Is Ireland Racist?

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296394#Comment_118296394

You could call it bigotry, you could call bias, you could call it prejudice against them, although a lot of people would call it common freaking sense.

If you don't like folk from Northern Ireland are you racist ?

If you don't like or want anything to do with Glasgow Rangers fans are you racist ?

The racism label is now trotted out for all and anything and it is the go to means to shut people up.

You don't want unqualified non visa migrants showing up, you don't want very pregnant women showing up to claim anchor baby status then you are told you are racist.

In other words shut up.

And I have witnessed in broad daylight in one of our supposedly more upmarket enlightened areas the worst of real racism.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296963#Comment_118296963

Ask him what he thinks of Indians and it may be enlightening. ;-)

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297137#Comment_118297137

You're ignoring the events and why the two got there. Rittenhouse specifically chose to go to the scene of the killings because he was against the actions of the anti-racism protesters - which rightly or wrongly brings racism into the discussion, where you have to do extreme mental gymnastics to get there with the other killer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297384#Comment_118297384

Far from extreme mental gymnastics foxtrol. We all know if the SUV driver had been a white American with social media posts about hating and attacking black people and then drove into a crowd of majority black people then racism would have been highlighted relentlessly. It’s a mystery why people try and downplay this man’s racist leaning because he is black.

If you are against racism then you should be against all forms of it.

Are you even willing to criticise his racist social media posts or will you just sidestep them?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297384#Comment_118297384

how did a thread on Ireland get to this again?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297651#Comment_118297651

Or this?

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297670#Comment_118297670

One of the 'what about racism against white people' posters brought it up and got a decent number of thanks for doing so it seems - might be helpful if you directed your question to them.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297651#Comment_118297651

Are you claiming a Christmas parade is a white only event and he premeditated attacking this white only event by getting involved in a stabbing event close by? If not then your argument doesn't stand at all. The town is 3% black - if someone was to commit this type of disgusting mass murdering crime, of course the largest number of victims would be white unless they specifically targeted another demographic - like those shooters that seek out black churches or mosques.

To bring this back on topic, this kind of whataboutism just shows the lengths people to go to try to be the victim and avoid looking at their own biases and those around them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295877#Comment_118295877

They are Irish people, and white skinned. Notice how the American ideology of white privilege (supposedly a privilege of skin) breaks down here, as it does in Northern Ireland with Irish Catholics.

there is some discrimination against travellers though, there are very few halting sites in rich areas.

In any case anti racism in Ireland would have to be of a different type to anti racism in America. We didn’t have slaves here, nor Jim Crow laws. Some people did own slaves, though mostly, but not entirely the Anglo Irish. Not always though I know the bourke family owned slaves - Mary Robinson’s family. Her wealth should be seized. These people exploited us too.

As for the castle Catholic classes, comfortable with empire, we need to get to some proper accommodation there, the privileges of supporting empire have echoed through the ages to modern era. We probably need reparations.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297902#Comment_118297902

Apart from blackrock, booterstown, foxrock, carrickmines, dun laoghaire, cabinteely, sandyford, shankill and rathmichael, no halting sites in rich areas 🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297384#Comment_118297384

 Rittenhouse specifically chose to go to the scene of the killings because he was against the actions of the anti-racism protesters - which rightly or wrongly brings racism into the discussion

This is fake news propagated by the likes of MSNBC and CNN so not really your fault. Rittenhouse was there that night defending a minority owned business. The Khindris owned the car lot and testified in court. So, no, racism should never have been brought into the conversation.

Rittenhouse is also hispanic. I'm not saying hispanic people can't be racist, of course they can, but it certainly detracts from the white supremacist narrative you've heard inecessantly, doesn't it?

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299235#Comment_118299235

This is all bullshit though because rittenhouse is an American and nothing to do with this thread.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299262#Comment_118299262

Indeed that's an interesting way of deflecting. You could have chosen the person who brought Rittenhouse up, but preferred to reply to me correcting what they said.

The reason why racism in america is related to 'is ireland racist' is because there are several interpretations of what racism is. Many are accusing Ireland of being racist by american standards, I just want to show how ridiculous these standards are.

You have a hispanic kid being called a white supremacist for defending a minority owned business, just because BLM were out 'protesting' that night. It makes no sense at all. The defenders will say he is supporting a system made for white supremacy and that he has internalized racism and whatnot but it's all a load of nonsense.

Shilock

There was a time here in Ireland when a foreigner comes to town and they're welcome, interesting and blend in quite well with the locals.

We swapped stories about our culture's and we played football in the local green area, I can remember playing football with teen-agers from Russia, Libya, Chile and Cuba in Shannon during the 80's there was no racism back then we didn't even hear of the word.

The first time I was exposed to racism was in the TV show Roots... that was shocking.

Fr Tod Umptious

One thing about Ireland is that immigration is relatively new.

Pre 1997 it was almost non existent.

Thus we have been a very mono-cultural society up to very recently.

So I think we are a long away from really discovering just how racist a people we are.

Give it another 50 years and see if there is a burgeoning right wing, anti immigration political movements etc.

Time will tell.

rock22

Perhaps more xenophobia than racism, but the Irish Times has an article this morning Brianna Parkins: Every three months or so I’m reminded I’m not quite Irish enough (irishtimes.com) which reflects the experience of many foreigners in Ireland.

It certainly seems that some are no longer so welcoming .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297992#Comment_118297992

actually there is Traveller accomdation in Booterstown, Blackrock, and Shankill, along with Clonskeagh, and Monkstown

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/adopted_tap_2019-2024.pdf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299728#Comment_118299728

"When I’m in Australia I feel Irish and when I’m in Ireland I feel Australian."

I think if you asked any mixed race person this is what they'd tell you. People see differences before they see similarities.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299728#Comment_118299728

Which is common throughout the world. In most countries, foreigners who gain residency or citizenship are considered by the locals not to be fully <insert nationality>. You really think that if you move to live in Poland, or Zimbabwae, that people will treat you the same as a native? They won't. You'll always be a foreigner, regardless of your legal status.

It's only in Europe that there's an expectation that people will be accepted the same as natives... even though, in many cases, they won't be. I've friends who have settled in Germany, speak German perfectly, but they'll still be considered as foreign. Because they are. You can't wipe away the differences in culture and perception with a piece of paper.

The difference I would say, is that most Irish people don't bother thinking about it all that much, and so, the difference is passed by quietly. However, we now live in an era where the differences are promoted. Minorities are held up as different, demanding recognition, and help because they are minorities... and so, they have to be seen as different. And yet, at the same time, we're all expected to accept them completely, the same as Irish natives. It's an expectation for people to accept contradictions. They're different (when it comes to recognition, and benefits), but the same (when it comes to nationality, and more).

There's also the aspect that when immigration is a relatively new thing, people are more friendly because the groups arriving are new. But as time goes by, more negative experiences are associated with the migrant/foreign group, and perceptions change...

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299330#Comment_118299330

I called out the most recent post at the time discussing rittenhouse. You can type all the whataboutism you want but Rittenhouse has **** all to do with whether or not there is racism in Ireland or if Ireland is racist..

I was not calling you specifically out but this bullshit discussion about rittenhouse and stupid American firearms laws doesn't belong in this discussion on racism in Ireland

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300031#Comment_118300031

Neither does discussing travellers, yet you'll not protest that.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300043#Comment_118300043

Travellers are defined as an ethnic minority in Ireland, live in ireland and suffer prejudice in Ireland. So yeah I think they are valid in a discussion on Racism in Ireland

Rittenhouse is just bullshit deflection and whataboutism and nothing to do with the topic.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299961#Comment_118299961

This post boils down to other countries are racist so Ireland should be too.

Should Ireland not aspire to be more progressive than countries like Zimbabwe and Poland. Are humans forever shackled with the attitudes of the past or can we change?

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297992#Comment_118297992

Ok for start Dun Laoghaire would not be considered a rich area, there are pockets, but drive or walk around areas of it to really see it.

Ever been in Sandyford village ?

Oh and wasn't/isn't the major halting site beside the industrial estate and ESB yard (as good as Leopardstown) not anywhere near most housing.

By Carrickmines I presume you mean Glenamuck road where the site was half way up much nearer the former corporation housing in Kilternan.

There weren't that many houses along that road until recently, hell it was like driving a country road until 20 years ago.

Wasn't Booterstown/Blackrock down beside railway line, not anywhere near say Mount Merrion Avenue, Cross Avenue, Carysfort Avenue, Newtownpark Avenue ?

Where is there halting site in Foxrock ?

Where are the halting sites in Clontarf, Sutton, Howth, Dalkey, Kiliney ?

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299908#Comment_118299908

People have been saying that but theres not been much evidence presented yet, unless you too overheard someone say a footballer wasn't very good ? Then its case closed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299908#Comment_118299908

Ireland doesn't have a racist society. Travellers are probably the most protected group in this country, receiving a wide range of benefits/supports based entirely on their status as Travellers. Just as there are other benefits for minority groups. If Irish society was deeply racist, then, there wouldn't be any of those benefits or supports, and they would be systematically discriminated against. Which they're not.

The truth is that most Irish people have little contact with Travellers or other minority groups, beyond seeing them in the street, or whatever. And so, they're not in any kind of position to be racist. They might have negative opinions of Travellers or other groups based on media reports, or stories told by friends, which could be considered racist... but then, everyone in the world could be considered racist then. Everyone has their biases (acquired from parents, education/history, etc) towards other cultural/ethnic groups....

Beasty

This thread is about racism in Ireland - drop discussion of racist incidents elsewhere

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300108#Comment_118300108

https://www.ihrec.ie/app/uploads/2020/12/IHREC-Survey-Results.pdf

35% of people surveyed have witnessed racism in Ireland in the past 12 months in a survey taken in December last year.

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300156#Comment_118300156

I'd love to know what constitutes racism because using this thread as a small sample pool the bar is very low indeed. But aside from that, from that same report:

90% agree that people should be treated equally no matter who they are or where they come from, with only 3% stating ‘disagree strongly’ or ‘disagree slightly’

79% ‘agree strongly/slightly’ that Ireland benefits from being a more inclusive and diverse society, with less than 1 in 10 (7%) stating they ‘disagree strongly/slightly’

LOL so thats a strong No to Is Ireland racist ?

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300112#Comment_118300112

I find it incomprehensible that anyone could claim Ireland is systemically racist when it goes out of it's way to cater for non Irish, and non Europeans/non EU citizens.

The amount of supports and funding given to asylum seekers/refugees/migrants who for the most part are non white would immediately negate the concept of systemic racism.

Then add into the mix the amount of work visas given to non white immigrants as another indication that we as a state are not racist.

Then look at private sector employment, and not just the major multinationals but small Irish indigenous companies, that have staff from many different races from all around the world.

Yes some individual Irish people can be racist in their outlook. This is fact and it is irrefutable.

Hell remember all those comments from some about the Eastern Europeans coming to take all our jobs and they are white and often catholics not black or brown non christians.

But to the thorny subject of travellers and the suposed main evidence we are as racist as some hicks from deepest Alabama.

BTW I don't see travellers as being a different race or ethnic group.

Just because people often limit selection of a spouse to a distinct group does not make them a different ethnic group.

Hell if it did then there would be a lot of different ethnic groups dotted around the country. Not mentioning any particular towns here.

Yes they face negative discrimination, not from authorities where they enjoy a huge level of positive discrimination, but from ordinary people.

A lot of people just seem to throw out the racist moniker or the other modern go to about NOT ALL, rather than really devle into why this group of people have such a negative standing in our society.

And it is because so many of us have had just overwhelmingly negative interactions with travellers, not just one or two but most, and not just one incident but many.

And then to top it off we see them get preferential treatment from authorities all at the expense of our taxes.

I know people that got repremanded for burning vegetation, farmers questioned by authorities about animal welfare, yet you pass a traveller halting site and it looks like an oilfield onfire during the Gulf War and lets not even bother mentioning travellers and the words animal welfare.

Why should travellers get to demand accommodation that affords them housing for their animals?

Why should they be tolerated not sending their kids to school in this day and age?

There is huge amount of state authorities granting preferential treatment to travellers whilst the rest of us law abiding citizens get sh** on from a height if we dared attempt similar.

Add all that to the violence, the littering, the disregard for personal property, the antisocial behaviour and still some people wonder why a lot of us can't stand the sight of them as a group.