Is Ireland Racist?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295265#Comment_118295265

They weren’t an official ethnic minority ten years ago, what explained people's aversion to travellers back then ?

Seeing as the race card can't be played retrospectively?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295547#Comment_118295547

People are not adverse to them because they have been officially recognised as an ethnic minority. But they have always been travellers.

It has been against the law to discriminate against a member of the travelling community since long before their official recognition.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295247#Comment_118295247

Correction they are white Irish people or white people of Irish extraction.

Sad to say some vested interests, together with the usual self appointed societal conscious and media wafflers, managed to convince a county man of mine to push through a law that stated that these people were a different ethnic group purely because they lived to a different set of cultural and moral values to the rest of us.

It was a travesty.

Using the same guidelines one could probably stretch to say people from Roscommon were a different ethnic group or people from the Aran islands.

And people are not adverse to them because they are a so called different ethnic group, they are adverse to them from hard learned experience of their awful actions and their toxic way of life.

And if travellers want to be seen in a better light it is time they get off their ar**es and prove themselves worthy, rather than continously moaning it is always someone else's fault.

And the usual bleeding hearts would do more good for travellers, and indeed especially for the travellers that are trying to change things through their positve actions and lives, than throwing out the discrimination card and woe is me shyte.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295603#Comment_118295603

not what I asked - meant

any aversion today against towards travellers is rooted in racism according to you ?, what was the motivation ten years ago when they had yet to be classified an official minority ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295896#Comment_118295896

No, I never said it was rooted in racism. Not at all. People have always disliked travellers in this country.

It is however been illegal to discriminate against them for years. And now they have been officially recognised as an ethnic minority.

There are just facts.

Fr Tod Umptious

Will people just put up their hands and say that they discriminate against and are prejudicial towards travelers because of their lived experience of observing them, and dealing with them, and reading about them, and what we were thought about them from our parents, and what they were though about them by their parents, and so on and so forth.

And stop trying to hide behind words and meanings of words and this that and the other.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296084#Comment_118296084

What are you trying to argue?

I couldn't give two fooks if you or one of the moral superiority brigade thinks I am discriminating or prejudicial towards travellers if I don't want anything to do with the vast majority of them.

I am going to ask you these questions, try and be honest unlike all but one of our last presidential candidates.

If two people turned offering to clean and fix your gutters, one was a traveller and one was not, which one would you give the job to ?

Would you buy a house beside a traveller halting site ?

Would you want a member of your family having a wedding in the same hotel on the same day as a traveller wedding ?

I could ask these of others around here and expect to be lectured about non discrimiantion, not all are the same, everyone deserves a break, but I can safely bet that the vast vast majority of Irish people would give the same answers as me.

So are vast vast majority of Irish people racists then?

cafflingwunts

@jmayo "So are the vast majority of Irish people racists then?"

Yes. Literally no doubt about it.

If of course by racist you mean sick to the back teeth of people just being unruly, scummy and downright inhumane. Those people in question happen to conform to nomadic values mixed with savagery of the same type seen in Bone Tomahawk, then yep most definitely an island full of horrible racist bigots. Sure even all the frontline Garda are racist too would you believe?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-have-negative-view-of-travellers-survey-finds-1.4334274

Of course if you come back down to Earth with the rest of us, you'll realize everything is circumstantial, racism included. If two travellers parade up to the front door in a brand new Transit and offer to do the gutters we both know it's a **** you get off me porch.. but if a 15 year old traveller rocks up on his own with a ladder on his shoulder and says he wants a few quid for the gutters I'd let him do the job and have done without issue in the past.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296176#Comment_118296176

You should read the thread.

I brought up the gutter example myself a few hours ago.

Read it to see where I stand on this.

What I am trying to argue is that Irish people cannot on one hand claim they are not racist and on the other hand hold the views that they hold of travelers.

And hide behind language and definitions etc to show that their discrimination of, and prejudice towards travelers is not racism because travelers are white Irish.

I have no problem with people saying they hate travelers, I hate travelers myself, but don't tell me it's not racists because it is, and I am racist when it comes to travelers.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296084#Comment_118296084

Great post, I was trying to get this across yesterday. It amazes me that so many people can't accept their biases for what they are. Trying to give every excuse under the sun to justify it or completely sticking their head in the sand. It goes well beyond travelers too

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296555#Comment_118296555

In your opinion can all races of people hold biases against others?

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296593#Comment_118296593

Of course - I'm not sure if that is even an opinion, rather a fact

whisky_galore

I wouldn't dream of buying a house next to that council-built compound filled with Asian/Polish/African people who refuse to constructively engage with society said no-one here ever.

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296394#Comment_118296394

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296555#Comment_118296555

If you are a racist please don't project that onto the Irish as a whole and argue the answer is Yes to the thread topic "Is Ireland Racist?" just to make yourself feel better.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296610#Comment_118296610

So you agree all races of people can be racist, i agree with that sentiment aswell, its just you only ever hear about it being white people that are racist.

So we are at a place where we can all agree that the prejudice and bias that BLM and their supporters hold towards white people (assuming privilege etc) is racist?

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296683#Comment_118296683

I don't need to feel better, I'm just fine being racist towards travelers, my lived experience for over 50 years is not going to change that.

But as for projecting it onto the Irish as a whole, I don't think I have to.

The suspicion of, discrimination against, and prejudice towards travelers is something I think is in the majority of the settled community already.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296712#Comment_118296712

Because the power dynamic is key - minorities rarely have the power or numbers for it to be anywhere near as impactful.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296767#Comment_118296767

Id agree with that, still happens both ways that's my point and you only ever hear about it one way.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296840#Comment_118296840

What do you expect to hear? It isn't like every incident makes the news.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296904#Comment_118296904

yep that's true, not arguing, some people believe racism can only go one way. I work in a multinational and when you work with people from different backgrounds you realize not much difference between people, Pakistan lad i work with now says well boy and sound.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296904#Comment_118296904

The SUV incident had remarkably few reference to racism despite the perpetrator being a racist. Yet the Kyle Rittenhouse case was full of chat of white supremacy despite not being a racist.

Seems a little imbalanced. Racism by white people is exaggerated and racism to white people is underplayed in the media a a whole.

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296084#Comment_118296084

I don;t discriminate against Travellers.. But if/when I say that there were threats and abuse from 2 folk who were Travellers? For some reason it is seen as different from saying you were threatened by any other group eg youngsters. It is not prejudicial simply a means of ID. As we would if it were youngsters.

The worst discrimination I ever suffered as an English perspn was up in Orkney. It has been blessedly absent in my over 20 years here. Well. largely. The first time I met the ferryman when I was seeking to move to this offshore island, he followed me to my car to ensure I had Irish family connections. Which way back I do! As I had ascertained when I was first here as it did seem to matter.

Graces7

NB I do not think we should label simply being aware of national or other ID and mentioning it should be interpreted as anything but that simplest ID issue.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296840#Comment_118296840

I don't believe that to be true. There are racist incidents worldwide. And we hear plenty when they get to a particularly bad place.

In ireland, you will probably most likely hear of incidents in this country, where we are the majority, so it makes sense, if the minority have had racist incidents happen to them.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296976#Comment_118296976

Do you have evidence of the SUV incident being linked to racism?

Rittenhouse broke police curfew, inserted himself into an anti-racism protest with a rifle and shot and killed multiple people. He then accepted money from far right groups with racist ties and took photos using the white supremacy hand gesture - the same gesture used by another mass shooter in a race/religious motivated killing in Christchurch. Whether it was or wasn't tied to racism is up for debate but Rittenhouse's decisions forced it to be part of the discussion.

The driver of the SUV’s social media was littered with anti white messages, He was clearly a racist. Rittenhouse may well have been a racist too. But there is no actual evidence the SUV driver carried out the incident due to race though, similarly there is no evidence Rittenhouse shot those guys for racial reasons either.

People where all over Rittenhouse accusing him of being a racist. Social media companies banned anyone defending him. The same has not happened to the SUV driver on anything like the same scale.

If people are going to be against racism then it needs to be across the board. No racism is tolerable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297080#Comment_118297080

Rittenhouse's only crime was that he wasn't there in Kenosha that night supporting the BLM 'protest'(riot).

This was enough for the media to label him a white supremacist. Long before any pictures surfaced of him with proud boy members. They lionized him after the event and is not something you should associate with him.

It would be kind of like me saying that ISIS also agree with you that America is a terrible place.

By the way Hilary Clinton, Barrack Obama and just about every person you can think of was also seen using that obscene hand gesture. I won't post it up here in case it offends anyone.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297077#Comment_118297077

I get the numbers thing but i rarely if ever hear about racism from a black person to a white person. It seems people jump to racist accusations against white people far quicker.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297147#Comment_118297147

That situation goes far beyond agreeing with an idea:

Using your example, it would be like openly that you disagree with America, then marching around a 4th of July event with a rifle, inserting yourself into a confrontation with a hostile group after being given multiple opportunities to go home, shooting and killing multiple people who were there to celebrate 4th of July, then afterwards accepting money from ISIS and finally taking a photo with ISIS members while burning an American flag.

On your last point, plenty of people are caught in a still shot with their right arm outstretched while making a completely unrelated motion, it is completely different when there are guys in white hood doing it.