bastards, was went and gathered up all the Junkies and dropped them off in the city centre.

then something.. something.. something.. they own the place now?

I've been up and down to Dublin 100's of times and I lived there for half a year and can say confidently that poster has taken the stereotype about Dublin City and applied it as though it were fact.

I'm from a rural area where I grew up, live in a town now, but I'll never forget telling my folks I was going to Dublin to see the Mrs and having the mother reply: well, jesus make sure you don't get stabbed or something up there!

but tell me more about how vastly more educated and travelled rural folks are, please...

When somebody says "i am vegan", they really mean,"i am a boring self righteous twat"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175735#Comment_118175735

Pigs are born as pigs and chicken as chicken. Humans don't be born as anything other than humans.

They don't go wondering what's going to happen me tomorrow.

Ten of Swords

@RandomViewer do not post in this thread again

A number of off topic trolling posts about Dublin vs Rural have been deleted, let's not go there again in this thread