Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109109#Comment_121109109

You can go above that limit. But need to pay ~€1000 to EBS and move to an NC7 form from the free NC6. Plus there may be additional costs if ESB kit needs to be upgraded. There is some ESB website that shows spare capacity at you local transformer. If there is capacity, you're les likely to need to pay them for upgrades on their kit.

That's worth looking at if you've a lot of cash and want to fill the roof. While FIT is a healthy ~20c per kWh exported, you're on a winner. But FIT isn't guaranteed. Liable for tax above €200 in FIT per named individual on the electricity bill. That said, there are some larger micro gen schemes that pay a minimum FIT. Meaning less risk of losing FIT payments. But you'd have to check if they are available for residential. They are for likes of businesses, farms afaik.

shooter69

Got a quote below : sound overpriced or about right ??

17 x JKM425N-54HL4-B 425 Watt Panels (Jinko Solar Co., Ltd.)

1 x Giv-HY5.0 V3 (GivEnergy)

1 x Giv-Bat9.5 (GivEnergy)

Total System Price

€15,250.00

Purchase Price

€15,250.00

Additional Incentives

SEAI Grant

€2,400.00

Net System Cost

€12,850.00

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111088#Comment_121111088

Do you use more than 5000kwh per annum? If it will knock €642 off your bill every year for twenty years without any failure, you'll break even. It will need to displace about 3200 kwh consumption per annum over this time to achieve that, or 9kwh/day, on average, roughly 2 kwh/day in winter to 16kwh/day in summer, and based on an average saving of 20c/unit from the average of self consumption and FIT. Your panels have the capacity to produce about 5000 kwh per annum based on expected annual output of 700kwh per Kw peak of panel. You have 17 x 425w, 7.225 Kw Peak.

Efficiency losses through battery transfer, unused peak midday summer output when FIT to grid is restricted to 5KW and midday self consumption might be zero, and degradation of battery and panels over 20 years will reduce this 5000 kwh/annum somewhat, but you should be quids in to reach the break even point and exceed it. Falling energy prices will affect the calculation.

Without the grant I don't think any current solar quotes are economically viable if unit electricity prices drop below 30c daytime, with FIT falling to below 10c inevitably. Greedflation and installation costs are just ridiculous. All the above assumes you won't have any major maintenance bill over the 20 years, but realistically,you should factor in about €1500 to €2000 minimum over the life of the system, (battery only good for ten if you're lucky), and assume it will still be giving something back in 20 years, as its going to cost as much or more to strip out and replace, without a grant this time.

I'm assuming without bothering to check that the Giv HY5.0 can comfortably shift peak 7kw output to battery and grid simultaneously. I haven't factored potential savings of winter off peak nighttime charging to the battery, as I consider the penalty of daytime rates when in a smart plan outweighs the marginal saving of time shifted energy with charge/discharge losses of about 20%, plus the faster degradation of the battery lifespan. last thing you want to be doing is buying 8kwh usable battery charge at a consumption of 10 night rate kwh, only for it to virtually go into FIT on a sunny afternoon, earning a fraction of the cost to you. Have you a priced for the installation without the battery? If you're getting such a large battery, can your system operate off grid to give you power failure backup? I'll have a look at the Giv HY5 inverter specs, but I doubt it.

Edit. Just had a quick look, the HY5 can deliver up to 2.5kwk to backup. It's not clear without installation details if this is whole house or selected circuit, I'm guessing the latter, but it would be a worthwhile feature, particularly in a rural area. Check that the installer knows how to wire this. Its trivial for a competent electrician, but it doesn't mean they won't want to wiggle out if doing it, in the rush to the next job.

shooter69

What a great and detailed response and thanks very much , plenty to think about and I will have an in depth look over weekend . Energy prices “seem” to be dropping so I take your point regarding whether it’s worth it , they have quoted for same system without battery €10,650 before Grant so €8250 after

thanks again and much appreciated 👍👍

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121119724#Comment_121119724

Thats just the materials, probably just panels and inverter.Here, 18kwh, 42 panels about 5 grand, maybe 1500 for inverter(s), a grand for cables and brackets maybe. That would be mostly an off grid system.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121119724#Comment_121119724

Would you not post the quotes so others can see?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121119724#Comment_121119724

Doing a rough cost of parts only that's about right for parts only +vat, if you buy right. But no battery.

But that isn't installed etc.

But ship hasn't sailed on getting solar, but sorting out the good value from the ones taking the hand can be difficult

Jonathan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109109#Comment_121109109

I wouldn't sweat it. See graphs below from a 5kW (not 6kW!) Solis inverter in force discharge mode (PV supplemented by battery). Output is 5.6kW (23.8A @ 239V). Just shy of datasheet limit of 23.9A.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120416#Comment_121120416

We don't know what you were quoted for though! That's the idea of the thread, posters put up quotes for guidance and so others can see what other installers are charging whether good or bad value. If you don't want to that's fine though but it's why the thread is here. There is still good value out there so you just need to find the right installer.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120419#Comment_121120419

If home consumption was zero at that point, it would appear that youre pumping 5.67Kw into the grid, but from reading other posts it seems FT is calculated in at 200 volts, not the average voltage of the inverter used to push it onto the grid, or the nominal supply voltage of 230v. So though you delivered at 5.678Kw to the grid, it calculates as only 4.76Kw into FIT (200v by 23.88a), 16% less. This is a margin the utilities give themselves to cover the losses your feed in incurs in powering someone else's supply. It also mean means you're below the 5kwh limit, as you would have to push the allowed max of 25A multiplied by the feed in 200v calculated voltage to achieve 5kw FIT. As you can see from the voltage chart, actual inverter to grid voltage swings up and down by several volts depending on the local load, but is above the nominal 230v of the grid.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120601#Comment_121120601

You get paid FIT in kWh, whatever the voltage and current is at that specific time that the meter measures it.

Its just inverter size limits on installation that there is a 25 amp limit on the inverter, and the MEC (max export capacity) is calculated on the higher end of the grid spec anyway, (well possibly the nominal voltage (230v)

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120633#Comment_121120633

I'm sure I read it was calculated at 200v, which would explain max 5kw when you input max 25A, even though you're pushing in at 235-240v. The old meters might have run backwards at this real kw rate, but the smart meters can report what they like, they're, er, smart. It's a small issue, but it does mean you can consume 5kwh locally, saving the cost of 5 units, or get only about 4.2kwh rebate at the FIT rate for the same output, so you should strive to use it yourself.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120695#Comment_121120695

The spec is 25 amps, not kW.

Take the 5.5kW sunsynk, it's rated power is 22.7amps but it can max out at 25 amps

It also has a max output of 5.5kw.

It's mostly 5kw inverters because most come in steps of 1kw.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121121026#Comment_121121026

I assumed readers would know that Watts are amps by volts, Power, P in watts = V volts by I amps. Anyway, current, or I, of 25A from source of 200v into a load delivers 25 by 200 w, 5000 watts, or 5Kw, the input limit. The fact that an inverter is delivering this at about 238v means it is transferring 5.96 Kw at maximum current of 25A, but your FIT is calculated at a nominal voltage of 200v, so you're only paid for 5Kw max. I'll look back to see where I read this FIT payment voltage , I'm sure it was here, but I've read dozens of other articles since and can't remember exactly where I seen it.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121121150#Comment_121121150

Its not a 5kW limit. Its a 25amp limit. A 5.5kW inverter, is allowed, A 5.75kW inverter is also allowed, As long as it stays under the amperage limit.

But the nominal voltage of our grid is 230v, +/- 15% I have not seen anywhere where the feed in tariff is calculated on the minimum voltage of the grid.

ESBN's Maximum Import Capacity, in VA, is calculated on the lower end of the grid, eg a 12KVA supply, is a 63amp fuse, a 16kVA is an 80 amp fuse (well house fuse is 63/80, main esbn fuse is 80/100)

There just arent many inverters that are between 5 and 6 kw. 6kw inverters can go too high, 27.5 amps but in reality due to grid voltages it rarely even passes 25.

Seventy Plus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120504#Comment_121120504

Not easy finding the right installer

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121123711#Comment_121123711

Tell me about it! I spent all of 2021 researching here and contacting numerous installers with plenty of them not responding or not showing up for surveys but kept at it until I eventually got a good price and good installer and got installed in Feb 22. I'm not saying it's easy to find one just you need to keep going until you do.

mathie

Tails upgrade?

So we are getting solar PV in our house and company is looking for 750 for a "tails upgrade".

First time this fee was mentioned. (we had agreed a price for the whole job)

Anyone know if that is to be expected?

We had to get earth bonding done as the cable wasn't good enough for the house.

Thanks

EDIT: Just rang ESB and they charge 186 for a tails upgrade. Trying to find out from install company what makes up the rest of the 750 euro.

EDIT 2: Company saying 750 is their fee (on top of the 186 for the ESB) "You pay 186 to the ESB to reconnect after we install our cable and then we have to test the whole house after and certify"

billy_beckham

Think it's the cable between meter and fuse/mcb board. Mustn't be 16sq??

deezell

16square 3 core about €8/metre. How far is your meter from your fuse board, 5 metre? Subtract €40 from the €750, thats the labour charge for swapping out.

mathie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125763#Comment_121125763

Less than one metre as far as I can see.

Also "Testing the whole house".

OK fair enough we have had a new earth put in but it just seems extortionate.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125959#Comment_121125959

They must think you came down in the last shower. It's funny how the gouging created by the feeding frenzy of grant driven demand becomes contagious, until every one who looks in the gate of a site expects a grand in their arse pocket. Look at any public project. Bills of tens of millions before a sod is turned. Grants are the worst thing that happen an industry, totally distorting the market, creating an atmosphere of greed and grabbing. A few years ago you'd pay €1300 to have your wall thermostat swapped out for a grant aided smart one, costing maybe €180 trade. Or less.

mathie

FWIW "all electrical testing" was outlined on the invoice.

deezell

Testing the whole house surely isn't necessary for a tail change. If it was necessary at all, it would be as a result of installing PV, of strapping an inverter across the grid, via a new current circuit breaker (60A if I'm not mistaken) and an additional RCB, part of the PV install. I'm sure they would have to do a quick tour of the house and activate appliances while the inverter was on grid and generating to make sure nothing trips out. This 'testing' may already be a requirement of signing off the form for the grant and microgen. Increasing the current capacity of a metre of cable can't introduce a whole new set of checks that would already be signed off on for the PV install.

It stinks of dodgy car repair tricks, "we'll service your car for €150', then "oh look, we found this and this....". They plucked €750 out of their arse, one of them must want to go to the world cup for a match.

Did they survey the site prior to quote? In that case tell them to f off. They surely inspected the meter box and fuse board.

joy123

Hello , Just want your opinion on pricing. ******* qoute us 16k without Grant for 12 x Qcell 400W, 1 x 5kwh solis hybrid inverter, 1x 5k hybrid battery for our SE house. Sound too expensive for me. our daily usage is 20kwh, 98% from 8AM-11PM. ROI would be around 10 years. Still waiting for the Engineer visit for survey. What ye think? should I ask 18 PV, 8kW inverter and 10kW battery to make sure I can be on off grid on winter?

DC999

Mod note, removed the quote as the name as still being visible in the quote

No mentioning installers please. What you've seen is that some are veryyyyyy expensive and solar kit is solar kit. It just works. I'd suggest get more quotes

graememk

Esbn won't upgrade the tails until a new cert is issued for the house. New certificate needed, so whole house needs to be tested.

Some tails are woefully undersized in some houses, and also should have been checked before the quote, eg photo of consumer unit, photos of meter box.

Cropping up on EV charge point installs too.

My house, built in the early 80's only had 10mm2 tails.

idc

@joy123 not quoting your post as it still displays the installer name!

But even with 18 x 400W PV is only 7.2kWp plus a 10kWh battery. No chance of being off grid in winter with that. I have 5.9kWp with 10kW battery and this week alone have been filling my battery on night rate to get through the day and avoid paying for day rate electricity . My panels facing SE/SW and last 3 days generated between 2 and 4 kWh per day. Sorry but you have zero chance to be off grid in winter with that. Secondly to get a 8kW inverter requires extra expense for a NC7 connection.

deezell

This 'testing' prior to issuing a cert, is required on a new build, an extension, or 'alterations'.

"A validated Electrical Completion Certificate, where applicable, must be sent to ESB Networks by the electrical contractor's regulatory body before any connection work can commence. Every customer should receive a copy of an Electrical Completion Certificate whenever electrical work is completed.Make sure you keep your copy of the certificate. This requirement helps to ensure your safety. Typical situations where a completion certificate is required are:

• Building an extension to an existing dwelling or premises
• Building a new dwelling or premises 
• Altering the internal electrical wiring in any existing dwelling or premises
• Reconnecting a dwelling or premises that has been disconnected for more than six months...

So, surely this cert is issued at the end of a PV installation, regardless of if the work includes new tails? Strapping a PV onto the grid is definitely an "alteration". Are PV installers not required to provide this certification?

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121126878#Comment_121126878

Here's mine from when they were installing 😳 and yes I have no idea how the house didn't burn down!