Swashbuckler's Marathon Debut?
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What can I say that hasn't already been said! Huge well done on such an amazing achievement that I hope you are so proud of! Sub 3 for your 1st marathon...wow, just wow!
I said it to you before I loved your warts & all approach to logging yoyr training, always so honest which makes anyone who may be struggling or having doubts realise that well it is just all part & parcel of this hobby we love so much. Your report totally matched it, all the good & bad bits there to read so openly & honestly. Struggling so early on with those dark thoughts & self doubt & still gritting it out till the end is a sheer testament of your determination & strength. I loved reading every minute of that, I cried too after my 1st marathon but I suppose with having a nick name of tiny tears I cry at everything ha!
I really do hope you realise just what an achievement this it & that you should be so proud of yourself 🤗
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Absolutely delighted for you. Brilliant debut and a great report. I felt I was there with you reading it. Congratulations enjoy te high.
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Great read, great run. I think you'll have some better marathons, but that was a good first one.
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Thanks everyone. I've said it already but the messages of support and congratulations really has blown me away. Thank you all so much. I wont reply to all directly but there were a few things said over the last couple of pages I'd like to follow up on.
@ReeReeG believe it or not the fact everyone seemed so invested in it was of benefit to me. I used it as a positive. You'll see from my race report that I thought about Boards quite a bit during the day to keep me going. So it didnt feel like any added pressure. Also, the advice I got along the way really helped me in training and on raceday. Priceless stuff really.
@Murph_D in terms of the pace group - a lot of it was me being cranky/suffering too. It's not that they were all full of chat but a few were certainly in higher spirits than me. And with me there's always a tendency of frustration that I'm not finding things easier which can often manifest itself into thinking everyone else is better than me. I'm a cranky racer 😂
@jebuz never any fear of me shying away from the shorter stuff. It's always been my first love (especially the 10k). One thing I think the marathon training and race has done is shift my focus. I always used to be focussed on shorter stuff and getting faster at 5k/10k. After this block it feels like everything now will shift towards improving at the marathon distance long term. But we'll see.
To close out the marathon chapter of this log I revisited some of my learnings I posted pre-race. They all still apply. I just have a few more to add, more for my own record;
- Mixing in diuralyte drinks is something I should do for all marathons going forward. It's always hard to know if they helped but they didn't not help if that makes sense...lol..Diuralyte each morning and night for the few days beforehand is also something I would keep up.
- My food intake worked well the days in advance of the race. Not heavy carb loading but more carby dinners. Spag bol two days before and creamy pasta with chicken mid day the day before. Lighter meal in the evening the night before. Regular breakfast. I didnt feel bloated which was a good sign and I never felt like I was severely depleted of glycogen on race day.
- I cant stomach Maurten mix.
- Powerade energy drink didnt work for me. Need to find an alternative for next time.
- By mile 17 or 18 I couldnt stomach any more intake. Felt like it was disrupting my rhythm and making the negative thoughts worse. Hard to see how to get around that in future. I dont think I'm a five gel marathon guy.
- Diet during training wasnt great. I suspect I'm heavier than previous years although I dont weigh myself anymore.
- Everyone should have marathon mentors (more experienced and maybe faster folks). I relied quite a lot on a few Boardsies (both publicly and privately). Get some mentorship for future marathons!
- Nothing in training simulated the race day feeling.....Nothing.......What the training did do was set me up to have the body to dig in, if the brain was willing. I now have an actual race in the bank so I at least know that this wont be such a shock the next time.
- I struggled to wrap my head around how difficult I found it versus what my own interpretation of my fitness level was. I think I've since learned that it takes many marathon blocks to close the gap to get closer to projected time. Either that or I'm lacking in other areas like S&C, diet etc. I think I've settled on the fact that it will always be hard but hopefully at some point a 2.58 won't be quite so hard.....but that will take time.
- Recovery from the marathon has been excellent. No particular reason why - I havent done anything special apart from rest for four days and a light jog on Friday and Saturday. I feel good but will be sensible (in general).
I don't plan on dragging the arse out of this so for me I will now park up the marathon chapter and move on. I was planning on closing this log and starting afresh but I think i'll just keep this one going as I move to the next phase.
I don't expect to be as intense in my future logging. I'm hoping for a relaxed Summer of enjoying shorter stuff and racing for fun with no major pressure to target PB's. What will come will come. I just want to get back to enjoying the faster stuff and forget about 2.5 or 3hr runs for a while.
Post edited by Swashbuckler on11 -
Worth the wait.
You had an amazing debut Paul, congrats again, some achievement and a lesson in focus and commitment both in the training and on the day. It's great to hear you speak of getting back to the short stuff but with a long term view of it helping with the long stuff. It will be interesting to see how you progress, in time of course, for now enjoy being a marathon runner, and a sub 3-hr one at that! Super, really super.
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Well done, lad. I haven't been on here in an age (Came on looking for coaching tips from Tergat's plan and Krusty's log!!) But I loved the way you took the "I loved every minute of it" sunshine tree-huggy feeling out of the report. I've always struggled with that side of marathon comments. "Make sure to enjoy the Bronx" What? The Bronx is at mile 20/21, how da fook am I going to enjoy ANYTHING at that stage!?
You put the hard work in, as far as I see, and you ran a tough smart race. You were fighting with the head for long stretches, and I think that is what debutants can learn most from. In fact, if anyone asked me about a race report right now, I'd copy and paste yours.
Except for the very odd case, we all suffer during these kinds of races. I think those who sugar coat them afterwards are doing others an injustice, so... once again, Congrats on the achievement and on the honest report of how the race went.
And enjoy the growing family.
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@Itziger great to see you dropping in. Thanks very much for the kind words. I think by the time marathon day had come around, at least 15 people had said to me to enjoy my first marathon. I couldnt comprehend it to be honest. I couldn't fathom how running 26 miles (at any decent clip) would be enjoyable and I just didnt see the point of months of training and sacrafice to go out and run it easy! That being said, now that the sheer shock of the day has eased I already look back at the day fondly. Thanks for reading the report.
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I love this post some really fascinating reflections and I urge you to keep this log going - it’ll be amazing to see how things progress and what effect that will have for future marathon times or experiences even. I think going back to your first love is a wise decision to give the mind a different kinda focus for a while.
You aren’t dragging the arshe out of anything either - I for one love reading this log. It’s got the research I’m too lazy to do and it’s a great area to pick up tips and tease things out.
I’d advise you to read this post I’m quoting regularly when you begin your next marathon programme - very motivational, bit of self-caution and plenty of positivity.
Lastly, if you have the time - post regularly!!
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Firstly I hope all is well with you but I have to disagree here. I really don't see the harm in saying enjoy your 1st marathon... As a novice that's what we are told by our mentors & by fellow runners. I remember also being told by many on here for my 1st marathon that it was not the time to be aggressive, I wasn't & got a decent time for the hard training I had put in. My report reflected this, it was not all rainbows & unicorns, a lot of the miles hurt & I had to dig in & that was also mentioned, the same with Manchester which was tougher both mentally & physically but again there was joy & pain in the report because that is how I remember it. We all write differently, we all recall things differently so ultimately that is what we put in our reports... each to their own. A little sunshine is nice at times...
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I am all for enjoying the build-up and the aftermath, but the race itself should be (and in your case it certainly was) all business. The word 'enjoy' can be bandied about a bit carelessly alright, but I don't think it's meant to be taken literally, ever. It’s all relative.
The sense of achievement from a well run marathon with an ambitious target is immense - more so than any other distance, I think, because 26.2m/42.2k is a unique challenge that takes you just beyond the ‘normal’ capacity, so you can still run relatively fast but it’s only sustainable with proper adaptation and some external fuelling. Without fail, poor training always gets shown up - you can’t avoid being ‘found out’, as Eamon Dunphy used to say. So a well run race, despite the pain, is an achievement to be enjoyed (afterwards). The early stages of a marathon can also be very ‘enjoyable’ in real time - if you’ve done it right, the first few miles can feel ridiculously easy, so that’s the part where I try to take it all in. That might not have been your experience on this occasion but it will be in time.
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Funnily enough it actually was. I recalled being very happy the first few miles especially on the loop back into town before heading out to Casteltroy. It might not have come across in the report but looking back on the photos from the day you can see me smiling in those early miles and that was without me being aware of cameras.
I can see the merit in advising novices to "enjoy" it. Not to be bigging myself up but I probably wasn't your regular novice with having several years of fairly hefty training in the legs including several races across multiple distances.
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Cheers lad.
To be honest I've felt like this log really has been front and centre to a certain degree so when I say drag the arse out of it, I'm delighted people are interested but at the same time I'm conscious there are plenty of other logs and other people looking for feedback too and now that my marathon block is done I'd be happy if they got some of the attention 😂.
Not to say I don't love all the discussion, i really do, as long as its not too much at the expense of other logs. I know what its like to update every week and get some kudos and nothing else and after a while it feels like whats the point.
Oh I'll always be posting around here. Too addicted to stop.
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Hey P. Sorry for the tardy post but my self imposed exile has meant that I have missed out on what has been, by all reports, an epic log. I have to admit it wasn't the race report I would have expected at the start of your journey but huge congrats on getting through a tough day....a very courageous run. Enjoy the less pressured summer of shorter distances.
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Quick catchup here. I'm already falling behind but I'm planning on keeping the log going, unless the forum turns into a ghost town again!
Post marathon recovery has been as surprising as the marathon itself but in the opposite way. I can't say I have felt any sort of marathon hangover, or niggle or even that much tiredness. I guess I was reasonably well conditioned for the race. I took the sensible approach the following week.
May 2nd - 8th - week 1 post marathon
Mon/Tues/Wednesday/Thurs - rest
Friday - 30mins easy - 8.09min/mile
Saturday - 28mins easy - 8.03min/mile
Sunday - Rest
Took a few days off work after the race and headed to Kerry with the family. It was a great week. In theory I had planned to switch off completely from running but the runner in me was making all these plans for the future. Lol. Didn't do any running though which was sensible. Apart from some stiffness Monday I cant honestly say I felt anything. Still, kept in sensible. The easy runs were grand. Felt strange getting the legs moving again on the Friday but mentally it was very very welcome. The only notable thing was noticing the hamstrings were probably a little tired by the end of these short runs.
May 9th - 15th - week 2 post marathon
Still keeping it sensible (mostly) for the second week post marathon.
Mon - 45mins easy - 8.08min/mile
Tues - 40mins easy - 8.01min/mile
Wednesday - 30mins Easy - 8.06min/mile
Thursday - 45mins easy - 8.05min/mile
Friday - Buttevant 4M race 😯😯😯 - report to follow
Saturday - rest (by choice)
Sunday - rest (forced - picked up a bug from the little one)
I felt good all week. Was tempted to do some strides or something sharpish but just decided not to. Buttevant 4M appeared on my radar early in the week and I thought a bit about it before deciding. I made one deal with myself. Run it but enjoy it - dont force yourself to push to the edge. Dont expect a pb. Just run for fun. So with that the decision was made. Was looking a bit ropey Friday afternoon with a sick child in the house (clearly not Covid based on the symptoms which I wont go into but negative antigens regardless) but the missus insisted I head away. Superstar. Had arranged to meet my Dad too who lives nearby. More to follow.
So week 2 post marathon and all is well. I feel like I could motor on if I wanted but I wont. I'll slowly introduce some stuff over the coming weeks and take it from there.
The current plan is to spend June/Jul/Aug at the shorter stuff. If you had asked me a few months ago I'd have said I want to attack the pbs. My mindset has changed a bit. If pb's come then great but the long term goal is get some turnover, work on some of my weaknesses in terms of form and turnover, get some drills into the mix as well as some S&C. I'd like to come out of the summer a more efficient runner. I've seen enough footage of myself running at this stage to see there is massive room for improvement in my mechanics, stride, pushoff and general technique. No harm in working on those now while getting some good 5k/10k work done.
After that I plan to switch to the HM with a view to racing in December. One fault I have with my pre Limerick marathon buildup is my complete lack of longer stuff in recent years. Sure I have a solid aerobic base behind me (plenty room for more though) but in reality my last half marathon was 2018. Everything since then has really been shorter stuff (literally noting longer than 10k races). I'd like to end the year with a half marathon training block and race.
Then it gets interesting and before anyone says it - I know its 8 months away but I like to think long term and make sure everything feeds into that. A lot can happen and change between now and then but my plan for next year is primarily focus on DCM 2023. I would like to dedicate most of the year to building the base and then transitioning into marathon specific stuff for DCM. I'm reading a lot on Lydiard at the moment and while I think his entire philosophy from start to finish might not suit me I can certainly see the benefits of his first couple of phases. I like the thoughts of taking a massive aerobic base into specific training. But thats only where my head is at right now. No doubt in 5 months time I'll have changed my mind and Lydiard will be cast aside. Plenty more reading and research to be done - and plaguing the Lydiardites with questions. 😂
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Buttevant 4M race report
This will be less epic than my previous report!
As I said this was a relatively late decision to race. I know its probably ill advised but my mentality was to head out there, meet my Dad for a chat, hit the road and see how the legs are. If the legs gave out then just pull back and jog it. No pressure, just fun.
Landed in Buttevant around 7.30pm ahead of an 8.15pm start time. Before I go into any other details - very well organised by Buttevant RC. Super job in terms of parking, atmosphere, stewarding and local support. Great spread after which was a complete novelty. You can just feel the sense of happiness from folks to be back racing again and being around other runners.
Threw on the Alphafly for their first race outing. I renewed my membership with Limerick AC. Had a good chat with the club lads post marathon. I think at this stage its known that I just cant commit to training with them but its nice to have a club singlet when racing.
Had a lovely catch-up with Dad. He hadnt been at a race since 2018 I could tell he just loved being in that atmosphere again.
Headed off for a warmup, plenty of club singlets around - mostly Cork clubs - Mallow, Buttevant, Leevale, Doneraile, Churchtown, Shandrum. Some from Limerick but not many. Had a good chat with a couple of lads. One of the Leevale lads was a 16.05 5k guy. Him and another lad looked like they were the main contenders. That turned out to be the case as they finished 1 and 2. Did some half arsed strides and drills and we lined up.
As usual everyone took off like a maniac. I just reminded myself that I had agreed this would be an enjoyable run so take off at around 10k effort and see how you are. The first mile is quite generous in terms of elevation so easy to have a quick one. I would say roughly 20-25 runners ahead of me but they werent long coming back to me. It settled a bit as we made our way through town. Big cheer from Dad and a smile and thumbs up from me. Was feeling great. about three quarters of the way into mile 1 it had settled a bit with me, one Mallow lad called Anthony and a girl whose singlet I couldnt make out but she was a serious enough runner - better form and technique than me thats for sure! She ended up winning the female category in 23:45. Thats an impressive run on this course. Mile 1: 5.40
Mile 2 wasn't the worst either. Overall it was an elevation drop but i'm sure I recalled some bumps along the way especially as we took a left turn well outside of town. Nothing major to report here apart from me pulling away from Mallow AC guy and the lady on one of the drags. I seem to enjoy hilly races . Mile 2: 5.50
I should say, by no means all out for what I would normally be in a 4M. In the past I've targeted pretty much 5k effort for these but not today. I had invested so much mental energy into Limerick that I just wanted to let the body and mind enjoy a race for once. I dont always want to be the guy squirming for dear life at the end trying to squeeze every last drop out of a race 😂.I also knew the route was very tricky in parts in mile 3 and 4 and I didnt want to die a death on the hills. In hindsight I think the sensible first couple of miles set me up nicely for those miles. Running solo now, in 9th position overall and 8th place probably ~100m ahead. A very draggy mile where most of the elevation drop in the first two miles is snatched back from you. Because of my start, I was able to negotiate the hills pretty well and open the gap behind me while closing the gap ahead. Still keeping the effort honest but enjoyable.
Mile 3: 5.57
Into the last mile and I know whats ahead because the way the circuit loops, most of mile 4 is actually mile 1 albeit with a massive hill that isnt there for mile 1. I have 8th place in my sights after that nasty hill and I know the rest of the race is flat/downhill. But it is for him too. I push on a bit and I'm certainly gaining a bit. We turn the corner for the last few hundred metres and I put another shove on but he does too. Any other day and I'd force the issue but not today. Thats not to say I'd catch him. To be honest we were both puffing pretty hard for the last 100m but he had enough of a gap and a downhill that it would have taken a monumental change in pace for me to catch him. With all that being said I finished at 5min/mile pace. Ignoring the downhill for the last 200m I was at 5.30 pace before that which is a good sign - finishing strong. He finished 1 second ahead of me so I kept him honest.
Mile 4: 5.49
End result: 23:17, 9th place
Was over the moon with a few things. I just enjoyed the race, didnt kill myself. Lovely being back at the shorter stuff. The legs felt super. The Alphafly are the absolute dog boll*cks. I love them. Headed back to get the goody bag which had a lovely customised mug which I thought was a really nice touch. Picked up some tea, cake and sandwiches which I dutifully passed off to my supporter for the evening. Dad was a happy man as I think he skipped his supper to support me. Huge compliments to Buttevant RC for a very well run event and fantastic spread - all put on very carefully with Covid in mind. Well done.
Headed back to Limerick with the glow of race euphoria surrounding me. About 22 seconds off a PB on a tougher course , post marathon. Very happy.
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Well done P especially so soon after your marathon. Great to hear the race atmosphere is back to normal, sounds like your dad enjoyed it too🤗
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Think your instincts were good running the race in the progressive way you did. It's a great way to 'bag' the aerobic gains from the marathon and convert them to faster aerobic paces. Very like the session detailed in this article. https://www.fastrunning.com/training/marathon-training/making-canova-progress/33854
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Cheers for that demfad. Certainly not on purpose and I'd argue not even intuitive!
I've actually don't quite a bit of searching around Boards looking for bits and pieces of how best to transition from marathon to 10k and also for info on Canova and Lydiard. One thing I've learned is its all been asked and theorised before. Funny how we might think we're unique but it's all been asked before. I often wonder how some of the old schoolers on boards have the patience seeing the same questions being asked again and again over the years (often by me!)
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Nice work - sounds like a good race. And a spread! Wait til @skyblue46 hears about that.
Your post marathon recovery is exemplary - I wouldn't mind a race either if I'd felt that good in the aftermath. You're clearly cut out for this stuff. 😉
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Cheers Murph. Not sure if I'm cut out for it but this time round seems to have worked out post marathon anyway. Daniels (and previous years) must have had me very well conditioned for that target pace...Now just need to build up that aerobic base massively for next years assault on DCM. I'm sure I'll have questions 😉
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I think he enjoyed the sandwiches more than the race 😁
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On catch up again P! Loved both reports! That was some first marathon and good job in Buttevant. Always nice to have a blow out on a shirt race like that after a marathon.
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May 16th - 22nd - week 3 post marathon
Mixed bag this week. Coming off a dose/bug myself on the previous Sat/Sun. It quickly became apparent we had the vomiting bug in the house which proceeded to rip its way through the family. My wife and I managed to avoid the worst of the symptoms but my god the kids didnt.
Mon - 45mins easy - 8.15min/mile - legs good, HR high. Running for the mind more than anything.
Tues - Rest - enforced day off to deal with the chaos that the vomiting bug brought to the household. Man oh man its a 24hr period i'll never forget. Not nice, especially with a little baby. For anyone with kids that hasnt encountered it, if you get even a hint of your kids being anywhere near someone that has had it in the previous 5 days keep them away. It's just a nightmare.
Wednesday - 55mins Easy - 8.07min/mile - less chaotic, everyone on the mend. Tired mind and body.
Thursday - 52mins easy - 8.17min/mile. Still tired.
Friday - 60mins easy - 8.18min/mile. Still tired.
Saturday - 41mins easy - 8.13min/mile. Better.
Sunday - Progressive Fartlek (1M/800m/400m/6x30s/6x15s) 3mins jog between each set - equal recoveries between the 30s and 15s. Much better.
On Sunday I just winged it a bit . Didn't have anything pre-prescribed. I just headed out and said I'd go on how I felt. Another sloggy easy run wasnt all that attractive so I started out with a faster mile. Not trying to go quick, just wanted to get the legs moving. Roughly 6.30 pace. In the middle of that mile I decided a progressive fartlek might be nice , to jolt the body a bit. 800m was quicker. Roughly 10k pace. 400m quicker again. Roughly 5k pace. Then the 30s and 15s were nice and quick. Felt all the better for it afterwards.
Weekly Total: 38.6 miles
I had planned to introduce a little more stuff last week - even just strides and some tempo stuff but for the week that was in it I couldn't. I just got out when I could and kept it easy, although some of those days even easy felt difficult. There's no accounting for a week like this. Sometimes life just happens. To be fair its probably not the worst time for something like this as it forced me to keep the running sensible. So that's three weeks post marathon down. Hard to make any comment on how the fitness is given I was so drained last week. The turnover stuff was enjoyable though.
I'd be hoping to bump up the mileage again this week to somewhere near 50 miles and have some more "stuff" in my runs. Would like a longer run too. Then that will be four weeks post marathon done at which point I plan to start getting more structured with training again.
Passed 1000 miles for the year last week. Three weeks behind last year. I'd say I wont be near my mileage from last year (2800 miles) but hopefully in better shape.
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I see you've replaced "leggy" with "tired" ;-)
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Haha. Leggy would characterize tired legs the day after a hard session.
Tired encompasses my whole being feeling like sh*t. 😂
One of those weeks where you do it coz you know you need to, but sitting on the couch and eating a tube of pringles seems far more attractive.
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I should also say, I've taken a mini break from Strava for any people concerned about my whereabouts 😂.
Races will still appear though.
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Ah I see. Leggy for me is when I bump into 4 doorways while half asleep and looking for the bathroom at 3am. Tired is just normal ;-) although I'd be more inclined to have a tub of haagen dazs than pringles.
Seriously though, great running and looking forward to what you can do in the next few months.
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Gonna take some stalking to keep an eye on you boyo! Good running all things considered about home and the lethargy that usually follows a marathon doesn’t seem to have hit you too much - great running!
2800 is some total. Awesome!
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Super interesting to see how you're moving so well post marathon, could it be that you were a little conservative during the marathon block and avoided getting marathon legs for too long? Maybe you're just naturally accustomed to the faster turnover too, either way - really great to see you kicking on
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Im glad you said that coz I've thought a lot about it and didn't really bring it up here. There have been a few surprises in the last few months. Firstly ,just how tough I found the first few weeks of the plan. I think I understand why and it's not unusual. Then how tough I found the actual race . That, I still don't fully understand. I have thoughts and guesses but nothing concrete. And then there's the recovery and how well its gone.
I think the way I approached training was right but if you look at my pace ranges. 5k effort sessions were 5.45ish. Threshold was 6.10ish. Neither of these line up with a marathon pace of 6.50. So maybe the marathon pace was very much within my capability in training, maybe too much so. I don't know.
Also, I definitely feel like I'm accustomed to faster turnover. But either way it still wouldn't explain why Buttevant felt like I just had normal training legs.
The past week was different though , maybe due to sickness and home stress or maybe a delayed marathon hangover. Most likely home stress and sickness though.
It begs the question though, if I have recovered this well then what was the limiting factor that had me struggling on the day itself. Fresh legs post marathon would suggest it wasn't my legs were the problem.
I should say, 2.58 is a great result and I'm not saying it wasn't. But no harm in asking these questions if only to learn something.
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