Swashbuckler's Marathon Debut?

AuldManKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106502#Comment_119106502

I'm much more impressed that DD found his password.

Duanington

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107689#Comment_119107689

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107689#Comment_119107689

ha ha ha ha - its a heroic achievement really

demfad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106502#Comment_119106502

You mentioned in your report about sweating early in the race. It can happen in a Spring marathon that even a fractionally unseasonably warm day (for you) can have a big effect as the training has been done in the cooler months of Winter/early Spring.

Swashbuckler

May 23rd - 29th

Back to normal this week after all the sh*tness and tiredness that came with the vomiting bug in the house

Mon - 60mins easy - 7.47min/mile - Much better.

Tues - 62mins easy incl 6x20s strides - Good again. Back to normal.

Wednesday - 2M at 6.30ish/3min jog/6x1min Hard, 1min off.

Went very well. Wind was a little wild so the paces were a bit mixed but went entirely on effort. Not rushing things and kept it relatively conservative.

2M: 6.33/6.21

1mins: 5.29/5.37/5.44/5.21/5.48/5.31

8 miles in total. Felt decent.

Thursday - 52mins easy - 7.58min/mile. A little sluggish.

Friday - 60mins steady with warmup and cooldown

I left this one open on the watch and knew I wanted to run some steady miles but was undecided on how many. decided to cap it at 60mins. Including warmup and cooldown it was 85mins in total , 12 miles.

Paces for the steady section were: 6.59/6.51/6.59/6.55/6.52/6.52/6.52/6.47/6.53

I didnt monitor the pace for this one. Just had the HR display on and wanted to keep it in or around 150 which is a good bit from anaerobic threshold. Pretty comfortable.

Saturday - Rest.

Sunday - Easy 10k - 8.06min/mile

Tiring weekend and didnt get out til late for the SUnday run. It was fine though - cleared the mind for a bit!

Weekly Total: 48.1 miles

Weekly mileage is back to in or around my norm when training for the shorter stuff. The last few weeks have been a bit ad-hoc. I had a more structured recovery plan originally but life got in the way and it became whatever I felt on the day. Time to get back to more structured training again now. Two sessions and one long run a week. Mileage of 50+ per week. A few races coming up in June/July/August.

Swashbuckler

A little bit behind on logging so I'll bring it up to last Sunday. Four weeks had passed since the marathon so this week was the time to start with something a little more structured including two sessions and a long run. I don't want to fully commit to what philosophy or plan i'm following yet. The tentative plan is a little Tinmanesque but not rigid to that either. Basically I'm playing it by ear a bit and going by how I feel. I'm a lot more confident at this than I used to be. That being said, that could all change in a week. Really for now the focus is to enjoy the shorter stuff, get some no pressure racing in and have some fun.

May 30th - June 5th

Monday - Session - 8x2mins @5.50ish pace off 1mins recovery

Target here is in the region of 10k/CV effort but not forcing it too much. Just to get the wheels turning a bit. There was the option of adding in some 30s hills at the end but I decided against. Why force it so soon I guess.

Session itself was very enjoyable. The 1min recovery felt shorter as the session progressed but there is turnover in the legs and certainly no marathon hangover.

Pace splits were: 5.52/5.52/5.52/5.43/5.46/5.46/5.51/5.49

Recoveries were mostly jogged which turned into a walk/jog by the last couple.

Nice session and nothing overly strenuous.

8 miles in total incl WU and CD

Tuesday - Easy 7M, 55mins, 7.55min/mile avg - all good. Zero hangover from the session. Legs felt good.

Wednesday - Easy 10k incl. 6 x 20s Strides, 8.05min/mile avg - Felt good again and nice to get some zip in the legs with the strides.

Thursday - Session - 5M @ tempo effort (~6.30min/mile pace)

So this is tempo by Tinman definition , not Daniels. So its not threshold. Purely aerobic but on the high end of aerobic.

I really enjoy these runs. Not overly challenging on the lungs or heart and the marathon block certainly makes 5 miles at this pace feel like a very manageable session. That being said, it was a relatively flat route. Going forward i'll pick more challenging routes but I figured this being the first week with some proper structure I would ease into it. The miles were very consistent here. Kept the HR sub threshold (by a long way). Infact it was noticable this week that I seem to be getting better paces for same effort as previous.

9 miles in total incl WU and CD (average 7min/mile pace for the whole lot). A nice workout.

Friday - 12M vanilla

Longest run since the marathon and nice to get back into some longer stuff. 1hr 36min in total and a very pleasant run. I listened to a podcast sent to me by DD from these parts - a Lydiard talk with his protegee Nobby. Very interesting listen. Infact I need to get more podcasts in my library as the time just flew by. I must say I'm really into the Lydiard stuff at the moment. Need to make more time for reading and less time aimlessly scrolling on my phone in the evenings. I would love to give a Lydiard block of training a go for the marathon next year. I'm finding Murphs log very interesting at the moment as he is pretty much halfway through a similar style of training I'm considering for DCM2023 (but lets not get too far ahead of myself). There's just something about the methodology that makes complete sense to me.

Anyways, the run went super

Saturday - Rest. Would like to run on these days but its difficult as it eats into family time at the weekends (especially being down in Kerry)

Sunday - Steady on the hills of Ballyheigue

This was pure indulgence. I just felt like running steady so I did. The legs felt great so I just went with it. Anyone reading diegob's log will often hear about the hills around Ballyheigue. Well its no joke - hard to find a flat route in that part of the world. I covered the Ballyheigue 10k route here. Not much to say apart from the fact I kept it below threshold again and felt really really strong. Covering some of those hilly miles at sub 7min pace and still keeping the heart rate sub threshold is an achievement. There's a monumental drop towards the latter part of the 10k route which pulls down the average pace a bit so its a little misleading to go by average pace. Thoroughly enjoyable run.

7.5 miles total including WU and CD, 52mins, 6.57min/mile average

Weekly Total: 49.8 miles

I well and truly feel back into it anyway. Enjoying my running at the mo. Have a decent enough idea of what my race plan is over the coming while but subject to change;

Ballyheigue 10k - June 18th (tough route so no pressure to PB)

Tralee 10M - July 10th (not for a PB attempt and will depend on the alcohol and food consumption on my holidays)

Banna 10k - July 31st (would like to have a decent crack at this)

Tralee Rose 10k - August 20th (if it goes ahead)

After that the plan is to go into a half marathon block with a view to racing early December.

DeepBlue

Would either of the Banna or Tralee Rose 10ks be PB friendly?

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119178407#Comment_119178407

Yep in my opinion both are.

Banna 10k isnt the worst route. I ran it last year and honestly I can't recall any bad hills. What caught me that day was the headwind as you turn back towards Banna coming out of Ardfert. But thats purely down to the weather, which could hit you anywhere. I was on for sub 36 that day and the windy last 3km pushed me over.

Same with Tralee Rose 10k. Its mostly flat and I can't recall any hill. Maybe a small drag at one point but again, same as Banna, the wind could catch you depending on the day. The canal can be a little exposed. I ran a pb there in 2017.

AuldManKing

I'm sure you'll pick up an entry for DCm in the coming weeks ;)

Nice training!

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119178500#Comment_119178500

haha you're the second person to mention DCM to me.

There's zero interest in another marathon block this year to be honest. I think mentally I gave my lot to it this year.Rightly or wrongly I think the short block followed by a half marathon block followed by possibly Lydiard for DCM 2023 excites me...The thought of training for DCM2022......bleurgh...

squinn2912

You’re gonna miss the big miles lad you’ll be in Dublin 2022 yet!! Like your planning both short and long term. Your level of preparation is excellent and I love how generous you are with your advice! KEep it up!!

Swashbuckler

You can run big miles for the half marathon too 😉

Murph_D

Good plan re 2023 I think. Where are you getting the tinman stuff from? I like his very detailed range of pace/efforts but I’ve only seen that from the calculator.

Swashbuckler

Well it's tinmanesque so I'm taking some of his stuff but somewhat applying some of the learnings from Luke over the years and my own learnings as to what works for me.

For example he had an awful lot of CV paced stuff followed by hills. I plan on having plenty of CV stuff. The hills attached to it are TBD.

I've seen a few of his plans so I have an idea of what he's at. But in all honesty. June , July and August are not intended to be 10k peak specific. Just more turnover and keeping strongly in touch with aerobic efforts .

Murph_D

CV being, what, about 10k pace? Adding hills to that would be tasty alright. No better man. 😉

Swashbuckler

CV is roughly the pace you can hold for 30mins. So roughly 10k pace yeah. Wouldn't be uncommon to see Tinman having something like 8 x 2mins CV + 8x 30s Hills. Possibly manageable depending what stage you are at with training. I found the 8 x 2mins last week enough of a surprise without adding hills.

I'm trying to get the hills in separately right now, for example my steady hilly run around ballyheigue. And some hill intervals this week (to be reported in my log update next week).

Swashbuckler

Very quiet around these parts again - where have all the log updates gone! 😲

June 6th - 12th

Monday - Easy 7M, 55mins, 7.49min/mile avg

Far too many drinks the night before. I think I said it last week, I am noticing my easy runs seem faster for the same effort. Maybe the marathon training conditioned by brain into think slower than 8min miles was the fastest I could manage on an easy day. Certainly much fresher these days. Even afer a feed of Guinness.

Tuesday - Session - 15mins Tinman Tempo (~6.30 pace)/3min Jog/8x35s Hills

Was still down in Kerry on the Tuesday. Took to diegob's famous "flat straight" for the tempo section. The Tempo itself was a bit meh. Sleep had been poor enough at it was at 10am which I'm not really used to. That being said, the right effort level was there. The Hills were actually very enjoyable. It was nice to get the lungs going and by the end of the 35s they certainly are...A couple of seconds walk before jogging back down to repeat. All in all the session was an enjoyable one. The Tempo paces were pretty much bang on the money at 6.25ish. The hill reps were around 10k pace but certainly not 10k effort. I should add - a pretty steep hill.

1hr 2mins, 8 miles total including warmup and cooldown

Wednesday - Easy - 52mins, 6.7 miles, 7.47min/mile avg - A very windy day but felt super again.

Thursday - Easy with 8 x 20s Strides - went great - feeling very fit (easy to feel that way on an easy run I guess

Friday - Session - WU/8 miles alternating 6.30 and 6.50 pace every second mile/CD

Just wanted to have a long run but encorporate some aerobic stuff in it too. The weather conditions were very tough on this with a swirling wind, meaning I had to work really hard to gauge effort level. That being said it went really well. Certainly a little leggy at the end but a good workout.

6.27/6.52/6.33/6.51/6.26/6.51/6.28/6.54

This was a session Luke used to throw my way from time to time. A marathon type session but watered down for 10k training to give a bit of an aerobic boost.

Total 12.1 miles, 1hr 25mins, average 7min/mile all in

Saturday - Rest.

Sunday - Easy 9.1 miles, 1hr 12mins, 7.53min/mile avg

Felt great here again (despite sweating Sauvignon).

Weekly Total: 50.1 miles

First time tipping over 50 miles since before the marathon. I feel great. Not getting overly excited as I know the deal at this stage. Things can change so no point getting over excited when I feel good or getting too down if I feel a bit crap. Steady as she goes.

As you can see I'm making a point of keeping in touch with the aerobic stuff. Will probably introduce some threshold stuff in a few weeks but no rush.

Ballyheigue 10k this weekend. Wont be a pb so no point tapering for it really. Will run a session on Tuesday and maybe a shorter easy run on Friday. Give the hills a good rattle then on Saturday. Hopefully the weather holds up.

Swashbuckler

WhatsApp Image 2022-06-14 at 9.12.41 AM.jpeg

The Fuelcell TC didnt make it to 400 miles. Second pair that this has happened to. Either a flaw in the design or a flaw in my gait! Either way it feels like you should get more bang for your buck with a shoe this expensive (without discounts). I think I paid 100 for these but they were valued at over 200 at the time.

squinn2912

You’re absolutely flying! Seem to be really enjoying your running as well. Love those updates.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199764#Comment_119199764

Cheers lad. Yeah to be honest I'm loving the running at the moment. It's probably coming across just how much I enjoy the shorter stuff. I think the marathon training, while very very rewarding, takes a bit more of a toll on me mentally. Big 18-20 mile sessions loom over me a bit whereas I just love figuring out how to plan the shorter stuff. Plus I can race more and with very little pressure (and be finished in less than 40 minutes). I sure as hell ain't gonna be running a pb this weekend in Ballyheigue which makes it a little more enjoyable. No pressure.

AuldManKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199725#Comment_119199725

Whats your shoe rotation these days?

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199803#Comment_119199803

That's a tricky one to answer as there are a few!

Right now the Endorphin Speeds and Pro for sessions. They'll become easy day shoes soon enough I'd say.

The TC were my long run shoe so I need to figure out what replaces them.

Easy and recovery are the rebel v2 mostly.

Then there's a bunch on lay-by waiting to rotate in.

The racers are the ones you know about - nikes.

I have another pair of speeds ready to come in and the zoomfly 3 or 4 , I can't remember.

Swashbuckler

Oh and the adios Pro 1 which I don't think will make race rotation as I can't use them without plasters on my heels so they will become session shoes

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199803#Comment_119199803

Here we go… haha

squinn2912

You should be writing a book lad! Your positivity is infectious!!

You;ll be loving this, I’ve bought a pair of Saucony Endorphin Speed 2s. Wore the Cumulus there a couple of times and even I realise now they are pure tractors. Not yet with the VFs but I might go that way during the summer

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200099#Comment_119200099

It's only a matter of time lad..you're a 2.50 marathon guy now. Can't be horsing around in gel cumulus 🤣

ariana`

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200099#Comment_119200099

It's a slippery slope once you start... especially with the likes of P around 😜

Have you worn the speed 2 Paul, any notable difference?

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200276#Comment_119200276

Even slipper for the folks whos phone numbers I have. One thing getting updates on Boards. Even worse getting whatsapp messages every time theres a deal. Poor AMK is broke at this stage.

Haven't had an excuse to get the Speed 2 to be honest E. I would never pay full whack and I'm not sure I've seen any very good deal for the Speed 2. My Speed 1 have 400 miles on them and I'm still happy to use them for sessions. And after that I expect they will become an easy day shoe. Then recently Ready2Run Tullamore had a very very good deal on the Speed 1 and I couldnt resist. So i'm kinda all set on that front. Would love to try the second revision but I dont see it happening any time soon.

Duanington

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200969#Comment_119200969

https://www.saucony.com/IE/en_IE/endorphin-speed-2/50612M.html?dwvar_50612M_color=S20688-84#cgid=the-endorphin-collection&start=1

Ahem

squinn2912

Haha I was away there at a meeting and this is some reading to come back to! I think my pair arrived today or will tomorrow I’m losing count of all the deliveries! HAha not sub 2:50 yet so maybe I should stay in my lane another while!! I dunno what is so wrong with my Cumulus but I just know that there IS something not as good. Anyhow these Speed 2s seem to be something between lots of support and racer runners? I dunno why I couldn’t wear my 361s all the time but for some reason that wouldn’t be smart. Informed KS that these ones are my holiday runners she’s delighted cos when I get new runners she gets new socks so win-win. Give ya a laugh. I saw this lovely red pair that I wanted for me… but they didn’t have my size so no good. Then I thought I’d get them in her size but then I thought oh no! I can’t do that then she’s getting a better deal than me… So she was getting 2 pairs of a different look (can’t really remember exactly) and then I thought Stephen youre an asshole. So she got the super reds. Down colours too so winner all round. Told her the story and she just called me autistic…

Cleanman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201316#Comment_119201316

Sold! Was looking to buy a new pair of NB Fuelcells but always wanted to try these, thanks. I'll add them to my "rotation".