TFI Fare Revisions from 28th November 2022 Including New 90 Minute Fare.

davetherave

Would your last journey have ended in Skerries, Greystones, or Sallins? They are outside of the 90 minute zone, but are in Zone 5, which is a €3 fare.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122008#Comment_120122008

Starting point: Adamstown train station. End point: Skerries train station.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122095#Comment_120122095

Skerries is not within a TFI 90 minute boundaries. This explains why have you been charged over 2 Euro.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122135#Comment_120122135

Ah, OK. Maybe I can get off at Rush in future, if I want to make that one euro saving...

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122149#Comment_120122149

I would add a map here, but the ones I see when I search TFI 90 minute fare are in a poor quality. I think I read Rush & Lusk station is where the boundary ends (to save 1 Euro).

Edit: I davetherave added a map. That's great!

loyatemu

90 minute transfer still applies if you get on/off in zone 5 but it's €3 fare rather than €2 (Train only - the bus to Greystones is still only €2 if you're keen to save a euro).

Polar101

Finally got the 90 minute ticket banner in my version of the Leap Top-up app. Latest update seems to be from Jan 19th (on Android), but I hadn't seen it before.

Much handier now that I won't have to look at the transactions and add 90 minutes myself.

briany

Another question about the Leap Card:-

I add 5 euros of credit to my card, which takes my total balance to over 8 euro. Sorted for the coming day, as the cap is, as I read, 8 euro. I take trains from Rush and Lusk to Kilcock in the morning, which is 3.90 on the leap. Later (having used no public transport in between), I take trains back from Sallins to Pearse (which I think was also 3.90) in order to get a connecting train to Rush and Lusk. I walk off platform 2 at Pearse, through the validator, go around to platform 1 and put the leap card to the validator only to get X sound repeatedly. The question is why I'm getting the X when A) I'm within the 90 minute fare and should be able to tag on and off within the leap zone as much as I like for that duration, and B) can't go over 8 Euro even if I were outside the 90 minutes. What am I missing or doing wrong, there? I had to just walk in behind someone going through the validator in order to catch my train.

P.S. the bus from Rush and Lusk was only 20 cent, indicating that the cap was indeed applicable.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259294#Comment_120259294

Sallins and Kilcock both are outside of TFI 90 for trains.

There's a TFI 90 zone on the map via the link.

https://wicklownews.net/2021/11/tfi-90-minute-fare-to-support-seamless-travel-across-public-transport-network-in-dublin/

pad199207

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259625#Comment_120259625

Sallins/Naas is in the TFI 90 zone but it’s €3 instead of €2.

Cost me €3 to go from Naas to Bray the other day. Fantastic value.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259632#Comment_120259632

That's right, I misread. Kilcock is Zone 6 3.90e and Sallins Zone 5 3e.

Perhaps it was forgotten to tag off? Need to see briany's Leap logs. Also, why bother with these top ups? I'm surprised people still do that. The easiest way is to get it setup on an auto top ups via DD.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259294#Comment_120259294

When you heard the sound, what message appeared on the validator?

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259649#Comment_120259649

This is the leap log for the relevant time. 'twas a long day for me. Anyway, I topped by 5 euro near the end, just to avoid any possible complications about getting the bus in the event that I had gotten something wrong, even though I knew about the daily cap, and it did end up applying. I'll use the credit another time.

7:10 PM is the tag-off from platform 2 at Pearse to go around to platform 1 where I hit that snag I referred to earlier but couldn't understand the reason for. I see no reason why the validator wouldn't just let me through, here.

As to why auto topup isn't used - not everyone uses public transport on a consistently regular basis.

loyatemu

At Pearse, why did you tag off, then back on, why not just go through the underpass?

I think the issue is that Irish Rail don't know how far you're going and whether the 90 minute fare applies until after you tag-off for the last time, so if you try to tag-on and don't have enough credit to cover it it won't work.

re: capping - someone else might know this, if I take 7 bus journeys each 90 min+ apart, do I get charged €14 and then get a refund at the end of the day? or does it apply the cap during the day?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120264186#Comment_120264186

I suspect that you are correct re the Irish Rail fares - OP in future make sure to use the underpass at Pearse further along the platform towards Grand Canal Dock - it does not require tagging out and back in.

As far as the buses are concerned, the system applies the cap once you reach it.

Hotblack Desiato

I thought the whole point of daily capping etc. was there were no "gotchas" depending on whether you tagged off & on, or not, at intermediate stages - you're supposed to be charged the same.

Whatever happened to the €5 emergency credit paid for when buying the card?

I thought it'd let you travel on any fare under €5 provided you have a positive balance.

Bray Head

I haven't been on a bus in Dublin since the new fare structure was introduced and was wondering how the <3km thing works.

Do I just get on and say "short trip fare please" and tag my Leap card? If I do the same on the next bus does it just debit the card for €0.70 taking me up to the capped 90-minute fare of €2?

I looked on the NTA website and I couldn't really find an answer.

I remember with the old 1-3 stage fare none of the drivers ever seemed to know how long a stage was. From the NTA website this still seems a bit unclear:

The short fares applies to a journey on any single route up to approx. 2km to 3km in length, so some variances will exist in relation to distances people can travel on the short fare. This is for a variety of reasons including the location of individual stops on the public transport network relative to fare boundaries and to the need to maintain fares consistency when routes use different streets depending on direction of travel. .

p_haugh

Do I just get on and say "short trip fare please" and tag my Leap card? If I do the same on the next bus does it just debit the card for €0.70 taking me up to the capped 90-minute fare of €2?

Yes, that's pretty much how it works. The driver may ask what stop you're going to as well.

On the 2nd trip, even if you tag on using the right-hand validator, it should only debit the 70c to bring it to the 90 minute fare.

LXFlyer

Just tell the driver where you are going if you think your journey qualifies for the lower fare.

The ticket machine will tell the driver how far you can go on the short fare (it updates using the GPS location).

Beware, the new 3km principle only works on routes that have gone through the BusConnects redesign. All the other routes still use the old fare stages which are listed on the timetable pages on the Dublin Bus website, and the short fare is valid for 1-3 stages.

Bray Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120499729#Comment_120499729

Many thanks.

Do the drivers know the stages? From past experience (over a decade ago) different drivers would give different answers. 3km is a bit easier to get your head around than the stage system.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120499787#Comment_120499787

The drivers only need to know the routes.

The ticket machines now have all the stages uploaded into them, and update automatically the locations based on the GPS position of the bus.

The ticket machine screen will tell the driver how far the short fare goes at any point.

Just tell the driver where you are going.

AngryLips

Isn't the 3km short fare only limited to the new BC routes? So ridiculous that there's two short fare types depending on the route you're taking.

p_haugh

@LXFlyer

Beware, the new 3km principle only works on routes that have gone through the BusConnects redesign. All the other routes still use the old fare stages which are listed on the timetable pages on the Dublin Bus website, and the short fare is valid for 1-3 stages.

Ah so that's why it's the full fare from the driver when I get the 17 down to Blackrock, even though it's within the 3km limit. If I say Blackrock Park, rather than just Blackrock, the ticket machine usually gives the short fare!

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120500044#Comment_120500044

it's just during the transitional period, so only the next 10 years or so.

Hotblack Desiato

They might have introduced new ticket machines by then, you never know...

bk

Funny, I was about to complain about how ridiculous it is that they haven't rolled out the short fare to all routes and how there is now no way to check if a short fare (3km or 3 stage) should apply or not. They removed that info from the apps!

But maybe this is all part of an evil plan. Make the short fare so hard to get or even know that you are entitled to it, that most people will just tag-on for the 90 minute ticket and then they can show very low usage of the short fare and thus cancel it, leaving just a flat 90 minute fare!

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120503020#Comment_120503020

“Short” fare applies only to these routes:

• H1, H2, H3 and 6
• C1, C2, C3, C4, C5, C6, 52, L51, L52, L53, L54, L58 and L59
• G1, G2 and 60
• N4 and N6

Every other route is normal 1-3 stages, which are listed at the bottom of the timetables on the Dublin Bus website.

There is a fare calculator on the Dublin Bus app.

jeffk

What is ridiculous is carrying a card in 2023, should be long able to have it on your phone via app or wallet (or whatever ios have)

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120503285#Comment_120503285

There is literally no reasonable excuse for why the short fare should be different depending on route. Ticketing is no dependent on the network at all but for some reason the NTA are making them interlinked.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120503474#Comment_120503474

Or just pay directly with contactless debit/credit card.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504024#Comment_120504024

They have to completely redesign the stages for every route to implement the new short fare. The system has is still based on stages but they are far more spaced out.

It’s not remotely like flicking a switch and I’m guessing that the NTA don’t have anything like the staff resources to do it quickly.

The NTA really did bite off more than it could chew with this - they completely mucked up the implementation of the short fare, underestimating the work involved, and frankly led to stand up rows between passengers (who believing the blurb that the NTA put out assumed it applied to all routes) and drivers, who were correctly using the ticket machine.

bk

"They have to completely redesign the stages for every route to implement the new short fare. The system has is still based on stages but they are far more spaced out.

It’s not remotely like flicking a switch and I’m guessing that the NTA don’t have anything like the staff resources to do it quickly."

That doesn't make sense. They are clearly rolling out the new fares as routes go BusConnects. But now that the rollout is heavily delayed, there is no reason why they couldn't be redoing the stages gradually for the existing routes.

"There is a fare calculator on the Dublin Bus app."

True, though strictly speaking it is out of date. It gives you a fare of €2.25 for Leap for 5 stages, so clearly it hasn't been updated for the 90 minute €2 ticket. Obviously those of us in the know can use it to figure it out, but that is hardly user friendly for most people.

I was really talking about the old NTA app and website, that use to have it in a very easy to use form (in the journey planner), but they removed it from both of those and it isn't in the new app now. Idiotic.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504557#Comment_120504557

Well I was just explaining that it's not quite as simple the other poster thinks.

I get the impression that the NTA only want to do it on "their" routes, i.e. the ones that they have designed.

The DB app will tell you the stages though, which is the key piece of information. If it is 3 or less, it's the lower fare that applies.

To be quite honest I find the total lack of information about the fare stages on the NTA site or GAI just ludicrous.

bk

"The DB app will tell you the stages though, which is the key piece of information. If it is 3 or less, it's the lower fare that applies."

Sure, you and I know what that means, by 99.9% of the general public don't.

As I said above, the NTA pulling any info about the short fare from their apps and website makes me suspicous that they are trying to downplay it.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504606#Comment_120504606

I think that you're giving the NTA fare too much credit. I suspect that's down to ineptitude and a complete lack of operational awareness.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504631#Comment_120504631

Fare -> far :) Though the fact that they had the fare info on the old app, but then pulled it, leads me to think otherwise. Thought went into that decision. If they had just left it, but not updated it, like the DB app, then it would more indicate ineptitude.

briany

I have a question: I got on the 115 out of Kilcock toward Dublin CC last week. When I checked my Leap app to see what that cost me, I noticed the 90 minute fare notification above. However, when I got on the 33x 72 minutes later, there did not appear to be any deduction of that second fare.

As I understand it, Bus Eireann is not part of the TFI 90 minute thing, so why is tapping on a Bus Eireann service triggering the 90 minute banner?

thomasj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121303258#Comment_121303258

I was getting the 90 minute banner when I was boarding the buses in Galway.