Formula 1 Round 22 Abu Dhabi GP

Car99

And Latifi is going to get a call to drive for one of the rebuild teams in the future

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313273#Comment_118313273

The question we have to ask is whether Masi would have taken the same action on the opening race.

He implemented a safety car procedure that has never been seen before. Basically saying lets have a shootout between P1 and P2 ... P3 nah you're not allowed to take part. Would he have done this in the opening race, if they were all three on 0 points ?

I think any reasonable person would say no, he wouldn't do it on the first race. He did it due to the championship circumstances, to create a final spectacle between Lewis and Max.

Anyone who agrees that it would not have happened on race 1 cannot logically support it occurring during the last race, or any race.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313494#Comment_118313494

Very similar to T27 last week where they threatened Hamilton with a black/white flag.

Just Some Young Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313008#Comment_118313008

No offence but I don’t care about your opinion. The deltas showed the speed that the three cars did over the last lap. Under blue flag conditions the FIA believe that Max would have caught Lewis. Like I’ve said, their official response implies this.

If Hamilton had known that they’d have got one lap he probably would still not have pitted. That would have handed Max track position and Lewis while faster on newer tyres wouldn’t have been guaranteed to pass him.

Sainz and Ferrari are not unhappy with the situation. You don’t need to be unhappy for them. You also don’t have to agree with this decision from the FIA but they’re using concrete data and facts that you don’t have access to. You’re basing your argument on your interpretation and opinion of the rules.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313506#Comment_118313506

So.... it wasn't followed is what you are saying, then partially implemented... followed by the SC coming in a lap early. COOL. all utterly reasonable and fair.

flazio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313426#Comment_118313426

Without those half points, Lewis would have been champion before we even got to Abu Dhabi.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313410#Comment_118313410

And then people would be saying that Masi's decision to allow all the lapped cars past Vestappen to get Hamilton up his exhaust was flawed

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313530#Comment_118313530

I did not understand the reason why the backmarkers weren't allowed to pass, which would have been normal procedure, and something everyone was expecting, They messed up there I think and tried to correct this somehow by using their discrepancy...

Do you agree that if normal procedures would have been followed the outcome would have been the same ?

Just Some Young Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313439#Comment_118313439

What everyone seems to be failing to recognise is that the cars that passed were also battling for position and some important constructors points. The RD’s decision was to “let them race”. Those drivers were able to scrap it out for one lap and so too were the leaders.

I get why some people think this is controversial. I agree it sets a precedent. However, it is not illegal that the RD, when faced with a completely unique situation, made a completely unique decision to deal with it.

I am happy to discuss the decision objectively. We can pull in the released statements from the FIA and dissect them in a non-biased manner but being bitter that Lewis lost is just stupid at this point.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313439#Comment_118313439

Where are you coming up with this?

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313560#Comment_118313560

No ... Because that is the normal procedure.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313521#Comment_118313521

No offence taken but the last lap ( assuming you are talking about THE last lap ) was not atypical, RB were on FRESH soft tyres, an ADVANTAGE was handed to them on a plate by removing the back markers between RB and MB, without that happening who knows what the result would have been

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313506#Comment_118313506

Except normal procedures would mean the safety car stayed out for another lap after the lapped cars over take.

So no, the last lap absolutely wouldn’t have happened as that would have resulted in the race finishing behind the safety car.

It wouldn’t have happened earlier as Masi deemed it was unsafe to do so.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313532#Comment_118313532

Without the Mercs taking Max out on several occasions and all the other weird luck they had we would have celebrated a Verstappen world title months ago.

Just Some Young Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313591#Comment_118313591

In a similar way that an advantage was handed to Merc after Copse and even after not forcing Lewis to return the place on lap 1. I agree that the momentum was firmly flipped to be in RBs favor, that doesn't make it illegal. And from the FIAs perspective it is defensible.

klose

Safety cars are such an element in racing that strategies are built around them and you'll often hear drivers saying the likes of "could do with a safety car" or "hopefully there won't be a safety car". Not the first or last time a race has been dictated by them. Is it fair? You could argue not, but it's for the safety of the Marshalls which is what ultimately matters.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313562#Comment_118313562

Some of the back makers were allowed to race, others weren't. Ricciardo pitted for softs under SC in anticipation of a being allowed to race. He came out in P12 on softs with a string of cars on hards in front, no doubt fancied a few divebombs into the points.

But arbitrarily he was not allowed to unlap himself and "go racing", while 5 cars in front were. Instead he was left between Verstappen and Sainz. He could do nothing with his position, the car in front had scurried 22s into the distance. He immediately started getting blue flags.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313532#Comment_118313532

How did you work that out?? Without the half points Max would have been 5 clear of him coming into Abu Dhabi?!?

KevRossi

The Scousers called it first....

(also gives a great idea of the intensity of the braking and acceleration in the cars in real time).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr1F8jCxw4k

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313591#Comment_118313591

Had Lewis pitted during the VSC he would have had a far better chance at holding max off.

Had Checo not put in some phenomenal work slowing Hamilton down he may have had enough time to pit for new tires and maintain track position at the last safety car.

Mercedes decisions and Red Bulls excellent teamwork were the deciding factors about what happened at the end of the race. Even if you leave the back markers in between them, Max would have enough pace to catch them.

Just Some Young Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313641#Comment_118313641

I get what you're saying and all I'm saying is - Danny Ric was more than likely not going to gain 22s in a lap. The FIA after the race used the delta to confirm that they allowed the drivers in the "contested" positions to race, or so it seems based on the letter that was released and the Sky punditry interpretation of that letter.

The only team on the grid lodging a protest is Mercedes. If the decision prevented Ric from contesting a position that they realistically thought was within their reach then we would have seen them protest also. Same goes for Sainz in third. However, that's not the case which leads me to believe that the punditry are correct in their interpretation.

KevRossi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118312720#Comment_118312720

The issue for me right now is the Race Director, he needs to be changed, as does the method of communication with him. I'd suggest a permanent panel of stewards with a RD at the top to make the final decision.

Who should do it? No idea, I don't follow F1 that intimately any more. Derek Warwick was a steward there yesterday, former F1 driver with 20 years experience in the admin side of it. Maybe him? But I won't make a definite call on it. Either way, Masi isn't suited to the game.

You need a former racer in there as RD who can understand the drivers side of it. It's one of the reasons why I like Brundle so much as a commentator even though I disagree with him often enough.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313600#Comment_118313600

So he used his discretion in two instances ..... He probably used it to avoid a world title decider finishing behind the safety car.. Question was if that was allowed. And it was decided by the stewards it was.

During the stewards' hearing Masi said "that it had long been agreed by all the teams that where possible it was highly desirable for the race to end in a "green" condition (i.e. not under a Safety Car)."

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313673#Comment_118313673

But he wouldn't have been 22s behind if they'd all passed the safety car!

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313561#Comment_118313561

No, because the safety car would have come in a lap later. Had everything happened a lap earlier, back markers unlapped and set to race on the last lap having everything been followed - fair enough. but that is not what happened. and the strategy call by Merc (and RB only had to do the opposite) was correct if procedure was followed. There wasn't enough time to follow procedure and get back to racing. Merc could not have know Masi would not follow procedure, hand Max the title and that the FIA wouldn't be arsed about the rules.

ctrl-alt-delete

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313656#Comment_118313656

Great view of it, no DRS involved though.

SlickRic

I just have to say, there are a few too many Max fans (or anti-Lewis fans) who seem to think those calling the end a shítshow think Max should be stripped of the title somehow.

Not at all.

But it should be made clear that Mercedes did get screwed in this instance. That's ok to say. You can still maintain that Max is a worthy champion, but say the end was a farce.

citytillidie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118312634#Comment_118312634

Wait to you hear about Hamilton being a lap down after crashing and being allowed fix the car & unlap himself and and with the faster car going on to finish 2nd in the GP and claim fastest lap

BrookieD

Its' amazing how many causal fans are losing there minds over this race and have a misguided opinion on race rules etc... try to frame the result by comparing to another sport like football etc... laughable. Cannot wait to watch Drive to Survive next March ;-)

rock22

I think, over this season, it could be argued that Mercedes and Lewis , benefited more from SC's and the ruling of the stewards. Overall I think Verstappen deserved the title so congratulations to him and RB.

But should the chance of a safety car have such a big influence on the result? Perhaps it is time to look at the rules regarding safety cars again.

It is often unclear why we get a full safety car or a virtual safety car. Or when a decision is to red flag the race. Could the sport survive with the VSC and red flag only and get rid of the full safety car? IS there a need to change what can or can not be done during a VSC and Red flag? Of course teams build in strategies around the possibilities of a safety car. And RB definitely had a much better, though riskier, strategy yesterday. Mercedes were caught out a bit.

I am tired of all back and forth with the RD during the race, mostly from Toto and Horner. No team should be allowed contact the RD, except on safety matters concerning their own cars, during the race. Communication should be one way only , RD to the teams. We should not have the nonsense we had in Saudi Arabia of telling Verstappen to allow Hamilton to overtake but not apparently telling Mercedes in time that was going to happen.

We should get rid of the rotating ex-drivers on the stewards panel for each race and have permanent stewards for the whole season in order to bring some consistency into the process.

It is a pity, from the sports point of view, that it looks like this might end up in endless court appeals. I doubt if Mercedes HQ are driving this, I suspect it is more from Toto.( Not too sure how much Daimler Benz actually own of the team )