General Irish politics discussion thread

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086291#Comment_121086291

Also a degree of performative smugness.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086344#Comment_121086344

We're not total cheapskates who can't even staff a fishery protection vessel, we're principled!

Xenophile

Is it time to close the Russian embassy in Dublin and our own embassy in Moscow ? I think it is.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085931#Comment_121085931

We are just cheapskates, we rely (or have relied) on the likes of the UK and US to do the heavy lifting in defeating the baddies in the world, whether it be the Nazis, the Cold war or whatever. Even now we still rely on the raf to intercept a Russian jet if it threatens our airspace with their transponders turned off, as sometimes happens. Were there not incidents in 2020 where Russian Tupolev TU-95 “Bear” aircraft twice entered Irish-controlled air space and had to be escorted away by RAF jets?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121089966#Comment_121089966

We’ve defeated any baddies who invaded or subjugated us. We didn’t need to be in any military alliances to do it.

We give the UK permission to enter our airspace if they feel threatened. We also allow the US to use our airports.

The Irish people do not wish to be a part of a military alliance and the government has no wish to subvert that wish. Democracy of a republic in action.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090010#Comment_121090010

We’ve defeated any baddies who invaded or subjugated us.

Who cares about a middling 800 years in the middle right? We also relied on significant foreign support multiple times over multiple failed and one eventual succesful attempt.

Ireland currently don't need to worry about invasion thankfully. And there are valid reasons to not unduly worry about national defense in the classic sense. "We defeated everyone who invaded" is quite obviously not one of them because it's an insane reading of irish history.

Also what happened to your view that it's the job of the government to lay out thr future and bring the people with them as in the case of a UI?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090038#Comment_121090038

Lost your sense of humour there Podge?

The notion that the UK and US protected us from ‘baddies’ is a preposterous and ludicrous load of simplistic twaddle when one of them was routinely subjugating us not to mention being one of the worst baddies seen in the world to date. Their death toll only surpassed by a few others.

The UK didn’t give two hoots what happened to us and only patrol our airspace to protect themselves.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090067#Comment_121090067

Apparently.

I'm fully aware they don't do it for our benefit. Although we do benefit from it nonetheless.

All of Europe have fractious history with other European countries. It doesn't preclude them all now being in an alliance now. Our neutrality is a happenstance of geography and not some moral statement though. We don't take the discussion very seriously in Ireland.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090088#Comment_121090088

Well I consider my stance on neutrality a moral one.

I want nothing to do with the geopolitical games played in which all the principal players can be criticised.

I don’t think I’m alone in that view. And that is not a defence of Russia before the usual crew arrive.

Xenophile

There is no morality in politics and I consider that to be a good thing.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090111#Comment_121090111

Sure but your morals would fall apart if British tanks started rolling across the border.

That we have the ability to remain (mostly) neutral is a function of nothing but geography. We could at least have the honesty to admit that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090111#Comment_121090111

To be truly neutral would mean that we're armed to the teeth and can defend ourselves without the NEED for an alliance.

We hang off the coat-tails of Europe and the US

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085931#Comment_121085931

To be fair we are only neutral in a military alliance standpoint. We are not neutral otherwise. Plus the fact that we do not possess any credible military and intelligence capability makes a mockery of our military neutral stance. More like we are spongers in thar regard really.

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121089693#Comment_121089693

Would be fine with me.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090230#Comment_121090230

Please stop. There are plenty in the world who have the same moral stance on the games played by military alliances geography aside.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090341#Comment_121090341

They're not "games"

I think this is the fundamental issue at play. You don't get to choose to sit out either just cause you said so.

Ireland are geographically poorly placed to have been under the cosh of the British for so long. They are geographically well places to be safe in a world with cordial relations with the UK. But everything about our safety and ability to put our heads in the sand is on the back of the current benevolence of the UK. Which frankly I'm personally fine with but let's at least acknowledge that reality.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090701#Comment_121090701

They're not "games"

Yes it was until Putin decided to use Ukraine as a sacrificial pawn.. Stand back from it and look at what it is really about. Putin is sending messages to NATO via Ukraine.

cclaireadrianne5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085931#Comment_121085931

and its good

Xenophile

Richard Bruton has announced that he will not be standing in the next general election. Time to pay tribute to this fine politician who gave a lifetime of service to the country.

Xenophile

Russia playing it's war games of the Irish coast, if there were Nato forces in the area it would be a real deterrent. Lets get rid of this nest of spies in Orwell Road.

The Russian people need to be convinced that Putin is up to no good.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121091635#Comment_121091635

Russia playing it's war games of the Irish coast,

NATO plays war games simulating war with Russia. And on the games go.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121091748#Comment_121091748

If your first reaction when hearing criticism of Russia is to reach for the "What about NATO?" then that's telling.

You're not alone of course. It's basically what PBP and Jeremy Corbyn have done for the past 2 years. The far-left in the West has really shown its true colours over the last 18 months.

It's more important to them to hand wave about Russian war crimes (or at best condemn them as quickly as possible so as to check that particular box) until they get down to what they really want to do: put the boot into NATO and the USA. Never mind that the Russian Empire is and was just as bad an imperial power as any of the European colonial powers of the past. The difference is that Russia never gave its colonies back. To this day they're still looting the ethnic republics like Dagestan, Chechnya, Tuva and Buryatia of their young men to disproportionately send them off to be slaughtered in Ukraine so that the ethnic Russians of Moscow and St Petersburg get to stay at home.

I'm really perplexed by the far-left's stance. Russia, in its current guise, is literally a fascist state. That's not hyperbole. It checks all of the boxes. This should be an open goal for any self respecting far-left grouping, party or individual to be diametrically opposed to them. I'm not sure if they are being willfully blind or else it's like ciriticising the USA is all they ever knew and it's all they ever want to know.

I used to give the far-left candidates middling preferences in elections. Never again. Come the next election I'll sticking them at the bottom along with all the Nation Party/Irish Freedom party types.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092267#Comment_121092267

I'm neutral.

I look at what both sides do.

If that makes me some sort of left wing deviant, so be it.

P.S. I am not looking for your vote either, what your voting intentions are is your own business.

Geuze

In terms of SF doing well in the next election, I have a question.

Do they have enough candidates to be able to have two in maybe 40 constituencies?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090220#Comment_121090220

This itself a morally-grounded political stance. Just sayin'.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092300#Comment_121092300

You are not neutral. You, judging by tens of thousands of posts on boards.ie on the matter, are behind it all as anti-British as they come and your reaction, on hearing criticism of Russia, is the same as the Sinn Fein one "What about NATO?". As someone else said, that is telling.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095351#Comment_121095351

Agree Peregrinus.

As neutrals we should not feel the need to be silent if criticism is justified.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095831#Comment_121095831

Peregrinus just said "This itself a morally-grounded political stance. Just sayin'." in relation to the statement by someone else " There is no morality in politics and I consider that to be a good thing.". lol. It is quite funny to think of you and SF as neutrals Francie! I suppose you are neutral on some things when it suits you.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096019#Comment_121096019

I was referring to our government which is what this thread is about. Morally, they should not be silent if criticism is warranted, be the government made up of FF FG SF The Greens or whoever.

That should be part of our role as neutrals as well as as our peace keeping roles in trouble/conflict zones.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096059#Comment_121096059

lol some neutrality you and SF have; I wonder would a SF government here be worried about Russian jets in our airspace over the west coast with their transponders turned off, or will be rely on the RAF yet again? Only two years ago at the SF Ard Feis someone on the stage voiced support for the government of Cuba, condemning “counter-revolutionary and imperialist“ attacks against it. I suppose helping out by going bird watching under false passports in areas controlled by farc guerillas and anti-imperialism are very important. When Mary Lou met Biden, it was all smiles, SF only preaches about anti-US imperialism behind their backs. It was a pity there was the deletion of thousands of press statements (going back over 20 years) in early 2022 on on the SF website. Of course, it was not an attempt to pivot Sinn Féin’s position on issues such Russia and NATO. ;)