Will you be taking a booster?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369165#Comment_118369165

this cohort has "practically no immunity" from Omicron

Immunologists will need a good talking to after all this is over, a whole lot worse than some tabloid newspapers, some of them.

Vaccinated30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369052#Comment_118369052

It says they updated the advice last night. Good for them. I'm going by the old one which was the advise I got. My vaccinated immune system has dealt with Covid perfectly, as expected. So I won't be isolating or getting tested again.

Don't start with more information needing updated advice, they don't listen to the correct information, only whatever they want. Where is the peer reviewed study they've based their change on, the change they didn't even inform the public on.

All so they can protect themselves from facing up to the Health care system they failed

Good luck. I got vaxxed, I got covid, I'm done.

Vaccinated30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369091#Comment_118369091

The post was regarding Mem B and T cells not waning and meaning the Vaccines still work, as well you know.

There's many studies showing ABs stay elevated months after infection. Not to mention the vaxxed and infected like myself. I'd link it all to you, but we both know your agenda.

Enjoy your life of fear. I'm free from it all. ❤️

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369250#Comment_118369250

+1. Now this is completely anecdotal and a monumentally tiny sample size, but in the last ten days I've seen covid go through a few people in two households after it was introduced after one family member came back from London for Christmas. So likely omricon, it spread like mad and came on quickly in those who became symptomatic. All mild thankfully and only lasted a few days. There is a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated(the only ones I personally know) in this group. The vaccinated had the mildest illnesses or none at all and their symptoms lasted a shorter time. The unvaccinated complained more of fatigue. But overall as I say mild. The worst was "headcold with added fatigue".

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369312#Comment_118369312

This was your statement:

The difference is the virus will then give you immunity and no amount of boosters can do that for you.

Which is false, the virus and the boosters can both give you immunity via antibodies, B and T cells, there is very little difference between them. The waning by infection is the same as the waning from the vaccines (antibody count dropping). It's one of the reasons we'll start seeing higher rates of reinfections occur (and one of the reasons that pursuing herd immunity by infection was a hugely flawed concept).

PTH2009

Mornings after my booster my arm is still a little sore but rest of body seems fine

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369065#Comment_118369065

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/pfizer-moderna-turn-up-covid-19-vaccine-prices-europe-as-companies-plot-deliveries-into-2022

Its actually more, provided they get everyone to take it

ceegee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367170#Comment_118367170

That's a bit like arguing that being pregnant is a better form of contraception than a condom.

While recovered covid patients may have higher antibody levels than a vaccinated person, the goal has never been to have a more antibodies, its to have more antibodies so that you don't get covid in the first place.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369618#Comment_118369618

Actually there is quite the difference. Those who caught covid 19 and then were vaccinated later on demonstrated a much more robust defence. They gained a "super immunity". And to more mutations, including ones that haven't happened in nature yet. Their memory cells seem to be more active in producing antibodies when required and last much longer. Something the vaccinated alone don't demonstrate. A few studies have seen this effect. One of the earlier ones was concerning people who had recovered from the far more deadly SARS outbreak and who had also been vaccinated against the current Covid 19. Their immune response got medieval on all introduced coronavirus in that family, including those that haven't even jumped from animals.

This is NOT to suggest get covid and you'll be grand. Being vaccinated is by far the better bet and by a magnitude more so for those in the demographics more vulnerable to this virus. However it's looking very much like those who've caught covid and been subsequently vaccinated show a more consistent, more robust and more longer lasting and more wide ranging immune response than those who have been vaccinated alone. Hence boosters being required in the latter.

So it seems catching covid with a shot of vaccine on top is currently the best bet for long term immunity from anything but a two day "bug". Omricon which is looking significantly more mild than previous strains and more infectious spreading in a majority vaccinated population could give that population "herd immunity" in short enough order. If I were an investor I'd be quietly moving my money out of moderna/pfizer/Janssen. Or moving my money into those getting more old style deactivated whole virus vaccines on stream, which I suspect will give a similar result. For the moment anyway.

Masala

Jaysus..... 11,182 cases today Xmas Eve.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370050#Comment_118370050

And so far hospital admissions remain low. That's what matters, not cases.

mary 2021

Uk just announced that the booster has a 10 week validity & a fourth one will be necessary....... I am starting to understand the thinking the Italian dentist had when he presented the fake arm !!

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369704#Comment_118369704

The claim was something like $120bn. How do you get at that number from your link?

Amias

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370050#Comment_118370050

I found it amazing that they chose today to add 1000s in backlog positive swabs. I wonder why…………

agoodpunt

helps Maintain booster demand

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370090#Comment_118370090

😁

Now Omricon is on the go and I almost certainly was exposed to it a week ago and had two positive antigen tests, but a negative on the PCR a couple of days later, unless Omricon starts to ramp up the ICU and death figures in those that aren't already very ill, immunocompromised, 70+ or not already vaccinated last year, I'll not be bothering with any boosters of any of the current lot. Hell, of that group of positives I was exposed to the ones with the worst symptoms(but still mild) were the unvaccinated eejits and three who'd been vaccinated in the summer and got boosters within the last few weeks. Though the unvaccinated are over the main headcold symptoms they definitely have a lot more lingering fatigue.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369888#Comment_118369888

Sinovac/pharm is whole deactivated virus but has a much lower efficacy than the others. Novavax is again aiming at the spike specifically. The advantage with mRNA (and to a lesser extent adenovector) is that if a stable part of the virus is found, those proteins can be specifically targeted without much retooling. It's much more likely that we'll see traditional vaccines move to mRNA (especially now that the manufacturing capability is there) than vice vera.

Unless of course the "bomb" goes off.

From an investing perspective, the money will follow the treatments as it always does, vaccines tend not to generate the big bucks.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370100#Comment_118370100

1 dose for everyone. Not everyone will get a vaccine from the same company and not every country will ever achieve 90% but there is still fierce money in selling boosters

appledrop

34 weeks pregnant and don't know what to do about the booster.

The issue isn't booster itself but fact I only received my 2nd dose in Sept.

I don't want to be the pregnant guinea pig at this late stage in my pregnancy.

Two weeks ago rule was not to take it unless 6mths gap, then 5 mths now suddenly 3 but absolutely no studies on outcome for people who get a booster after only 3mths, especially pregnant women.

Gp pressuring me to take it, but in same breath I'm not allowed take a cough bottle to help with really bad chest infection as not safe.

Ffs whole thing is a mess.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370193#Comment_118370193

Sinovac isn't that bad looking at real world results. It's not good at preventing breakthrough infections, but protection against serious illness and death is pretty high.(80-90% depending on study). It completely transformed one town of over 40,000. It's also about the easiest one to transport and use in the fileld, particularly in developing countries. And I say that as someone whose general position is(with apologies to Swift) burn everything Chinese except their coal.

Maybe they should be looking at a whole deactivated virus and a protein spike vaccine as a booster, or vice versa. If "natural" infection plus a spike vaccine gives much better, longer lasting and wider protection over spike vaccines on their own that would seem a logical route to look into. Given, at least in Europe, the majority are already vaccinated, the huge upswing in Omricon mild infections could very well achieve the same thing.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370303#Comment_118370303

It's been ok, other vaccines have been cancelled due to similar efficacy (and I have family members who've taken it and had no issues), it's certainly not a panacea for vaccine development, even Novavax, while using older tech for the protein, is using novel technology for stimulating the immune system (maybe that combined with a deactivated virus would work?) the mRNA vaccines efficacy is so high in comparison that it's hard for the others to compete (unless they find a way to stimulate a longer term response, which I don't believe the vaccines have much control over). Its also a case of following the money, most of those not in the mRNA space are moving into it, Pfizer has it's own giant database of results and dosing effects and booster effects from Israel to pore over, Janssen appear to be happy with the adenovector platform but we'll see how long that lasts for.

However, I'd also predict that post pandemic, vaccines will drop down the list (they're too cost efficient and morally they tend to let them get produced generically) and treatment and condition management will become their bread and butter again.

I also did a check, but China are also moving into the mRNA space with a booster in trials (their "efficient" rollout gets around the vaccine hesitancy issues other countries have).

Also, incidentally, Novavax have traditionally been big on flu vaccines and have a combined flu/COVID vaccine in development that could become the annual booster (Moderna are also looking at this and have had good results recently after earlier disappointing results), a seasonal COVID/Flu vaccine (if Summer numbers dip) could be an acceptable level of shots for people to get (nasal vaccines still seem to be a while away, even if Putin got one recently):

Study confirms co-efficacy of Novavax Covid vaccine with flu vaccines – (in-24.com)

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370986#Comment_118370986

unless they find a way to stimulate a longer term response, which I don't believe the vaccines have much control over

Not currently Astro, but if recovered covid(and SARS/MERS) people with a vaccine on top show a super immunity and one that lasts longer and is more wide ranging and kicks all of that family of viruses in the nads, even ones that haven't jumped to humans yet, that certainly seems to be a pretty good avenue to explore. If you can trigger the same response as "natural" immunity, without all the death and gnashing of teeth of course.

Viral vectors have a problem because of the viral vector. Your body doesn't just build resistance to the add on part, it can also build resistance to the viral vector itself so after a few doses your immune system is like "yeah feck off, you're not coming in wearing those shoes, and no I don't care if you've got important info for the boss".

The mRNA vaccines have a singular problem of their own, which is part of their advantage too because you can be precise; they trigger responses to one part of the virus in question. Hopefully the very stable part. The problem with that is if the part isn't stable, or worse, actively vaccinating(which you have to do) in an ongoing pandemic with a leaky vaccine puts huge selective pressure on the virus to change that stable part, especially in immunocompromised folks who take ages to flush the pox. A few of us on here mused about this earlier in the year and tbh I'm shocked that this hasn't happened yet.

Though we do have omricon. The sheer number of changes and rapid ones with it and all over the genome and no(as far as I've read anyway?) obvious ancestry to the line is bloody weird. Unless someone who actually knows their shít can explain why it's not so weird? Put it this way if I wanted to cook up a deadly virus for humans, I'd have a load of domestic animals in close proximity in unsanitary conditions, close to wildlife and then slap them all together in some (sadly not)medieval shambles/wet market that would be a great DIY start. If I wanted to create a vaccine to this pox, I'd push it through cultures of immunocompromised cells(or even people, if my surname were Mengele), add a common cold virus and leave it for a few weeks to cook and hopefully get a mild virus with a load of changes to cover future varaints and that transmits like a bastard but gives more all around protection to the nasty bastard variant. Deactivate it and wait for the billions to hit my paypal account. 😁

Now major feckin caveat Astro; this is most certainly CT forum fodder. 😮😁 But when the dust all settles and this pox is behind us, if it turns out Covid 19 was a gain of function fcukup that leaked from a Chinese lab, I'll be surprised, but not too surprised. And if it turns out Omricon was something similar but in a more positive way that also leaked, I'll be a lot more surprised alright, but not utterly gobsmacked. Though I have one major difference to the usual CT folks; they assume intent, I presume incompetence. On that basis alone I'm far more likely to be right. 😁

agoodpunt

no

Multipass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371265#Comment_118371265

I had the same thought as your final paragraph, but was too scared to say it out loud here. I’d be amazed if labs in certain unfriendly countries aren’t fiddling with this virus.

snowcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369250#Comment_118369250

Yes Luke the God was saying they are all great vaccines and take any one. Turns out they are all a bit meh.Some decidedly more meh then others. They dont prevent transmission. With latest figures it looks like the most vaccinated countries have the highest transmission rates. Is that behaviour among vaccinated or something else? They do seem to reduce mortality. But cases no. Lets hope the next more mutant variants dont arise from the spread in the now vaxxed populace spreading the majority of it and are more lethal to all.

questionmark?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118365581#Comment_118365581

Same here. Mid 30's and double jabbed with Moderna. Struggling to justify getting a booster at the moment, not against it but very much on the fence. I really wish they would come out and explain clearly the benefits of a booster(maybe they have so happy to be corrected) to those under 40 who don't have health issues.

ShayNanigan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367518#Comment_118367518

It has hit me big time... woke up 5 am. in pain today. Still aching, the under arm is the worst. Temp about 37.4 now, headache and I feel like my clothes are hurting me. In other words, not feeling very festive. Could hardly eat and was ready for bed at 7 pm. Hopefully tomorrow is better.

Edit: 37.7 now...

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371533#Comment_118371533

For what it's worth, I got a swollen armpit on Weds morning after jab on Monday, and that was the last day I felt rough, so that was really the tail end of it.

The next day I was doing physical work all day until around 8pm and powered through it with no problems.

Hope today is better for you!

mvl

anyone heard how the HSE is meant to handle 3rd dose done in another EU country (in the context of the 9 months validity), when the individual's initial certificate is from Ireland ?

(doesn't seem to be a connection there yet, no mention of 3rd dose here - gov.ie - EU Digital COVID Certificate (www.gov.ie))

Georgia22

Had mine - Moderna - 10 days ago at the Richmond Barracks. Felt fine that evening and low grade headache the next morning but by lunchtime I felt really rough and by evening had a fever but it was gone by the next day but the arm was painful for about 3 days.