General Irish politics discussion thread

blanch152

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-vagabond-millionaire-the-derelict-house-and-the-sinn-fein-money/a227562964.html

To those that think that Sinn Fein either want to do something about the housing situation or have anything other than their own selfish interests to the fore, this article makes for educational reading. Sinn Fein have been sitting on property for five years leaving it derelict, and want to make a profit from it by selling to the State and send the money to Northern Ireland, which they consider a different jurisdiction for money purposes.

If Sinn Fein really had the interests of the people at heart, they would just donate this property and others to the State. Nothing to stop them doing that. Remember it is derelict and not in use, before people start asking about other properties in use.

Cal4567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128666#Comment_121128666

The Indo finding an angle on the old SF Hampton story, otherwise known as 'Let's find an angle, any angle, to kick SF' while repeatedly ignoring decades of FFG corruption. It's core readership must be happy enough with corruption or are just too thick to understand it.

May I humbly suggest similar attempts to dissect other parties' finances with this level of scrutiny.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128723#Comment_121128723

No other political party has the money that Sinn Fein have. On its own, the Hampton donation is possibly bigger than the annual income of any other party. Fine Gael have income of around €5.7m in 2021, but donations only amounted to 10k. Hampton's donation is worth 400 years of that level of donations.

Hoarding derelict properties at a time of a housing crisis is not a good look.

If you want to go through the accounts, here is the link:

https://www.sipo.ie/reports-and-publications/political-party-accounts/

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128760#Comment_121128760

The state doesn't want the property. Why would they give it to the state? To lie derelict some more?

 However, the council doesn’t believe the property is suitable for its needs.

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121116923#Comment_121116923

No. Pat Rabbitte did not 'seem to be saying' any such thing, re actively misleading people being okay. He just said what he said. As I've stated above.

Water John

https://www.thejournal.ie/protest-dail-leinster-house-arrests-6173513-Sep2023/

Maybe I'm only giving these gobshites oxygen. Peaceful protest outside the Dail is a time honoured respected part of public discourse. Do these thugs see themselves as special and answerable to nobody?

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136013#Comment_121136013

But the question was asked in the context of Gilmore's broken promise on child benefit, and must surely be taken as an explanation of/justification for that, unless he specified otherwise. In that context, 'keeping it simple' meant making what would sound to any reasonable person like an absolute, line-in-the sand commitment not to agree to further cuts in child benefit but that when you dig down turns out to be hedged about with terms and conditions like "if the economic situation doesn't deteriorate further" I don't believe most voters would regard that as a legitimate way of 'keeping it simple'.

lumphammer2

What was going on outside the Dail yesterday was disgraceful ... people have a right to protest and voice concerns but they do not have a right to intimidate and rob from anyone .... politicians and their aides were threatened and phones robbed ... there was a general feeling of being unsafe for anyone in the vicinity yesterday ....

It is clear there are well organised funded agitators infiltrating all protest movements ... the far right types with a cause only to disrupt ... Gemma O'Doherty, John Waters, all that lot .... and their Irish Light rag .... are not far from any of this you can bet .... talking to an Iranian friend who told me that's how Iran's far right regime started off ... infiltrating any anti-Shah/anti-government event and handing out leaflets and tapes of far right propaganda from banned Iranian Neo-Nazi parties .... the Shah was right to ban them as we know now and the recent Mahsa Amini protests that resulted from current policies of Iran's Neo-Nazi Paydari party's current rule .... proper necessary protests by the way ... show where far right aka Nazi rule leads ...

Ireland has problems but Ireland is in a good place relative to other countries .... the one thing we do not need is Nazi thugs intimidating our elected officials as well as the general public on our streets .... every kind of pusher of the Irish Light are emerging handing out that disjointed rag to anyone foolish enough to accept it ... it is time we put an end to peddlars of propaganda disseminating lies ...

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136418#Comment_121136418

I don't think they were any different to the thugs who prevented Joan Burton from leaving a function in Tallaght a few years ago. Letting those thugs off has come back to haunt us. We can't have one rule for protesting thugs we like and another rule for protesting thugs we don't like.

We should have a designated area, maybe inside Merrion Square, where protests can be held. That means politicians can go about their business without being intimidated.

Hotblack Desiato

Thuggery and intimidation was the whole point of this 'protest'. They're not going to toddle off to Merrion Square unfortunately.

Yes what Paul Murphy and co were let away with was a disgrace, and now as a direct result (and Garda inaction during covid) we have something worse.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137173#Comment_121137173

The likes of what went on yesterday and what happened in Jobstown with Joan Burton were not protests. There is no need for special areas in which to protest because by its civil nature, protest should be peaceful. However, any attempt at thuggery, intimidation, violence or any of the crap that went on yesterday should be met with the full force of the law.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137337#Comment_121137337

Agreed - As soon as projectiles were used then it's game over.

It's no longer a "protest", it's a proto-riot and needs to be shut-down immediately.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137337#Comment_121137337

10 Each House shall make its own rules and standing orders, with power to attach penalties for their infringement, and shall have power to ensure freedom of debate, to protect its official documents and the private papers of its members, and to protect itself and its members against any person or persons interfering with, molesting or attempting to corrupt its members in the exercise of their duties.

This is the relevant part of the Constitution. It is arguable that these provisions now require the Oireachtas to declare the immediate environs of the Dail and Seanad as areas where protest is not allowed, given the events that have transpired.

Cal4567

History shows that peaceful protest just doesn't get you noticed. Walk pass Kildare Street each week you'll see protest after protest getting little media attention never mind much interest from those inside Leinster House.

Just 200 showed up yesterday and the media and political class are having a meltdown.

As for the pearl clutching from the Left, 3-4 years back they were taking a very different view of the BLM matches, but of course that was the right type of protest.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137439#Comment_121137439

My point is that we don't need to create a buffer zone. We just need swift and firm policing (with swift and firm judicial sentencing) if and when the likes of yesterday's antics were to start. It is the same kind of thug that thinks it is ok to protest outside a TD's home or outside a hospital. Again a buffer zone is not needed - we need firm justice to protect people's (including politicians) constitutional rights.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137511#Comment_121137511

There have been plenty of peaceful protests that have had an impact. I'm especially reminded of the pensioners who protested about possible pension cuts.

As for the "Just 200 showed up yesterday and the media and political class are having a meltdown." - not sure about the meltdown comment (and I won't comment on the daft use of "political class") but people throwing bottles of urine, mugging, issuing death threats and other violent actions simply deserve prison sentences.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137567#Comment_121137567

The creation of a buffer zone has to be on the table. Certainly, if yesterday's antics become the norm, a buffer zone would be required by the Constitution.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137658#Comment_121137658

Is there not already a buffer zone marked by the large gates and manned by guards?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137697#Comment_121137697

Clearly the buffer zone isn't working.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137511#Comment_121137511

So were people having death threads screamed at them at BLM marches in Dublin, or bottles of piss thrown at them, or being called paedos, or being mugged?

If this "protest" was as great and effective as you think, can you actually say what they were protesting about? Something something immigrits (as expected), something something covid (? it's 2023 lads ffs), something something antivaxx 🙄, something something any passerby is a paedo (??). A brainless rabble

Hermy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137511#Comment_121137511

When the OAP's marched on Leinster House in 2008, and did so peacefully, they got a lot of notice.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121141591#Comment_121141591

And a good bit of cash!

Hotblack Desiato

The group that did the best out of the Bertie years demanded, and got, to keep their gains even though the country was broke. Meanwhile many families were strugging to keep the lights on and a roof over their heads.

FrancieBrady

FG should embrace this and make it look like they are actively modernising the party. Change their conservative right wing-ish look. Might improve their polling.

The feeling a ship is being abandoned is hard to shake.

https://www.businesspost.ie/politics/michael-brennan-fine-gael-left-to-wonder-who-will-be-next-to-go-charlie-flanagan/

Hotblack Desiato

Talk about spin. He's 66 and he's not some right-wing conservative either.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121161548#Comment_121161548

Fine Gael would not be perceived as having a 'conservative, right wing-ish' look?

I think you are wrong, I think that would be one of the reasons many young voters are rejecting FG and indeed FF.

Whether they are or not is not really the point.

marno21

Sean Sherlock joins Howlin in deciding against standing for Labour next time out.

Alan Kelly and Duncan Smith have their 5 seaters split into two 3 seaters, leaving Nash, Bacik and O Riordain.

Could be a very small grouping after the next election

L1011

Lawlor should retain the Wexford seat.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213702#Comment_121213702

This guy says the redraw would have benefited Howlin hugely

https://irishelectionprojections.com/wexford/

Not sure if this holds for his replacement. Regardless I wouldn't put my house on any of them retaining their seats although they would be very unlucky to be totally wiped out. Most likely hold 1 or 2....

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121215277#Comment_121215277

Lawlor came 3rd in FPV / second on elimination order in the 2019 by-election there so he has already shown he can get the votes on a county wide basis. I'd be fairly confident he'll get in.

By comparison, the changes meant Sherlock was dead in the water if he stayed in Cork East and only slightly more chance if he moved to Cork NC, where he'd be competing for the nomination with John Maher anyway.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121215277#Comment_121215277

Have to agree with this, Kehoe is fighting for the last seat with Murphy. Browne, Mythen and Lawler would be safe.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the polarisation of politics will hurt independents in the next election. People who would hate Sinn Fein might drift back to FF/FG, while people who hate FF/FG might drift to SF.