Semi Auto CF new license

dalalada

Hi all,

new to the game, no license held for any firearm currently, my old man has held high a powered rifle for deer stalking license for 20 years or more plus a shotgun. I want to get into the sport in target and hunting.

However I’m a freedom loving bast€rd so before they are banned (and I’ll forever hate myself for not trying) I want to apply for a SACF license. Money not an issue can ye help give me a path to victory before it’s too late. Info on importing a SACF from Northern Ireland to republic would be appreciated too as ive my eye on a HKMR223

New to the game but not green. Understand that it’s a restricted firearm etc. But I’ve a solid need in using it for “duality purposes” in both my gun club I’ve just joined for competition and also as easier follow up shots for vermin on hunting lands. Opinions?

BattleCorp1

There's currently no ban on semi-auto centrefire rifles so you are free to apply. I've a semi-auto licensed for duality purposes so there's no bar to that. You'll need range membership and land permissions. You also have to show more than a 'solid need' when it comes to restricted firearms. You'll have to convince a Chief Super that you need a semi-auto firearm and that an unrestricted firearm can't do the same job. Easy to demonstrate that to a Chief Super when it comes to target shooting (semi-auto centrefire competitions can only be shot using a semi-auto centrefire firearm). Not so easy to demonstrate need for a semi-auto for hunting/vermin control, but it can be done so don't let me put you off there.

Now, just to throw in the warning. The Gardai want them gone. The Public want them gone. The Government want them gone. They've said they are going to revoke all licences issued since 18th September 2015 so even if you are granted a licence, it could be revoked. Who knows what will happen. They could be revoked, grandfathered or nothing might happen. I'd expect court cases if they are revoked so there's a lot still up in the air. But if you want one bad enough, and can afford to lose it, then go for it.

I'm open to correction but I don't think you can get a licence for a semi-auto centrefire in the North so I don't know if they are available in the North. Unless a gun dealer has them in stock solely for export. I could be totally wrong on that point though.

freddieot

You cannot licence a semi-auto centrefire in NI. I doubt there are any in stock anywhere as they would not have a market anywhere else in the UK for them or here. Never know though.

dalalada

Thank you sir, Some solid points there. I will soon be a member of a large range and land permissions are no issue at all. “The semi auto would spare me having to buy two firearms, and two licenses, one for hunting and one for Irish (bullseye 360 - a timed event so reduced recoil and no movement needed from me so better targeting and sight picture and much safer for me to use) and American CMP competitions shooting (not sure if travelling to states will happen but it shows I’m deadly serious about SA competitions) - as this semi is a dual purpose firearm”.

I was including the hunting aspect as the way I see it if this goes to court it’s better we all demonstrate multiple uses for our SA. I might also include investment purposes to tie up compensation claims if it goes to court. Not sure if that would apply to a HKMR223 but maybe to a M1 carbine. (Any one wanting to say if my thinking is wrong on including hunting and investment please correct me)

On land permissions is there a type of land or animal better suited (in the chiefs eyes) for hunting for a SACF than others? I’ve many farmer friends in low lands, high lands etc that would happily oblige me for my license.

I am willing to gamble on it as I’d never forgive myself in future years for not at least trying to own one but also for fighting for gun rights of all of us. All our freedoms are eroded once they start taking guns from us.

you’re correct its a dealer in the north not a citizen so any info on importing from the north to republic and any thing the chief might ask in relation to that would be appreciated.

otmmyboy2

So on the NI/sourcing part.

The only way you will get a dealer to get one in for you in the UK overall, including NI, is if they are a section 5 dealer.

Not many are but they do exist, however a more cost effective approach, and likely quicker to get a serial number, would be to buy from Germany.

Triebel.de, egun.de, https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt/langwaffen~selbstladebuechsen/, etc would be good bets.

I am actually in the process of getting a SACF rifle also, from a very nice company in Germany that makes their own. I cannot comment on the quality of the rifle yet but if you want the name shoot me a PM. I can say they have been an absolute pleasure to deal with thus far and their English is impeccable.

On the reason part.

What you have outlined with regards to target shooting and hunting in your last post I would deem to be sufficient.

You may face the hurdle, not have a previous firearms licence of any kind, of competency. I could see a chief super using that as the reason to reject the application, secondary only to the "no good and sufficient reason" one.

Also be aware that on the continent there are many courses & competitions run which require SACF rifles, either PPCs in pistol calibers or intermediate cartridges(223 and up really) and larger calibers too(308/7.62 NATO AR10s being relatively common). You may have a look at such courses and wish to get suitable firearm(s) to compete/participate in these courses/comps, which would also be a good reason.

Book yourself in for a competency course done by the NARGC, or get yourself to a range and explain that you need to fulfill the competency requirement and most will be happy to run you through safe firearms handling, usage, loading, unloading, etc for a small fee. Particularly if you are also shopping around for a range to join.

It'll also give you the chance to try some firearms out for size, which is never a bad thing.

On the investment front.

So the MR223, unless you got a particularly unusual variant or prototype, would be unlikely to be classed as an investment exactly. Any historical firearm(m1 carbine, Garand, SKS, certain AK platform rifles, certain AR rifles(like early models or even Brownells soon to be discontinued historical lines) would certainly qualify though, so if you wanted to go for a firearm for investment one of those might be more up your alley, while still being SACF.

If you are set on a 223 and SACF but want something with a bit of investment maybe have a gander at Ruger Mini 14s, since they are rather iconic firearms used in a lot of action movies and series(the A-Team for one), but still relatively inexpensive, as far as SACFs go.

Any further questions post them up, and also have a peruse of these threads for some more general SACF info:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058209472/obtaining-a-license-for-a-223-s-a

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058080495/how-to-get-a-licence-for-a-restricted-rifle

Grizzly 45

Taking multiple points from multiple posts in no particular order.

I was including the hunting aspect as the way I see it if this goes to court it’s better we all demonstrate multiple uses for our SA. I might also include investment purposes to tie up compensation claims if it goes to court. Not sure if that would apply to a HKMR223 but maybe to a M1 carbine. (Any one wanting to say if my thinking is wrong on including hunting and investment please correct me)

Yes, dual usage is good.I have done that for my 308 and Mini 14 and has been Dist Court accepted. HK...Meh.Their aftersales service to the civilian market SUCKS!For their overpriced non-compatible with anyone else's lowers and uppers. Buy their system and you are stuck with them forever. If you want to spend big money and have a MUCH better and compatible with anyone system check out SIG, either their AR system in 223 or 308 or their SIG 550 system in 308 or 223...That's if money is truly no object the 308 SIG starts bare bones around 5 k.[There is your investment] If you want HK and want something less alarming looking.I'd suggest having a look at their SL7 reservist rifle. [Looks kind of like a love child of a Mauser K98 and a HK G3 action. ]Have able under 1.5k,they are excellent guns that can take 10 or 20 shot HK mags.Or talk to Schwaben arms GMBH, they are HK specialists, and can literally build you a new HK style rifle in any configuration you want.

The M1 carbines...As an investment...Want to know your M1 carbine history. What makes are the most valuable and rare[Union switch] and conditions etc. Unless it has some documented history or past[IE ex RUC or former issue to a German post-war police dept etc]its hard to know what you are buying in investment. Some old beater could be given some story that it was someone's grandfather's personal rifle used in "Frozen Chosin" to shoot x hundred Chinese or "Krauts in Bastogne in Dec 44"...Paperwork or it never happened! in those cases.

Plus if this does come to pass of rescinding any licenses. The Govt's stance is on NO COMPENSATION, and they will try and back this up under the EU legislation on this that the E blockers took to the EUCHR in 2019 and were shot down. So investment arguments are going to be kind of moot as it with the current position.

So on that level. you might want to consider convertibility as a feature. Can you convert this to a .22 easily,a straight pull, lever action or pump action or even avoid this all by getting a Manually Actuated Lever Release[MARS] system?

I'm open to correction but I don't think you can get a licence for a semi-auto centrefire in the North so I don't know if they are available in the North.

100% Correct.

On land permissions is there a type of land or animal better suited (in the chiefs eyes) for hunting for a SACF than others? I’ve many farmer friends in low lands, high lands etc that would happily oblige me for my license.

Not really, maybe if you have a herd of feral goats/sheep that need culling once in a while.Which I have too on one of my lets.Which was one of my good reasons back in the initial applications in the oughties.

If you are set on a 223 and SACF but want something with a bit of investment maybe have a gander at Ruger Mini 14s, since they are rather iconic firearms used in a lot of action movies and series(the A-Team for one), but still relatively inexpensive, as far as SACFs go.

^THIS^ They really are a fun little rifle that you can "Barbiefy"[a different outfit every day] with all sorts of stocks, grips etc. Downside...Don't expect sub MOA groups out of them. They were built in an age when hits on a 12 in plate at 150 yards was considered super accurate and AR15s were a rich man's gun in the 1970s and 80s. The newer models are better and have corrected a lot of the original pencil barrel faults in harmonics. You can get an accu strut to tighten up groups, but it is a relative cure to each individual rifle. On investments, there are a few ex RUC mini14s floating about in Germany.A few apparently made it to Frankonia,and they Then "dehorned" them under the then German weapons law in the 1980sSnagging one of those might be worth it,as you can claim it is a piece of Irish history and relevant historically.

American CMP competitions shooting (not sure if travelling to states will happen but it shows I’m deadly serious about SA competitions) - as this semi is a dual purpose firearm”.

You are stuck then with either a Springfield M14 type rifle,[Expensive and horrible and once you have shot a Beretta BM59 which corrects ALL the M14 faults, you'd never want that POS M14 ] Or an AR15 service match rifle config, a Garand or M1 carbine. That's your choice if you are thinking of heading to Camp Perry for the CMP.

I am willing to gamble on it as I’d never forgive myself in future years for not at least trying to own one but also for fighting for gun rights of all of us. All our freedoms are eroded once they start taking guns from us.

My 2 cents fellah... FWIW if you have money to burn. Why not support with your cash groups here that are prepping for this fight?FUNI and NASRPC always need funds for legal challenges and helping out with funds to finance their legal teams might just be able to challenge this legislation? Buy a cheaper SA rifle, and a better barrister would be what I'd consider better tactics at the moment. If you can beat the law, you can always upgrade later. But if the law stands, you cant do either.

dalalada

A lot to unpack there but on “need to fulfill the competency requirement” is this done as part of my application on a fca1 anyway? Or are you suggesting something else?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118319808#Comment_118319808

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321002#Comment_118321002

AFAIK you cannot, legally, outside of a shooting range borrow and shoot a firearm that you do not hold a licence for in Ireland.

Of course it is done, in typical Irish fashion, the law is stupid so ignore it and hope for the best & some discretion from the PTB if you are caught, but might not be a good plan to use that as your proof of competence. Likely every one here has had a pot shot while growing up if their parents owned firearms, and certainly most rural dwellers would have grown up with them.

You could certainly mention that you have experience with firearms courtesy of your dad, but probably best not to mention shooting it outside a range because of the aforementioned.

And for competency, since this is a first time application you need to demonstrate competency with firearms(it's a part of the FCA1, can't recall the section), in order that the PTB can be assured that you can handle a firearm safely. This can take as many forms as you can imagine, from accredited courses to informal instruction, to experience in the military/police, to letters attesting to your competence from licenced shooters, etc.

The standard which, sometimes, is asked for is the NARGC safety course, but if you can make the case that you gained your competency elsewhere and that is sufficient for the, in the case of a restricted, chief super, then you are golden. Basically it is up to them whether you satisfy that particular requirement, so could insist on you attending said course, period of instruction, etc.

Another thing which has occurred to me, safe storage for the firearm.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/307/made/en/print - So for a single restricted at minimum you will need a gun safe secured to a solid structure, but again the CS can insist on a higher level of security, since the SI there only sets out the minimum standards for the detailed firearms.

Also ammunition must be stored separately from the firearms it can be used in, in a locked container.