BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? **threadbans in OP**

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923168#Comment_118923168

If the opposition let him get away with it, he will survive. If they decide to apply the political pressure, they will win

Every time Johnson says he didn't know it was a lie he'll look like a bigger idiot.

His own party doesn't care but the voters will be swayed by repeated weaknesses being exposed repeatedly

If I was Starmer I'd go into the HOC with 3 life sized posters. 1 of Johnson, 1 of Zellinski, and one of Neville Chamberlain

I'd say Johnson could not even keep the lights out in his own flat during the blitz that was Covid.

That a true leader puts the people first, and Johnson always puts himself first, and then say Johnson cosying up to Russian Oligarchs is like why Chamberlain was replaced by Churchill (appeasement)

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923874#Comment_118923874

Wow. That's seriously fucked up

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924030#Comment_118924030

It's makes Australia's solution almost humane by comparison

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923598#Comment_118923598

Looks like he'll just maintain his position that he didn't realise the event in question was in breach of the rules.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2022/01/what-happens-if-boris-johnson-is-found-to-have-lied-to-parliament

Just looking into this business of a minister 'having to resign' if they lie to parliament, I find it's part of the ministerial code of conduct, which is not legally binding. So if a minister, and especially a PM, decides that in their own mind they didn't actually lie to parliament, there's not much anybody can do about it.

It is even harder to hold Johnson to account because he himself is the ultimate arbiter of the ministerial code. He decides whether a breach by a minister is investigated and what the punishment should be. Johnson has a large amount of discretion over the process. Moreover, his previous decisions on implementing the code suggest he holds it in low regard.

Akrasia

Legally binding and politically binding should not be the same things

The opposition need to make Johnson a political liability to the entire Tory party

The integrity of their democratic institutions depend on it

Once the rot sets in it tends to fester

astrofool

The opposition will be happy for him to stay till at least the local elections, he's a broken man that's plunged depths never seen before in a prime ministerial position.

I mean, how hard was it to just not have a party after telling everyone else not to have a party. The excuses are hilarious (and watching those defending trying to turn talk back to Ukraine all the time).

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923168#Comment_118923168

The defence that "I am solid bone from ear to ear" is not a great one in this context, though. The country doesn't need a prime minister who is oblivious to basic reality any more than it needs a prime minister who lies. "I'm too stupid to be considered dishonest" is not really a great qualification for high office.

Danzy

He will survive it. It's not an issue for the public and labour are non existent as usual.

Shouldn't but will survive.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924411#Comment_118924411

The only people who are saying "it's not an issue for the public" are Tories who are fully paid-up members of the Westminster Bubble. The plain fact is that when partygate broke the Tories took a dive in opinion polls from which they have not recovered; this found traction with the public where lots of other things didn't.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923646#Comment_118923646

Agreed, however part of his excuses is that he didn't organise or know about the gathering, and so there was no intent to break the rules in his actions. It also helps that the lines between No.10 as a residence and a workplace are blurry. It's flimsy, but it gives him an excuse to throw out there, which many of his supporters would accept and his Tory MP supporters can parrot in TV interviews.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924486#Comment_118924486

Doesn't explain why he lied about it by stating that no parties took place.

J

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923874#Comment_118923874

To be fair, that's very clever. Partygate has united people and most agree Johnson was wrong andnshould go. They need to divode them again and they need an issue that puts people back behind the classic old lines. This issue is perfect as it's immigration and racism.

Presumably they're not ginng to subject any nice white Ukranians to this treatment because they have channels for ukranians to come here safely and they're not going to open channels for the people escaping the war in Syria. So everyone can resume theire old divisions of racism vs immigration control and everything goes back to relative normality.

Cody montana

“*A One Show item introducing a new Nixon film*

Dan Stevens: “What you’ve got is a criminal for a leader who is wrapped in a messy war, embroiled in a stupid scandal and surrounded by ambitious idiots and really should resign … I’m sorry that’s the intro to Boris Johnson.””

If you haven’t seen the clip, I suggest you do, it’s beautiful.

Cody montana

The leader of labour is beyond useless.

He should be on every tv show, radio show, etc shouting about this.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924558#Comment_118924558

Here on planet Earth, Labour have been consistently ahead in the polls for going on five months now. We're at the point in the moral and political collapse of the Tory party where the Tory's own shenanigans are the best advertisement Labour could have. Not obscuring the exhibition that the Tories are making of themselves is probably quite a good strategy.

I'm not sure how they are going to spin spending £1.4B a year on this Rwanda plan.

Varik

Only official amount announced is 120m initially, the 1.4bn being reported is from a single quote from a NGO.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924975#Comment_118924975

To be fair, it's the kind of thing Torys get away with because everyone assumes they're (born) wealthy so they know all about money. If Labour wanted to do it, it would be an economic sh1tshow. Remember the term 'magic money tree'? Labour was accused of wanting a magic money tree and that was pre-covid, if you can imagine it.

It's just the way the British (mostly english) people think about the kinds of people who they think should rule them.

All in all, this is the perfect dead cat. It's divisive in the right ways. They'll never use terms like anchor babies, brown people or muslim, but they wont have to say them as theyre implied. It'll get everyone back into their party lines and put partygate innthe background. Taking back control and all that.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924495#Comment_118924495

Presumably he's going to say the birthday 'gathering' was so short and half-arsed it didn't rise to his definition of 'party' and probably if he faces more fines that the other 'parties' were 'work events' in his understanding. Reminiscent of Slick Willie claiming oral sex did not meet his definition of sexual relations I know, but when it comes to 'lying to parliament' under the ministerial code the PM is the ultimate judge and jury on his own conduct.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924411#Comment_118924411

Stop trying to pretend you are not a complete Tory zealot.

Also when do you start speaking for the public.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924954#Comment_118924954

No need for Starmer to be on TV when you have the likes of Fabricant to go out and win votes for Labour.

Leroy42

Yeah, Starmer coming on TV about it (he has stated the Johnson has serious questions to answer plenty if times) will only lead to the usual types turning on Starmer, highlighting that he once had a parking fine, or dropped litter or some such whataboutery.

Then the inevitable 'this is the Labour party that wanted Communistist Corbyn as PM' would be trotted out.

Far better to let the the Tories spin themselves further into the hole.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925163#Comment_118925163

I don’t think he's going to say anything. Why would he bring it up again? He's stated his position the first time he addressed it, that's it. End of story.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925163#Comment_118925163

"It's not a party unless it lasts for at least 48 hours and, at the end of it, nobody can find their underwear and three or more people are dead of drug overdoses!"

As for the PM being the ultimate judge of lying to Parliament, he's not. Parliament is.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925214#Comment_118925214

Yeah, he really put it to bed when he dealt with it the first time!

It will have to say something as every time he has come out to 'put it to bed' he raises even more questions because he can't work out a lie that makes sense. From there was never any parties, to I didn't know they were parties, to I didn't know that any gathering was against the rules, to it wasn't a gathering more a in formal business meeting, to Carrie was only there because it wasn't business and thus nothing to worry about, to of course Carrie was there as she organised it, to Carrie was as surprised as I was, to it was only 9 minutes.

The real issue is that for once it is all actually really simple and most people have first hand knowledge of the rules and they themselves were effected by them. Trying to clim that one didn't understand the rules flies in the face of every ordinary person who had wall to wall coverage of the rules. Normally Johnson can hide being complexity and confuse the issue but this is so clear cut that even he, a consummate liar, is struggling to come up with a convincing line.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925291#Comment_118925291

Under the ministerial code he is. Of course parliament could always vote 'no confidence' in him and if enough Tories supported it he would have to go. But it would have the power to do that if there never was a ministerial code.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925294#Comment_118925294

We'll see. I really doubt he'll getting to the detailsnof whatbhe thought and when. I don't see any reason for him to bring it up again. He'll just dodge questions from the media ansld saybhe wants to get on with the job at hand. I really don't see an instance where he voluntarily starts explaining what he thought the parties were.

What circumstances do you see him explaining any of that stuff? A committee hearing maybe?

Leroy42

It would appear that more fines are coming. So that drags it out. Sunak be be questioned about it, that will bring it back up. Carrie will be asked about it, that brings it back up. The Gary report will eventually be published, that will bring it back up.

I don't believe any of these will result in his resignation or removal, just that this story is not going away. We have been told that this story has run it course multiple times, it has never been true. There is no reason to think that it is true this time either.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925174#Comment_118925174

I couldn't give a shi7 if Boris dropped dead.

Personally I think that the bomb in Brighton wasn't half big enough.

Events have over taken it. He won't be resigning, that's now obvious.

I think he should.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925575#Comment_118925575

Its run its course in terms of whether he'll resign. He won't resign. Now it will rumble on in the background as an annoyance. But that's it. It's not s serious threat to Johnson anymore. It has done damage but its in the past. He weathered the storm.