Swashbuckler's Marathon Debut?

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526164#Comment_118526164

To be fair they didn't seem as loud as what I've seen some people sound like so I dunno is my gait different or maybe I'm not noticing as much as its me making the noise.

babacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118527154#Comment_118527154

Just out of curiosity, how many pairs of shoes are you going through per year? As in “ending up in the bin”?

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118527632#Comment_118527632

Hmm I can't honestly say I know for sure...I'm similar to yourself in that I don't buy into the 500 mile rule. I wear them til they're almost falling apart. But at a rough guess maybe 4 pairs a year? I have so many in rotation it's not often I'm chucking shoes in the bin so its hard to know..

babacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118527665#Comment_118527665

4 - nice even number 🙂. Is there a shoe that you feel like undergoes several life cycles? Like “wow” first 100k, the “ok” next 200k, then “damn I don’t see them last” the next 100k before then the final x00k are like “I can’t stop running in them. Weird how they came back from that bad phase”?

Swashbuckler

Not particularly. However the fuelcell TC surprised me the most in that even after several hundred miles they still felt better on an easy day than any other shoe I've worn. Fuelcell Rebel are similar. Something about the Fuelcell cushioning I really like . Been tempted to try out the Hoka several times but never took the plunge.

babacool

And there is no need for it! You like your brand, stick to it. 🙂

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118528306#Comment_118528306

Hard to say what my brand is these days! I have Nike, Adidas, New Balance, Saucony and others. But if push came to shove I'd have Nike for racing and new Balance for training.

babacool

You should skip this log and change it to shoe reviews and brand comparison 😁.

squinn2912

See before you change the log I wanna ask… I’m ASICS Cumulous for everything and have been now for about 6-7 years, more maybe. I know where I am - supported pretty well and an all rounder for distance and racing. I bought a pair of Sauconys or Hokas I’m not 100% sure about 18 months and I haven’t worn them. I feel a bit like the bog man that has stew every day.

Reminds me a bit about the time one of the Dublin lads asked Paidí Ó Shea if he came up to Croker on a bus or a train. Paidí didn’t reply but when the first chance came and he emptied the fella he looked down and asked, “well, did that feel like a bus or a train comin through ya?”

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118530610#Comment_118530610

Haha great story.

You're a rare breed -someone running good times in "old school" shoes. Out of interest what's stopped you taking the plunge?

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118531021#Comment_118531021

Hahaha I can’t decide if that’s mean or not!!

I dunno much about the shoes pal. I tried out a few and came upon the Cumulus and they felt good. I’d need someone to give me a crash course on shoes to take the plunge. I’m not against that. Maybe I could go better by doing that?

babacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118532926#Comment_118532926

I’d say that’s exactly what I thought SB should do. Looking at his range of shoes/brands he would be ideal to show pro and cons for most of them 😁.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118532926#Comment_118532926

Haha no genuinely. You don't see many folks not wearing some sort of high end shoe these days.

oh I'm not gonna go down the shoe route too much here. I'm already known as the shoe guy in these parts and I've hijacked enough threads...people are sick of hearing me talk about shoes. Feel free to PM me though!

squinn2912

Aw fair play lad much appreciated! I’ll do that and you can gimme a tutorial. I’ve always feared injury from shoes that are too light but maybe it’s time to debunk that myth!

AuldManKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533328#Comment_118533328

Have your credit card handy - SB costs me a fortune everytime we talk about shoes.

Swashbuckler

Anyone looking for a free entry into Adare 10k?

Swashbuckler

Great Limerick Marathon 2022 – Daniels 2Q Plan Week 4 – (20-Jan to 26-Jan)

Better........but still hard........

Thursday, Jan 20th

Plan: 2E/8M/1E/2M/2E

Actual: 2E/8M/1E/2M/2E

Shoe: NB Fuelcell TC

Had been looking forward to this one on the plan - maybe it's just me but there's something attractive about getting marathon paced miles in when training for a marathon for a few reasons - it gives you some sense of where you are at and in terms of sessions, its the easiest pace on the plan outside of easy running. The last marathon paced session was back on Day 1 of the plan where I felt weak, tired and unfit. Was looking forward to seeing how this one went as I feel like i'm defintely better and stronger now than I was that day albeit deep into a marathon plan.

Before I get into it, I decided in advance to forget all about vdots, planned paces and all that sh*te. Just run how you feel marathon pace should feel. If that's 7 minute miles or slower then thats fine. One thing the past four weeks has taught me is I'm in for a spanking if I try to force it.

Happy to see the regular 2E warmup rather than the usual 26 mile warmup on the Daniels plan!! Was late heading out (as with all of my sessions). The benefit of this is it discouraged me from looking at the watch. I made a point of ignoring the pace for the first mile. Didnt look at the watch once during that mile. I laughed (literally out loud) when the first mile beeped at 6.52.....Got into a decent enough rhythm and actually enjoyed the first 8 miles at marathon pace. Then comes the one mile easy. Ah thats nice of Jack to give me a breather....Til you realise that it's not actually nice. It's just Jack being a pr*ck and making you pick up the pace again for two miles. I partitioned this session well in my head. The sole focus for the miles was to get into a rhythm and no think beyond that section of the session. Once I hit the one mile easy I parked up the eight miles in my mind. It was gone. The session now is all about two miles at marathon pace..Thats my session now. Picked up the pace easier than I expected. Leggy for sure but actually surprised myself a little. Nice cooldown for 15 miles total and a decent evenings work. Decent weather, pretty flat route. I'll get braver with the route deeper into the plan. For now I just needed a bit of a confidence booster on a relatively flat course to get a feel for things. Heart rate stayed within my range for marathon pace but I don't dwell too much on that.

2E: 8.17/8.15

8M: 6.52/6.51/6.48/6.55/6.46/6.55/6.49/6.48

1E: 8.17

2M: 6.37/6.47

2E: 8.02/8.07

Total: 15 miles, 2hrs

Friday, Jan 21st

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 5 miles

Like the manager of the Rutles - I was leggy.

Total: 5 miles, 42mins, 8.29min/mile. Nice low HR throughout (123 avg)

Saturday, Jan 22nd

Plan: Rest

Actual: Easy 8.2 miles including 6x20s Strides, 69mins, 8.19min/mile

Needed to move my rest day to Sunday as it was the little ones christening and wanted a free day to enjoy with the family and friends. I can't remember much about this run. Must have been fine!

Sunday, Jan 23rd 

Plan: Easy plus strides

Actual: Rest

Church, blessings, cake, food, drinks - a good day....probably too good!

Monday, Jan 24th

Plan: 40min Easy/3x2T off 2mins/2E

Actual: Easy 8 miles including 6 x 20s strides (changed vs the plan)

Had to push my session out to Tuesday - reaping the benefits of the flexibility of the 2Q plan. Wore the Alphafly here. Wanted to test them out on an easy run to make sure there were no major issues. Last thing I want is to be miles out the road for a session only to realise my feet hate them. They were genuinely amazing. Trampolines. I can see why people race in them. Worth the 170 euro ;) . Wearing them confirmed to me that you can train in carbon plated shoes and still get a big boost on race day with the Alphafly. They feel streets ahead of the Saucony/NB/Adidas equivalents.

Tuesday, Jan 25th

Plan: Easy

Actual: 40min Easy/3x2T off 2mins/2E (changed vs the plan)

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Speed

Because of the extra rest day I decided to go with the plan as prescribed as I was feeling pretty ok that day. One thing I will say is it is tough heading out the door at 7.30pm after a long day of work followed by kids.....But hey ho , those are my life choices I guess! Decided to go with the Speeds for the craic.

The threshold stuff on Daniels plan is tough.....Its just tough , plain and simple. I saw a session from treviso on Strava today which was 8 x 1 miles at close to threshold...Some lads are different animals. I found 3x2 very tough going.

40mins easy passed by handy enough and you can feel the little bit of tiredness creep into the legs (coz Jack Daniels is a pr*ck). I'm being polite here - I used much stronger language during the session.

I wont go into the nuts and bolts of the session too much. Putting it simply;

First 2 miles - hard - a shock to the system as is usually the case for the first reps of any session with me - I should probably do some strides in advance.

6.15 avg for the first set.

Second 2 miles - hard - negotiating whether i'll do the full three reps. Hate you Daniels. Felt a bad pain in my foot for the second mile of this set. Ripped the shoe off during the 2mins recovery and a hole had opened in the sock at the sole of my foot and it was chaffing badly. Sorted that out quickly and got going again into the third set.

6.13 avg for the second set

Third 2 miles - easiest of the three....why? I dunno....Daniels is still a pr*ck.....

6.16 avg for the third set

I've often watched clips on Youtube of the sweat elite gang (and others) and they all look so smooth when running threshold. I felt anything but that smooth. I think the effort level is right but id say i could do with some work on my running form - nothing some S&C and drills wont sort out if I ever decide to pull the finger out.

Anyways - cursed Daniels all the way through but when it was done I was very pleased with my nights work. It felt like threshold (although its often hard to tell). Its just threshold at that volume, after that many miles I find a bit tougher.

Total: 13.6 miles, 1hr 43mins

Wednesday, Jan 26th

Plan: Easy with strides

Actual: Easy 5M, 42mins30s, 8.29avg

Not too bad - kept it slow. Recovery as it should be.

_______________________________________________________________________

Planned mileage for the week: 54

Actual mileage for the week: 54.7

Time on feet: 7hrs 11mins

Miles in the block to date: 209

Number of MP miles: 17

Number of Threshold miles: 20

Comments

• Better week this week. Still very tough but I think i'm wrapping my head around the fact this plan is really preparing for you to suffer so it should be no surprise I'm not cantering through it. One thing is for sure with Daniels - unless you have a lot of marathon experience or at least experience at running his types of plans you may as well throw your race prediction out the window and learn how to feel your paces.
• That being said - I'm certainly going to put less emphasis on vdots, paces and especially progressing vdots over the plan (as advised by Daniels). If I'm still running 6.52min marathon paced miles in ten weeks then so be it. The target is sub 3, build from there and get some marathon blocks together. Need to remember i'm a veteran at 10k 😂 but i'm a rookie at the 42.2k.

Next weeks sessions;

Q1: 1E/2x(2T off 2min)/60min E/1T/1E (doubled checked this to make sure its right - seems odd to have another 5 miles Thresh so soon after the 6T.

Q2: 6E/5x4min Interval off 3min/2E - ugh....not as bad looking as the last 5k session but still 20mins at 5k effort after 50mins of running. We'll see....

Treviso

Not much difference between a 3x2m and a 8x1m session - if I had to pick one, I'd go with the 8x1m as I find the longer tempos a lot more difficult. You have to remember as well that your body is being trained for a marathon, different mechanics are being worked on, so quicker sessions may feel more difficult compared to before. Plenty of people in our group run 5k or 10k races after a marathon block thinking they will easily PB, but get a quick shock to the system when the legs just don't react to the pace

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538769#Comment_118538769

That's actually reassuring to hear. Was wondering where the 10k guy in me was gone. 😆. Those 5k effort sessions in the Daniels plan are a lot tougher in a marathon block, obviously tougher with the extra miles in the warmup.

Interesting you say about people not seeing the gains at the shorter distances after marathon training. I guess people in the early stages of their running lives would but different story when you're more experienced. Effectively transitioning from marathon back to shorter stuff will make for some interesting research in May (hopefully).

AuldManKing

Good sessions there - I think you are over the hump of it - If you can manage that last week, you're gold.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539213#Comment_118539213

I hope you're right. Although I'm typically one poor sleep or one glass of wine too many away from the back and hips collapsing, the end of the world is nigh and i'll never be fit again.

the emerald Isle runner

Hey Swashbuckler Dermot Kearns here. Just letting you know I will be pacing the sub 3 this year. If you or anyone has a question let me know. Also If you know anyone else looking to break 3 let them know. I am willing to meet and run some sessions in the build up to Limerick👍

Swashbuckler

Good man Dermot. Welcome to Boards! I'll have plenty of questions for you in the next few months no doubt.

Cleanman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563014#Comment_118563014

Why do I get the feeling that Dermot just made a big mistake 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563951#Comment_118563951

😂😂😂

Aside from all the questions Dermot will likely finish up the year with three new pairs of Fuelcell TC, a pair of Alphafly and three pairs of Endorphin Speeds.

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563005#Comment_118563005

That’s class Dermot going above and beyond with that! Fair play to you

Lambay island

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563005#Comment_118563005

Lovely... Will you be doing even splits? @the emerald Isle runner

Swashbuckler

Great Limerick Marathon 2022 – Daniels 2Q Plan Week 5 – (27-Jan to 02-Feb)

Settling into this plan nicely. I always said Daniels was a genius didnt I?

Thursday, Jan 27th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 8 miles, 65mins, 8.10min/mile

This was grand. Run of the mill. A little tired but nothing to worry about. Can barely remember it.

Friday, Jan 28th

Plan: 1E/2x2T/60min Easy/1T/1E

Actual: 1E/2x2T/60min Easy/1T/2E

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Pro

Was pleasantly surprised at how well this one went. For once it was nice to get the threshold stuff out of the way early in the session. Then its a case of just picking back up after 60mins of easy running which is more than manageable for a solitary mile. Sticking with the mantra of whatever the paces will be will be and not forcing it. Can definitely feel these sessions, while still tough, are getting more manageable and not as daunting as they were. Had a nice feed afterwards too. Very happy with this one banked. The 60mins flew by. Added an extra mile to the cooldown and finished on 16 miles.

1E: 8.03

2T: 6.11/6.09

2T: 6.05/6.14

60mins Easy: 7.48/7.48/7.54/7.51/7.55/7.48/7.54/7.44

1T: 6.10

2E: 7.47/7.46

Total: 16 miles, 1hr57mins

Saturday, Jan 29th

Plan: Rest

Actual: Rest

Sunday, Jan 30th 

Plan: Easy plus strides

Actual: Easy plus strides, 6.9 miles, 1hr

Had a lonnnnnnnnggggggggggggg day solo parenting the three. Was glad to get out. Legs felt ok. The rest day helped. A bit drained from the kids.lol

Monday, Jan 31st

Plan: 6E/5x4mins off 3mins/2E

Actual: 6E/5x4mins off 3mins/2E

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Speed

Was sceptical/worried about this one as the last 5k session had taken it out of me a bit. Very windy day too. Long day at work with a big presentation late in the day....Getting the excuses in! ;)

By the time I got out it was 8pm and I was less than enthusiastic. Rather than pre program this into the watch I simply set the watch up for 10 x Lap Button Press with a recovery of Lap Button Press. That gave me the option of varying the session if I needed to, rather than force myself to go the 5 x 4mins route. Given the conditions and the day I had I said a few things to myself before starting out - forget paces and go by effort, be honest with yourself and ask yourself are you really putting in 5k effort - dont use weather as a cop out, try the 4mins and see how you go. With all that being said I felt reasonably lively out there but......it........was...........tough....5k effort is no joke on marathon legs, especially with a 6 mile warmup........

Strangely this one was easier than the previous 5k session which again, I'm taking as a good sign. The paces were in or around what I expected given the windy conditions but I made a point of putting in the effort while maintaining turnover and form. Always a sign im putting the effort in when the wheeze appears in my breathing a few mins into the rep. The recoveries of 3mins are generous but needed.

The Endorphin Speeds were excellent here. Ideal shoe for this session. Felt good on the cooldown but knew a nights work had been done - wouldnt have fancied another rep. Seemed like the wind was against me all night.

6E: 8.10/8.18/8.17/8.08/8.22.8.21

5 x 4min paces: 5.59/5.54/5.43/5.51/5.49

2E: 8.21/8.15

Total: 13.5 miles, 1hr45mins, 7.48min/mile average

Tuesday, Feb 1st

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 5M, 42mins, 8.21min/mile average

Least leggy I've been in this block the day after a session. Another good sign. Bad sleep the night before. Kids waking, in turns.....

Wednesday, Feb 2nd

Plan: Easy with strides

Actual: Easy 5.2 miles, 42mins30s, 8.10avg

Another desperate night sleep...Kids waking again....in turns, again..Probably got 3hrs sleep in total and was banjaxed. Should have rested but hey, *stubborn runner alert*. Was feeling a little peeved as it felt like two steps forward one step back in this block but after a decent night sleep last night I'm feeling much more positive today.

_______________________________________________________________________

Planned mileage for the week: 54

Actual mileage for the week: 54.6

Time on feet: 7hrs 12mins

Miles in the block to date: 263.6

Number of MP miles: 17

Number of Threshold miles: 25

Comments

• Like I said above much better this week. Seems like AMK (and others) may have been on to something when he said I was over the hump of it a couple of weeks ago. This week certainly felt "different". Tough for sure, but less of a stretch or a struggle.
• No obvious niggles which is good.
• Diet is pretty good but still snacking - sweet stuff leftover from the christening being my downfall.
• Sleep is generally good but a couple of dodgy nights this week.
• Definitely not racing Adare - the entry is there if anyone wants it (free). Transfers are open.
• Daniels is a genius - I always said it - never doubted him.

Next weeks sessions;

Q1: 120mins Easy (will push to 16 miles)

Q2: 40min E/3x2T off 2min/2E

Laineyfrecks

Great week there P, looks tough but glad to see you are settling into it & feeling more confident with the plan! It's not easy juggling it all, especially the lack of sleep but hopefully these are juat occasional distruptions ( maybe have a word with the kids😉🤣) In all seriousness you are well equipped to deal with these things sensibly, keep it up!

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577688#Comment_118577688

Thanks E. Good lord three is a challenge. I can't complain though. They two eldest are superstar sleepers. Just a phase for the four year old hopefully . Can't blame the newborn when daddy does a half ass job of winding her 😄