Is Ireland Racist?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292246#Comment_118292246

Not to worry... there is also the theory of subconscious/unconscious racism, where you are not aware of being the racist that you are, but others can tell you that you are this way. Every possibility is covered if they want to call you a racist.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292146#Comment_118292146

You do realise by the standards/logic of the people hitting my posts about being racist... your first sentence would be considered racist. Or is there a secret handshake that allows you to state such without criticism?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291295#Comment_118291295

'Um... please point out where I said anything about the behavior of travellers'

I did, twice. But you ignored it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288956#Comment_118288956

'The racism directed towards Travellers exists because their behavior is offensive to many Irish people.'

Here it is again, just in case you don't remember

thefallingman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292413#Comment_118292413

The guys post was so incoherent I wasn’t sure what to say

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292337#Comment_118292337

You're living in a dream world if you think that the identification of negative practices as being part of a culture does not lead to the denigration of all people associated or identifiable in any way with that culture. The 'No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish' signs didn't come with an asterisk clarifying that it only applied to specific people within those groups who behaved in a certain way. It was a wide sweeping judgement on all people belonging to a specific group whether it was because of the actions of a few, or many, everyone was treated in a prejudicial way. That is the literal text book definition of racism;

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group

John Doe1

Wokist: Notices someone is a certain colour and treats them differently as a result

Racist: Notices someone is a certain colour and treats them differently as a result

99% of Irish people : Doesnt care about colour and judges by character

John Doe1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292146#Comment_118292146

I was treated a 'just a bit different' as a working class culchie from Donegal when i first attended Trinity College back in the day.

Does that mean I can claim victimhood too, class!

There is nothing covert about actual racism.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292636#Comment_118292636

Can you give an example of a public 'wokist' so I've some idea what you are talking about.

Whatever, they are, do you think they are comparable to racists, in terms of the negative impact to society or the individual who they are encountering and treating differently, in your view?

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292337#Comment_118292337

If you wouldn't have an issue with Boris Johnson making a statement that terrorism in Northern Ireland was/is due to 'Irish culture' then you would be one of very few people who wouldn't take some issue with it.

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292460#Comment_118292460

What? So one can never identify negative aspects of a particular culture, because doing so is racist?

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292636#Comment_118292636

Those who claim to be 'colour blind': Refuse or are incapable of acknowledging their own biases and are so self-absorbed that they refuse to listen or believe the experiences of minorities who are treated differently

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292938#Comment_118292938

Is this something that is categorically and unquestionably part of a cultural practice and something that significant people within that cultural group accept is their practice, or an aspect that is being ascribed as such. Because of it is the former, then no, if it is the latter, then yes.

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293004#Comment_118293004

Oh right, so it depends is what you are saying.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293044#Comment_118293044

Is that a surprise to you?

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293069#Comment_118293069

Coming from you? Ye.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292938#Comment_118292938

This is where the racism of the anti-racists rears it's ugly head. Many claim that only criticism of the minority culture/race/whatever is racism. Attacking the 'majority' because of their skin colour is perfectly acceptable, hence all the earlier references to white in a disparaging sense. You'll also see male attacked in this exact sense even though they're not exactly a majority.

If I don't criticize you but I criticize someone else I am expecting less of you. This is a soft bigotry. I'm going easy on you, not expecting the same of you that I would of anyone else. This kind of thinking reinforces racist stereotypes about minorities being inferior. This is how the anti-racists end up sounding alot like the racists.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293187#Comment_118293187

Racism of the anti-racists........What does that even mean?

It's not simply about criticism, it's about whether that criticism is prejudiced in any way. As for the majority, or males being attacked. Does this happen without basis, or, does the person accusing someone, or some entity have at least some foundation for their argument?

The non-anti-racists (is that appropriate) are long at the stage where they think every and any accusation of racism can be dismissed as such unless it contains definitive irrefutable proof that it is such. They would no doubt argue that you cannot accuse someone of racism without grounds, (leaving aside the debate about what constitute reasonable grounds for a second) which is worse, accusing someone of racism without definitive proof? Or ignoring racism until you have definitive proof. I would argue that it is the latter.

'anti-racist ' is some kind of insult now is it?

Imagine insulting people who are not racist, because they are not racist🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292460#Comment_118292460

I guess I am living in a dream world where common sense remains... and people have the basic intelligence to realise that criticising a culture does not extend to the people themselves. Especially the idea that it entails all of the people of that cultural group.

Not to worry though. Thankfully boards isn't representative of the real world, and common sense is making a come-back.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293345#Comment_118293345

I know. It’s shocking, isn’t it Joe.

Imagine generalizing white, middle class, Irish people who apparently think their belief systems are innately superior.

Just shocking altogether, I tell you..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293345#Comment_118293345

Where do you get insult from? It's a descriptor. Fairly accurate I would say.

Anti-racism is usually structured around conscious efforts and deliberate actions which are intended to provide equal opportunities for all people on both an individual and a systemic level. As a philosophy, it can be engaged in by the acknowledgment of personal privileges, confronting acts as well as systems of racial discrimination, and/or working to change personal racial biases

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293449#Comment_118293449

You do know that us Irish were colonised and exploited for many centuries longer than most of the supposed oppressed groups. As a group of people IRish people have been treated worse, for longer periods of time. So tell me, what privileges have IRish people had that you want to "acknowledge" compared to the modern percieved victims.

We are the only country in the world that has less a population now than in 1850.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293479#Comment_118293479

I don't want anyone to acknowledge anything. No idea what you're talking about honestly.

sorry was referring to your quote on defining anti-racism, not you the poster.. a bit unclear.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291369#Comment_118291369

Classism and ageism in this post

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293607#Comment_118293607

Sexism too perhaps?

Those middle aged men need to be kept in check, with their pale and stale mindsets.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293607#Comment_118293607

Ignorance too, since he's complaining about something that wasn't said. I did enjoy the irony of his first sentence though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288956#Comment_118288956

This is the post that they're all complaining about. This isn't the case of wanting others to conform to a preferred society. It's the case of wanting a culture that encourages a wide range of abuses from domestic abuse to child prostitution to stop. The unemployment rate among the Traveller community is incredibly high, with a sizable portion claiming disability payments. We seek to manage behaviors which are destructive to people, but somehow Traveller culture gets a free pass.

As there is no difference between Travellers and other Irish people (which is what I believe), then the only real difference is Traveller culture itself, but he (and others) aren't going to consider the actual negatives common within the Traveller community. Over the last two pages, the objections are about everything except the main points I made, seeking to build outrage, and changing the narrative by layering accusations that don't reflect what was in the post itself.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293720#Comment_118293720

It's all well and good stating what you personally believe, that doesn't automatically mean that you are right or it is true. If there is no difference between travellers and other Irish people, then why do we know exactly what is being talked about when we talk about members of the travelling community even within an Irish context?

This sentence from your original post shows an ignorance of the differences that can and do exist between people who may genetically be very similar.

 Stop protecting that culture, and the cycle will end with Travellers becoming part of mainstream society

Take out the word traveller and replace it with Aborigene, native American Indians, Roma, etc or indeed look at the full paragraph in which it appeared and you won't have to search too hard to find examples of the exact same sentiment being expressed about communities during times and events which preceded their subjugation and in many instances, the genocide of groups of their communities and others like them throughout history. And how can you write that, and follow it up with this;

This isn't the case of wanting others to conform to a preferred society

You've literally, in the same post you quoted, indicated that that is a preferred outcome. And to think that you opened this post referring to the presence of ignorance in the arguments, you are literally contradicting yourself as you go along.

It's never an acceptable tactic to complain and deflect that people are ignoring the main points you make in a discussion just because they don't agree with you and refuse to just accept your position, it doesn't hold any water whatsoever when you contradict yourself so blatantly.

Finally, you yourself has bemoaned the loss of Irish cultural heritage, on a thread which largely focuses on keeping people of different cultures apart. And yet here, you want to expedite the abolition of a cultural identity within Ireland just because you personally dislike it and want to homogenize them in to the wider Irish community. I disagree with a lot of people on here on these sorts of topics, rarely do I see them disagree with themselves just to try to make what they think is a more palatable point.

WrenBoy

Travellers are white Irish so the claim of racism falls at the first hurdle really.

Yeah_Right

Can I ask the people defending Travellers and are equating them to various indigenous cultures around the world; what part of their culture that is so unique and different and goes back generations, needs to be protected and continued? Genuinely.