General Irish politics discussion thread

pureza

Gannon worked from home a lot or from his constituency office

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a T.D doing that when they live so close

It DOES NOT mean they weren't working or were away golfing

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121784402#Comment_121784402

I gave the definition of fraud in response to you, which Gannon's behaviour clearly falls under.

I never mentioned any SF TDs? But any TD that fradulently claims expenses should lose their seat. In the UK they actually punished politicians for this, as we should do.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121784443#Comment_121784443

He claimed travel expenses. Some TDs don't claim them at all, or only claim a small amount, Gannon claimed €28,270 of them in a single year to commute a 2km round trip. While only attending his work place for less than 50% of the work days that year, literally the lowest of any TD in the Dail. Despite living one of the shortest distances away.

Are you trying to claim this is reasonable behaviour? Do you think this is a fair amount of travel expenses to claim from the Irish tax payer, given the distances involved? Do you think it actually cost him that much to travel to work, ie it wasnt' a fradulent claim?

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786018#Comment_121786018

How did literally every single other TD in the Dail, who all also work from home or their constituency office, mostly from much geographically further away, manage to attend more votes than him while doing so? Including many sitting ministers, who presumably have a lot more on their plate to balance?

If someone is literally the worst attending member of the Dail, despite being one of the closest geographically, and while only being a backbench TD, then theres a fair dollop of laziness in the mix too.

Water John

Gary Gannon may have other issues that restrict him. Don't be jumping to simple conclusions like, laziness;

https://www.thejournal.ie/td-gary-gannon-mental-health-adhd-6293983-Feb2024/

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787148#Comment_121787148

You are still banging out this accusation of fraud despite providing absolutely no evidence of intent to defraud. Either provide your evidence or else stop trying to libel the guy!

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787348#Comment_121787348

I gave the exact definition of fraud. And listed his exact actions, which it applies to.

Do you think he non-fraudulently accumulated travel expenses of €28,270, in one year, commuting from Dublin Central to Leinster House?

For 108 days of attendance, commuting approximately 2km each way. That works out to €130 for each 2km trip that he billed to the tax payers of Ireland.

How exactly do you think this is in any way reasonable or justified? Or even possible to achieve non-fraudulently?

I'd genuinely love to know how its possible to legitimately rack up travel expenses of €65 per km. The already generous civil service mileage rate for travel of that distance is 41-51cent per km, less than 1/100th of what he claimed.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787148#Comment_121787148

Post a link stating where he claimed €28,270 in Travel expenses.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789257#Comment_121789257

Right, I'm going to insist on you showing us evidence of your claims that he "billed to the tax payers of Ireland" fraudently or I'm going to take action. Passing the question back to me is not backing it up. I want to see your actual evidence. You've made a serious allegation and failed to substantiate it instead just waffling the same old same old. Time to back up your remarks.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789284#Comment_121789284

Ok, the publicly available information doesn't seem to break down how much of the PSA goes on the TAA(Travel and Accommodation Allowance) specifically. So short of recommending you to do some FOIs I'll happily retract that specific claim, but I'll replace it with one I can verify with easily accessible, public, figures:

Gary Gannon was forced to repay "over €1000" in travel expenses for attending 108 days of attendance in the Dail[1].

The TAA states: "payment is verified by attendance in Leinster House for 120 days annually. Members must repay 1% of the allowance for each day less than the required number." [2]

"Over €1000" was therefore verifiably 12% of Gary Gannon's claim that year. Which would mean his specific TAA travel expenses claim was €8,500 or above.

For a 2km round trip, on 108 days of the year. Which works out to at least approx €40 per 2km trip. Less than the prior, but still 100 times higher than the already generous civil service mileage allowance of 41c-51c per km. So, again, do you think this is a justified level of travel expense for the tax payers of Ireland to be paying for? Can you say why exactly?

Do note that not all TDs claim this either, its entirely optional - ie "Sinn Féin's Eoin Ó Broin and senators Fintan Warfield and Lynn Boylan, Social Democrats TD Cian O'Callaghan, and Fianna Fáil's Jim O'Callaghan all declined to make claims under the TAA."[3]

Nobody is forcing him to claim this questionably large sum of money for his short commute.

[1]https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/td-forced-to-pay-back-1000-expenses-due-to-poor-attendance/b41788265.html

[2]https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/members/parliamentaryAllowances/other/2022/2022-07-21_information-on-the-parliamentary-standard-allowance-and-end-of-year-statements-2021_en.pdf

[3]https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-41133727.html

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789784#Comment_121789784

The top Google definition for fraud when I search is ""Fraud is an intentionally deceptive action designed to provide the perpetrator with an unearned gain", as I posted originally.

I've posted the above links for the exact amounts, with sources, for what was billed to the tax payers of Ireland in this instance.

Claiming €40+ per km of travel expenses would fit the above definition by any reasonable person's standard I would think. I literally can't think of any legitimate way to run up travel expenses of that level, for a 2km city center commute. But as I said, I'm very open to hearing any.

In addition to that, he was also, literally, "forced to pay back" tax payers money that he had deliberately claimed, for his own financial gain [1, above], because he wasn't legally entitled to it. Surely that very much meets the definition of an intentionally, dishonestly, claimed, unearned gain?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790364#Comment_121790364

So just to be clear: you're stating that Gannon deliberately submitted fraudulent travel expenses and then repaid the money when found out (and it wasnt something as you've already been told like the expenses being paid automatically) ?

In addition, you that you have not provided evidence of his fraud.

Lastly you are also stating that this tweet of Gannon's is not correct as the expenses weren't automatically paid up front?

https://twitter.com/GaryGannonTD/status/1541000327192875010?t=3PYA3cq8Q3yGZ9ZavDCOJg&s=19

Have I got that all correct or am I not understanding your accusation correctly?

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790364#Comment_121790364

The Parliamentary Standard Allowance(PSA) is an allowance that is made of a Travel and Accommodation Allownce (TAA) and a Public Representative Allownce (PRA). The PSA is paid monthly. The TAA is broken down into bands based on distance to work. For TDs living within 25km their allowance is €9,000. Members must reached 120 days in the Dail to keep the €9,000, otherwise they repay 1% for each day they are below that number. Its not an expense claim, hence the reason the it is called an allowance. Availing of an allowance is not fraud. No matter how tines you try and claim it is.

Seth Brundle

Mod: one month forum ban applied to Blut2 for refusing to provide evidence behind a libellous accusation.

Brussels Sprout

Woah - I missed this news from Sunday. Reading reports from last week it seemed like Madigan had this one sewn up. She's not gonna be happy.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-41334727.html

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791767#Comment_121791767

Absolutely deserved considering Josepha's involvement in swing gate

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792026#Comment_121792026

Don't forget her explicit targeting of travellers in her election pamphlets either.

Does anyone know how that selection worked? Like did Doherty get picked because they wanted to avoid a Dail bye-election or was it more democratic than that?

Hotblack Desiato

She would give up a ministerial (of state, but still) post to become an MEP? Why??

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792040#Comment_121792040

Don't forget her explicit targeting of travellers in her election pamphlets either.

Regina's cupboard would have some skeletons too.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792154#Comment_121792154

Because shes not going to get re-elected, Neale Richmond will get the only FG seat and she will get the boot

Brussels Sprout

I wouldn't write her off completely but it'll be a tough battle. Here's how it ended up last time:

Catherine Martin won't get that same vote next time whereas SF will likely move into the jostling. So basically it'll be 5 candidates battling for 3 seats.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792299#Comment_121792299

Four seats next time, taking in some bits of DL.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792299#Comment_121792299

Up to 4 seats. Richmond & Madigan both virtual certs

Doherty on the other hand would have little or no chance whether she runs in either of the new Fingals or back in MeaTH

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792299#Comment_121792299

I agree it will be a fight but I think SF will grab the seat from Josepha, Martin will just hold on and Richmond will keep his comfortably enough. FF haven't a chance.

VinLieger

Ohh if its 4 now then Josepha and Shay will be fighting it out for the 4th id reckon

Brussels Sprout

if FG can't take 2 from 4 in what sounds like it'll be one of the wealthiest constituencies in the country then they'll be in serious trouble in the General Election.

L1011

Shane Ross's FPV is going to be going to FG most likely also.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792578#Comment_121792578

Yep Foxrock & surrounding area apparently added to the constituency. The one defence would be Martin very much an FG-type candidate stealing a big chunk of their vote...

Water John

Regina, mediocre, but FG probably happy to see her go, if she wins a seat. LB have made a good choice in Munster with Niamh Hourigan. wish her well.

blanch152

In that four-seater, I would predict 2 FG, 1 Green, and the last seat between FF and SF. I would expect FF to shade it on transfers, as Brennan was 400 behind SF last time out and still finished ahead by 1500.

FrancieBrady

Unbelievable really. The board have had to have been dragged kicking and screaming to just be transparent.

The minister is totally inept to allow it get to this.

https://twitter.com/franmcnulty/status/1760782126184632329

FrancieBrady

What a mess. I think the entire Board should have gone long ago, but now I think this Minister has to go as well. Incompetence since the get go.

What an absolute shambles. What was she doing on Prime Time last night, basically sacking a board chairperson live on air, who advised her on that?

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1760788546502144066