Covid cert and public pool and gym

Shilock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353430#Comment_118353430

The only response I can give is , hopefully nothing like that would happen.

It's a serious virus and I wish it never happened. It seems to be able to outmanoeuvre any treatment thrown at it, the vaccine stops it from becoming more lethal but then again I never met anyone who had acquired measles, hepatitis or other illnesses they were vaccinated against. But covid seems to be a tough one to stop. Unless they come up with a more traditional vaccine rather than the mRNA gene therapy, an old fashioned vaccine mixed up with unfertilised egg's etc like the flu vaccine. Because there's More than enough Covid out there now to implement the traditional inoculation.

I know a lot of mRNA vaccine hesitant people would have no problem with taking a traditional type of vaccination against covid.

Maybe they take longer to make, I don't know

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353455#Comment_118353455

Again, the mortality rate is no longer the concern it once was due to vaccination and the survival rate has no doubt been helped by those same vaccines.

No one has said you commited a crime, nor that you have broken a law by not getting vaccinated. This again goes back to you’re misinformed opinion that vaccination is a legal requirement/mandatory/compulsory, it is not, nor has it ever been. It really is the height of stupidity to keep saying vaccination is required by law when no such law exists. That is not an opinion, you can literally check legislation online.

There have always been restrictions on entry, there had never been a time when there has been an absolute right of entry to a public or private building.

And again, there is no age limit, nor medical contraindication to vaccination so can you please stop with this tripe.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118345456#Comment_118345456

We had a Level 5 lockdown for six months...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353497#Comment_118353497

You understand that the vaccine has been incredibly successful in preventing serious illness? It may not give immunity from infection but it has reduced the severity of the illness and mortality.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353514#Comment_118353514

Why haven’t we needed that since vaccination levels began to rise?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353513#Comment_118353513

Nice straw man, if you can show me where I said that vaccination was a legal requirement I'll take it back but since I didn't, you won't. Fair enough, you don't want to address the substance of the argument and try to rely on literal legal definitions.

The fact is that you cannot say why you support covid passes if you also agree that they don't prevent transmission.

Here's the big question, what will you say if Ireland introduces mandatory vaccination as they have in other EU countries?

Shilock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353525#Comment_118353525

It says that in the post above, yes but it doesn't stop people from getting sick from it either or spreading the virus. That's why they realise that in order to stop the spread and people from getting sick etc they have to have curfews. It's plane to see that if we were at 100% vaccination rate people would still be getting sick and possibly end up in ICU. My biggest concern is that the likes of me don't end up with a mutation that supersedes the ability of the vaccine to keep me from getting sick or need a hospital bed. And for the life of me I don't know many vaccinated people who are worried about that happening, I'm told they're just going out to bar's, restaurants and the theatre coughing and spluttering and not giving a toss. I'd say most people have sniffles at some stage during the week. And when I used to go to the gym there was always a cough somewhere in the background or someone sniffling.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353569#Comment_118353569

You always know someone is spoofing when they break out the aul “straw man” line.

When you post about “mandatory vaccination”, “compulsory” or “crime” relating to vaccination, you are straying into the legal domain, so don’t go there if you don’t want to be called out on your interpretation of what is legally required.

A Covid cert is a certificate confirming your vaccination status, most people have them on their phones. Does an picture on your phone prevent transmission of Covid? of course not. But policies which include the requirement to produce that certificate to enter a premises are designed to reduce infection of unvaccinated and spread of infection by people who MAY have higher virus concentrations in nasal droplets than vaccinated people. I support the policy because of that.

Would I support mandating of vaccines? No, I firmly believe that every individuals right to be an idiot should be protected.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353514#Comment_118353514

At which at no point was anybody required to be locked up, locked away… lockdown was simply an all encompassing term for restrictions.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353455#Comment_118353455

Where do you get the qualified people to staff said beds, departments ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353781#Comment_118353781

Where did we get them in March 2020 when we took over private hospitals and city west hotel? Where did the U.K. or the U.S. get the extra capacity when they constructed nightingale and field hospitals which were dismantled because they were never used.

Point is that if you’re health service is at risk of being overwhelmed you increase capacity not impose lockdowns that are worse than the disease they’re trying to prevent.

Rather than balkanise a section of society that has broken no laws we should be asking why the health service hasn't increased icu capacity after 2 years and billions of funding???

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353826#Comment_118353826

private hotels and private hospitals and hotels are not ICU’s

you cannot increase ICU capacity unless you have the people to staff those ICUs.

ICU nurses and doctors are specially trained and qualified…

nobody is being ‘balkanised’…that emotive peanut throwing doesn’t hold sway in this argument.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353923#Comment_118353923

At exactly what point in 2020/2021 did ICU's become this sacred cow that we needed to shutter the country and the economy at all costs for a pathogen so lethal that only 99.8% of those infected will survive? ICU's and hospitals in this country have been "overwhelmed" for every winter of my adult life, there were more people on trolleys and waiting on wards in 2018 that there has been at any stage during the pandemic.

Around mid March 2020 when the first cases were confirmed in Ireland and numbers of infected began to rise. The Government had the benefit of seeing the effect of Covid on the hospital system in Lombardy Italy where over 3000 deaths were recorded in only a few days up to the 20th on March. That is when the decision was taken to protect our hospital system/ICUs.

It wasn’t that long ago, and the hospitalisation/ICU figures have been listed every day since, how could this possibly be news to you?

How many planned and necessary surgeries/treatments of non Covid related illnesses have had to be cancelled since March 2020? One of the main reasons you are not seeing much higher numbers of patients on trolleys is because so many patients have had treatments cancelled and therefore their beds are available for urgent Covid/non Covid related illnesses. This is the part that most concerns people. Few people I know are actually worried about dying from Covid, everyone I know has someone close whose treatment/Hospital appointment has been affected by Covid.

You are correct, Hospitalisations/ICU admissions ebb and flow every year, winter being peak time. So you surely understand that if planned capacity is reached without Covid, a virus that is currently infecting thousands every day could overwhelm ICUs when added to pre-Covid type admissions. Thank God for vaccines which have kept the vast majority safe from serious illness/needing ICU treatment, and all the more reason to be pissed off with the 7% who account for more than half of all Covid admissions because of their choice not to receive the vaccine.

And before you make anymore statements suggesting that increasing ICU is just a matter of making a decision and throwing money at it, go do some research on what is involved in increasing ICU beds.

Oh, and bren, please look up the meaning of your new favourite word, “balkanise”, the country is not being broken up into smaller states or groups hostile to one another. The restrictions apply to everyone, vaxed and unvaxed, they effect one group more due to personal choose. Requirement to show a Covid pass is no more an example of balkanisation than a requirement to show ID to drink alcohol in a bar or to buy cigarettes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353826#Comment_118353826

Coincidentally, a Professor of IC medicine from St James was just interviewed on Ireland Am after the 7:30 am news.

Some of the standout lines:

• Study of 40k patients treated in ICUs and IC beds set up outside ICUs showed that there was a higher mortality rate in the IC beds outside ICUs.

• ICUs require custom made units with Drs, nurses, machinery which cannot be set up instantly. It takes up to 5 yrs to plan/build/staff an ICU.

• People who think ICUs can be set up anywhere is like thinking a surgeon should be able to perform an operation outside a theatre, on a ward.

It should be up on the Virgin player later for you to inform yourself.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118354883#Comment_118354883

Give up trying to explain anything to Brenbrady ... he is so far down the rabbit hole he has no interest in anything that won't reinforce his entrenched view point.

Thankfully people like him are in a very small minority so I wouldn't bother wasting any more time on him

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118354883#Comment_118354883

It should come as no surprise that there is a higher mortality for patients in Intensive Care, if they are in IC then they are either very ill or badly injured.

Point is that the ICU capacity has been a know issue for at least 15 years. This is from 2007... 'Massive' shortage of ICU beds (irishtimes.com)

What amazes me is how people like yourself have blind faith in the same group of officials who have mismanaged the health service for decades, squandered billions without any real improvements being delivered and stumbled one crisis to the next. That's where your focus should be, not on the tiny minority of people that we are excluding from public life who have broken no law or committed no crime.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356306#Comment_118356306

Bren, are you misinterpreting what I posted/what the Professor said on purpose? He said mortality rates were higher in IC patients who received IC outside designated IC units than those treated inside ICUs. The comparison was not between patients who needed IC and those who did not.

Mismanagement and waste is a whole other discussion, again the crux of his discussion, this Professor of IC, was that it is silly to think you can just decide to one day open up a ward and call it an ICU. This really is nutcase stuff.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356412#Comment_118356412

Why the hyper focus on ICU's and the refusal to consider or value the severe costs of COVID restrictions in the name of protecting ICU's which have been "overwhelmed" for decades? Why are ICU's suddenly something we must protect at all costs including closing businesses, restricting travel and preventing un-vaxxed from participating in public life?

Gym has been quiet recently. Checks going into gym. Think you are allowed use the swimming pool without a covid cert.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356657#Comment_118356657

Well, focus is on hospitalisations and ICU in order to prevent unnecessary death, people will continue to die from COVID.

But at the macro level, Ireland's GDP is in rude health and we have weathered the storm of COVID better than most other countries. People don't like restrictions and lockdowns, but they have worked.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356705#Comment_118356705

How many unnecessary deaths have been prevented from lockdowns and restrictions? COVID maximalists have been preaching the gospel of lockdowns and restrictions for almost two years. The fact is they do not work. If we were all to be sedated, locked in wooden boxes permanently and fed by robots they might work.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356882#Comment_118356882

All the deaths that would have occurred when we ran out of health capacity to treat people. Flatten the curve means to elongate the time over which people get infected such that the top of the curve remains within capacity, we're still doing that in effect. What we need to do in Spring is keep the top of the curve near the capacity we can handle instead of trying to drive it down to 0 (i.e. have low or no restrictions).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356911#Comment_118356911

All of the deaths which nobody can seem to quantify.

Fact is that when we took control of private hospitals and increased capacity in March 2020 it was never used because the "surge" never came. This was before any restrictions, face masks vaccines etc. So why, after 18 months of restrictions and a universally available vaccine would we would expect it to be any different?

The simple reality is that lockdowns are a self fulfilling prophecy, an epidemiological experiment which has no way of being verified. This virus is within the scope of winter deaths that we have dealt with for many years out of the last 30 and many years of the last 100.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356882#Comment_118356882

Funny you mention the gospel of the covid maximalists. I've been saying this for sometime now that the catholic church bind on society never went away but simply changed form. Now it's Climate change and covid that has given people a sense of societal superiority with which they can use to scoff at others. Not getting boosted now is the equivalent of not saying the rosary before you go to bed - you could die from it but more importantly what would the neighbours think if I didn't do it?

sean29

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330261#Comment_118330261

Why? If the vaccine is so effective, why are you afraid of the unvaccinated? Yes, trust a company that paid billions in multiple lawsuits for bribing doctors, not disclosing side effects and mis-promoting medicines. Vaccine will stop the spread they said. It will stop hospitalizations they said. 95% efficiency, but you will have to take it every few months (6,4 in some countries) Do you know how many people died a day from covid across the WORLD during the peak weeks of covid? 7k average. Do you know how many people die of dementia every day? 7 thousand. Digestive diseases? 6500. Cancers? 25k. Heart disease? 50k EACH DAY. Diabetes and liver disease? 7k. Suicide and car accidents? 6k. A DAY. Wake up and smell the coffee. Do some research. Vaccine (which isn't so much a vaccine as it is a product to lessen your symptoms when you get it) is effective and should be used for those at high risk, it should not be forced upon the entire world.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118433648#Comment_118433648

Who is afraid of the unvaccinated?

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118433648#Comment_118433648

Oh, you're another covid bore.

#Sad

My original post was a (rather hilarious) twist on the "no hat no swim" policy. Thats all. I dont really give a sh1t about vaxxed, unvaxxed etc. Or your opinion.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118433648#Comment_118433648

Good man Seanie, you tell them.

A lot of people will see your post as complete incoherent ranting and raving, but not me.

You're still not getting into the gym though.

circadian

If you're choosing to opt out, then **** opt out and stop complaining. Jesus Christ, some people.

sean29

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118433745#Comment_118433745

What are you moaning about, is the topic not about covid cert and public pool no?

sean29

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118433668#Comment_118433668

What's the point of the covid passes then? And don't start about transmission as differences are negligible

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118434892#Comment_118434892

Firstly, you and I don’t make the rules, but we must follow them. I am not afraid of catching Covid from you, but you have chosen not to be vaccinated. The rules say I can enter, you can’t, so that’s tough luck for you.

Vaccinated people clear the virus more quickly than those who are unvaccinated due to the effect of the vaccine on the immune system, so are less likely as a result to be carriers of the virus. Transmission rates made be broadly similar, infective periods are shorter in vaccinated people though if they recover more quickly. There is little doubt that vaccine rules are designed to push people into getting vaccinated, but if you choose not to protect yourself, then exercise outdoors.

sean29

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118434980#Comment_118434980

So in the first part you just stated the obvious fact, rules, nothing new there. Clear it what 5min, 1 day, 3 days quicker? Please tell me. Also clear the virus with 99.97 survival rate and even higher for under 40's, very strong argument there

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435073#Comment_118435073

You think Covid restrictions are based on deaths/survival rates? Where have you been for the last 18 months?

sean29

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435282#Comment_118435282

This is getting good :) What's the point of the restrictions then if it's not to limit transmission and therefore deaths. I told you 99.97 and considerably higher among under 40's. Maybe we should introduce more passes for other diseases then

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435313#Comment_118435313

There are a couple of considerations which lie somewhere in between transmission and death. I suspect you have heard them and are just on here trolling.

sean29

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435360#Comment_118435360

Please tell me. And you still haven't answered my question how much quicker you will clear the virus than me

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435429#Comment_118435429

Sean, if you google viral loads in vaccinated people compared to unvaccinated, you will find numerous research articles to read which will answer your question more comprehensively than I will.

Could you be the only person who has not heard the correlation between vaccination and hospitalisation/ICU admissions, affect on treatments for people with other illnesses, severity of illness, absences from work, affect on schools etc etc? I find that hard to believe considering it is in the news on a daily basis, including the breakdown of vaccinated/unvaccinated in hospital.

Like most people, I have no problem with the requirement for Covid passes, I also have no problem with the fact you have a problem with it.

If you are hearing all this for the first time, I would suggest you just sit down with your computer/phone and google a few articles, the information is all there, rather than coming on here and asking why restrictions were introduced, it has been done to death here.

sean29

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435500#Comment_118435500

Lancet:

"Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory."

Don't you see lies about vaccine efficiency? How many boosters will it take for you to understand?

What about people who had covid already (majority at this point), why do they need a covid pass to enter a PUBLIC pool

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435591#Comment_118435591

Why did you leave out the first part of the bit you quoted? I mean that is the question you asked?

"Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory."

sean29

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435672#Comment_118435672

Romania? Explain. I shouldn've quoted this anyway because we are talking about spreading a disease with 99.97 and considerably higher survival rates, do you get that bit? Why the pass for this? What about other diseases, why there are no passes for them? Switch off the media and switch on your brain.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435828#Comment_118435828

Why are you dwelling on survival rates?

sean29

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435916#Comment_118435916

I'm hoping you will finally get how deadly this virus is but I think that's too much for me to ask

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435996#Comment_118435996

Mortality rates have not driven health policies related to Covid for almost a year since the vaccine rollout. You can of course ask, but the answer to that question, certainly in Ireland where vaccination rate is approx 94%, is that most of us do not fear dying from Covid. But of course death is not the only consideration, as you must well know.

sean29

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118436039#Comment_118436039

Ok just answer me this. You said about viral load, transmission, ok. A vaccine will only reduce transmission for 8 weeks. That means you would need a booster every month. I had covid already and I have immunity for years (probably lifetime). Do you not see the absurd of this situation?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118438251#Comment_118438251

Why would you think you have immunity for years (probably lifetime)?

sean29

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118438268#Comment_118438268

Do you even know how immune system works? Do you know that it's not only about IgG and IgM antibodies. Yes, those levels fall over time. Ever heard of memory T cells? In case of reinfection (which is rare*) your immune system will recognise the threat much faster and start producing antibodies much quicker. Google t cells

*Research from Quatar, 265,000 unvaccinated people. Just over 1,000 got reinfected, 4 (four) hospitalised, no deaths. Immune system 99.7 effective over 14 month period. No vaccine is even close to this figure.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2108120

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440707#Comment_118440707

Sean, where does the study you linked say you have immunity to infection, much less for years, or a lifetime?

The study you linked assessed the “risk of severe disease (leading to acute care hospitalization), critical disease (leading to hospitalization in an intensive care unit [ICU]), and fatal disease caused by reinfections as compared with primary infections”, it does not say you have immunity to Covid, nor does it give a timescale to the protection against severe infection, in fact, it says the duration of protection against severe disease “needs to be determined”.

The understanding that Covid infection does give some degree of immunity over the short term is not new, (I have yet to read any report or research that says it gives long term immunity to Covid, or severe symptoms) but Gyms do not have a right to ask for your confidential medical history, and many unvaccinated either may not know they had Covid if they were asymptomatic, or may not have gotten a PCR test so may not be able to show proof of recent recovery from Covid.

Sean there are new studies being released all the time and our understanding of Covid will improve, as will vaccines and therapeutics. But the study you linked does not support your statement on long term immunity, and will not change Government policy on Covid certs and gyms.

yosemitesam1

Does this end tonight? Haven't seen it being renewed anywhere