Is Ireland Racist?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325355#Comment_118325355

Because those objecting have no sense of scale. Ethnic cleansing by the destruction of a specific culture, is the same as the genocide of an entire people... regardless of the circumstances.

Fandymo

The multiculturalists are the most racist on Boards. watch how they'll tell you we should bring in people from Africa/Asia/Arabia etc because multiculturalism is great. They only want greatness for their European countries and screw the rest of the world. They never talk about/decide to go to Nigeria and spread multiculturalism, why let black countries share in the greatness of multiculturalism??? New world colonisers, want to take the best and brightest and fcuk the rest of Africa.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325355#Comment_118325355

By his logic Ireland has already been culturally cleansed, outside of Gaeltacht areas.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325444#Comment_118325444

People have gone to where there are better resources/opportunities since the dawn of mankind. People want to come to Europe because that's where they think they have the best chance at prosperity. It's no different to the Irish heading to across the Atlantic or Irish Sea.

Now, if you were making the argument that European countries exploit developing countries, I'd be right there with you. Alas, that's not the argument you're making above.

And I'm sure those that are anti-immigration are terribly concerned about life in Nigeria and the welfare of the average Nigerian...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325355#Comment_118325355

Which is not what the poster said, at all.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325380#Comment_118325380

I have no issue with making the life of travellers better.

What I wouldn't advocate for however, is the total destruction of one cultures and the forced integration into a majority culture.

What I wouldn't do is look down on other people and decide that their culture should die out. And presume that I know better then they.

as I said, discrimination against travellers is acceptable here in Ireland. Replace traveller with any other ethnicity.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325688#Comment_118325688

Discrimination against Travellers is not acceptable in Ireland.. and we have laws in force to reduce it from happening. However, due to the history of Travellers in this country, and the experiences of people with them, negative biases exist for the individual. Replacing Travellers with another cultural group doesn't change anything. except that people likely have no personal experiences with the other group. You seem to want to ignore the negative reputation that Travellers have due to their activities in Ireland as a group.

Continuing to support Traveller culture, means that the vast majority of Travellers will not break from that culture, and will continue to experience the vast array of negatives coming from that culture. Throwing money and benefits at them, will not change that. Which is why your claim to wanting a better life for Travellers rings false.

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325644#Comment_118325644

Looks like it to me. There's the poster's paragraph below.

Calling for the death of a culture, because you don't like it, and you think that you know better, is calling for ethnic cleansing.

And you can write all the essays you want, but that's what it boils down to. Replace traveller with any other ethnicity or race.

And by the way, asking one culture to stop breaking the law and behaving in an antisocial way is hardly ethnic cleansing. You can be an ethnic traveller and still obey the law, but that doesn't seem to be a priority amongst that culture.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325774#Comment_118325774

Rings false, lol.

I have no problem identifying negative aspects of traveller culture. Doesn t mean that I presume to know better then they, not would I advocate their disappearance, when many other things could be done.

There is nothing more acceptable then discrimination against travellers, as seen in this very thread, when posts calling for ethnic cleansing are allowed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325609#Comment_118325609

And I'm sure those that are anti-immigration are terribly concerned about life in Nigeria and the welfare of the average Nigerian...

I'd say that depends on who you talk to. There's quite a few posters on the multiculturalism thread who would have such concerns, although even without those concerns, there's some simple logic involved. A brain drain from Nigeria into Ireland or Europe, decreases the chance of positive social/cultural change, because the people most likely to appreciate Western values, will leave, and also the brain drain takes away the skilled/educated as these are the people most likely to succeed in a first world nation. So, encouraging immigration from Nigeria, decreases the success of Nigeria as a nation, which increases the desire by Nigerians to leave... and most would prefer to move to a first world nation, due to the benefits, and levels of potential income. And so the amount of migrants increases. A successful Nigeria would retain far more of it's population, and migrants would more likely to be temporary because they've got a successful/stable nation to return to.

People have gone to where there are better resources/opportunities since the dawn of mankind.

Except they haven't. In the past travel was difficult, expensive, and often dangerous. It's only with technological progress, that we've seen migration patterns change. Most people stayed locally, or moved to somewhere relatively close by, because of the effort involved in travelling. It's only really in the last 100 years that we've seen large numbers of people moving anywhere, and for most of the century, that was as a result of conflict. There's only a few nations that were built on immigration, and even then, the populations of migrants involved in the past, were quite low compared with nowadays.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325838#Comment_118325838

You seem to have a reading and comprehension issue. The poster advocates for the killing of their culture, to integrate then into society to the extent that there are no more travellers.

I don't know where you're coming up with rubbish about obeying the law. Everybody is subject to the same laws in this country. Everybody is expected to obey the law.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325845#Comment_118325845

Wow. You really are incapable of dealing with the post as it's written. Every time there's a deflection within your posts.

Forget it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325609#Comment_118325609

Where does that exploitation happen?

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325845#Comment_118325845

I see posts calling for travellers to obey the law and to stop engaging in antisocial activities, you see posts calling for the ethnic cleansing of travellers.

Genuine question. Do you think it's ethnic cleansing to ask the travellers to get rid of the negative aspects of traveller culture such as the high level of criminality, shocking levels of animal cruelty, antisocial behaviour etc and keep the positive aspects of their culture such as singing, good boxers etc?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325838#Comment_118325838

We don't need to destroy any culture. Simply stop financing/supporting it. When Travellers find that their culture cannot provide them with jobs and an income, the vast majority will leave to find something better.

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325865#Comment_118325865

Yes. And traveller's disproportionately don't. That is a cultural issue.

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325919#Comment_118325919

But we are going the opposite way. The Government/EU are bending over backwards to finance/support it.

By the way, I'm not seeking to destroy a culture. I'm seeking to remove the rampant criminality/antisocial aspect of the culture.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325845#Comment_118325845

I didn’t read what he said exactly. It seems to me though that some aspects of travelling culture have to change if the discrimination you talk of is to disappear. Clearly if 50% of travellers were to go to university and become doctors, accountants and nurses then their travelling culture can’t co-exist with those jobs, and if the travelling culture is to continue to exist as it presently exists then they can’t really have those jobs, or need that education.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325609#Comment_118325609

People have travelled since the dawn of time.

However, people haven’t gone on about multiculturalism being a “strength” and the best thing since sliced bread since the dawn of time. If it is so good as it’s supporters never tire of saying, why aren’t they bringing it to Africa, rather than hoarding it in Europe while Africa suffers from a lack of multiculturalism??

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325969#Comment_118325969

I know one traveller who is very proud of who he is and of his background, the same man works in international banking.

I know two travellers who are members of AGS, both are proud of who they are.

that's just 3 known personally to me, no issues with their ethnicity stopping them from working.

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326131#Comment_118326131

Do these people live in caravans or mobile homes, or are they settled traveller's?

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326131#Comment_118326131

So what your saying is if travellers obey the law and participate positively with Irish society they can be successful and do so without having to have their culture ripped from them ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326131#Comment_118326131

Take a look at the overall statistics for Travellers in Ireland. The vast majority are unemployed, and a sizable percentage are claiming disability allowance. We can all refer to individuals who manage to do well (just as we can refer to those who don't), while remaining Travellers, but the majority don't. Which is borne out in the statistics.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326131#Comment_118326131

i know travellers who work normal jobs too, so what’s left of their travelling culture?

despite the ethnic classification travellers are a subset of Irish people and culture (it’s the left who have racialised travellers, never historically the Irish State) and if they take on the jobs of the “settled” classes they will disappear. Travellers are not a visible minority.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326161#Comment_118326161

You do know there are criminals in every level of society? It isn't part of any culture. Criminality is just that, criminality. Not culture

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325865#Comment_118325865

Yes, everybody is subject to the same laws but certain sections of society don't seem as intent on obeying them as others.

Travellers make up approximately 0.6% of the Irish population yet account for 10% of the male prison population and 22% of the female prison population. That statistic tells me that they have a significant problem obeying the same laws you say we are all subjected to.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/disproportionate-number-of-travellers-in-prison-population-1.3263524

And the narrative seems to be how to improve how we interact with travellers, how we are failing travellers and fcukall about how the travellers are failing us and how they need to improve and bring their customs and practices onto the right side of the law.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326181#Comment_118326181

Criminals exist everywhere. It's not a culture, it's criminality.

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326178#Comment_118326178

So therefore Ireland doesn't hold travellers back because they are an "ethnic minority".

It's the travellers own behaviours and attitudes towards wider Irish society that stops them from being successful like your friends. You are basically proving that Ireland isn't a racist society towards travellers (again not a different race)

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324257#Comment_118324257

You just don't see it do you?

Several times now you have implied that the only things that can be considered as emblematic of Traveller culture are things that should be removed.

That is why people roll their eyes reading about 'Oh we're not complaining about everyone'. You have, in repeated posts, stated the only things that you think make them identifiable as a distinct ethnic group should be targeted and removed. I must admit, I was quite taken back reading your last paragraph. It seems to me quite sinister for someone working with travellers to have such strong feelings about their culture and surely you should disclose these views to those who hire you to engage with them. There are many issues people within the traveller culture experience (both from within as well as from outside their community), and there is no question that action should be taken to help overcome those issues. But advocating trying to eradicate their culture because of your apathy towards it is not the way to go. And before you or anyone else runs off to report this post for talking about you , you introduced your specific engagement with travellers and I am talking about that very much in the context of what you have posted here.

Let me ask you a question, would you let the people who hired you to teach travellers to read this post, that included this comment and specifically the bit in bold?

Rather than discuss the idea the Travellers would be healthier, safer, happier, etc without Traveller culture, instead, the view is to talk about ethnic cleansing or the push the outrage over being racist

Or how about the travellers sitting in front of you to be taught, would you make such a statement to them? And it is quite incredible to write that bit shown in bold, and then within the same sentence be annoyed that people are comparing it to the practices of ethnic cleansing.

As for 'woke posts' being hyper agressive? That made me laugh, Look at post #355. Just 4 posts before your own. What would you describe that style?

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326200#Comment_118326200

Yet it seems more pervasive in traveller culture than in the settled community given those prison statistics I quoted. The traveller population is 0.6% of the population. That's a known fact. The number of females in Ireland is slightly more than the number of males (98.59 males per 100 females) so it's fair to say that traveller women make up 0.3% of the population yet they account for 22% of those in prison. That's a fair fcuking statistic right there.

But go ahead and keep arguing that there's not a culture of criminality in the travelling community.