Turning Left in a left turn lane

blackwhite · 16-12-2021 02:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330664#Comment_118330664

No it isn't, and one can think you're being deliberately misleading at this stage as well given you very deliberately quote Part 2, but leave out Part 1.

23.—(1) Whenever a driver intends to slow down, stop or alter course, he shall either give a hand signal in accordance with the following Table or give a signal by using a direction indicator or stop lamp :

SIGNALS TO OTHER ROAD USERS.

Intended course of action

Signal to be given

I am going to slow down or stop.

Extend the right arm and hand fully with the palm turned downwards, and move the arm slowly upwards and downwards.

I am going to turn to the left.

In the case of a vehicle other than a cycle or animal-drawn vehicle, extend the right arm and hand to the right, and rotate them in an anticlockwise direction.

In the case of a cycle or animal-drawn vehicle, extend the left arm and hand fully to the left with the palm to the front, and hold them rigid in a horizontal position straight out from the left side.

I am going to turn to the right.

Extend the right arm and hand fully to the right with the palm to the front, and hold them rigid in a horizontal position straight out from the right side.

So shocking to see a taxi driver arguing to the death, and lying about it, to try and justify not using their indicators 🙄

magicbastarder · 16-12-2021 02:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330664#Comment_118330664

i was answering the question 'where is the reference to using an indicator'. you've quoted subsection 2, this is subsection 1:

(1) Whenever a driver intends to slow down, stop or alter course, he shall either give a hand signal in accordance with the following Table or give a signal by using a direction indicator or stop lamp :

HeidiHeidi · 16-12-2021 02:09PM

If you're going to make it so that cyclists are on the left of potentially left- turning cars, you need to make it an entirely separate lane, not this half-assed effort.

The only place I've seen it is at the junction from the Rock Road onto Monkstown Road (not sure I've got those names right, I'll see if I can get a Google maps link), where bikes have their own independent set of traffic lights that prevents vehicles crossing them

ETA I meant Temple Hill i think

6 R113

https://maps.app.goo.gl/iSsLEP7DPJVuog9R9

the_pen_turner · 16-12-2021 02:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330492#Comment_118330492

Sorry supposed to say following the road straight v following it around to the left.

They dont need advance warning. Its bloody obvious where your going. You following the road. That junction screws that up by crossing a cycle lane across the left turning lane

Spook_ie · 16-12-2021 02:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330717#Comment_118330717

The question and reply were in relation to how to signal going straight, please ensure you understand the reply before asserting that I'm lying

Spook_ie · 16-12-2021 02:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330718#Comment_118330718

Please in future clarify which section of a post you are replying to, then I might respond by replying to the correct intention of your post.

I see we are now at the usual risk of this turning into a bashing exercise rather than a discussion about the salient points of the law

16-12-2021 02:16PM

If I was sat at traffic lights in a left turn or a right turn only lane I would not be sitting there with the indicator on

HeidiHeidi · 16-12-2021 02:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330722#Comment_118330722

At the junction that started this thread, it isn't bloody obvious where cars are going to go, unless they indicate. There are two lanes to continue on into if you go straight, or you can go left.

The only indicator of an left turn,apart from the driver indicating, is one arrow painted on the road a distance from the junction, that is covered by cars most of the time.

magicbastarder · 16-12-2021 02:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330768#Comment_118330768

why not?

16-12-2021 02:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330799#Comment_118330799

Would rather not sit there with the ticking sound. Quite loud in my car. And there no point. As it’s a left turn only or right turn only lane

magicbastarder · 16-12-2021 02:38PM

you are joking, right?

16-12-2021 02:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330898#Comment_118330898

Nope

TheChizler · 16-12-2021 02:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330610#Comment_118330610

Some of the junctions in Cork with new cycle lanes have this, its a bit frustrating as the cycle time is lengthened but ultimately a lot safer.

Of course changing the layout would be safer again.

Seth Brundle · 16-12-2021 02:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330696#Comment_118330696

oops, I misread your line about cyclists getting a red to allow for left turning traffic:

They need to add a third for cyclists, which can be green for straight on when the car light is red for turn left, and Green for turn left in sync with the car light.

So you are proposing that cyclists should have to wait while cars turn left. What would cars in the right hand lane be doing at this time - travelling straight ahead? So effectively you are de-prioritising people who are on bikes at this junction as they will have a shorter traffic light window to cross the dual carriageway. Why? Because many people in cars aren't observing their surroundings properly and aren't signalling.

How does that fit in with DMURS? What about international best practice? How will it work in reality?

Seth Brundle · 16-12-2021 02:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330893#Comment_118330893

Out of curiosity, do you have a radio or music player in use when driving?

16-12-2021 02:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330956#Comment_118330956

Sometimes. Not sure of the relevance

UID0 · 16-12-2021 03:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330334#Comment_118330334

I agree with you completely. As I said, I think the motorist should indicate, but I don't know if the law says they must. In general, I think that you should indicate anytime where indicating doesn't create confusion.

The legal minimum requirements are a minimum, not a target. No situation will be made more dangerous by people around you knowing what you intend to do.

Allinall · 16-12-2021 03:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330947#Comment_118330947

You've arrived at your own conclusions, so I'll leave you to it.

UID0 · 16-12-2021 03:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330602#Comment_118330602

If there is an advance stop box, then the situation is different. There is a place for a cyclist to go that doesn't end up with them sitting to my left. The road positioning I use is so that I don't end up with a cyclist inside me when I'm turning left.

I spend more time cycling than driving, especially in the city, and the number of times I have seen cyclists cycle up the inside of a bus that is pulling into a bus stop on the quays is ridiculous. While the majority of cyclists are able to avoid placing themselves in harms way, there is a minority that don't seem to pay attention to what is happening around them. Unfortunately, in order to avoid a collision there are times when the car has to be put in a place that inconveniences cyclists who are paying attention.

Looking at it from the cyclists point of view, I like when I can predict what a car is about to do. If they are in the left of the lane with their indicator on, I know that they are turning left. If they're far out and have their indicator on, I don't know if they are actually turning left, or if they've accidentally turned the indicator on and can't hear it over whatever music they have blaring.

What is really needed is properly designed infrastructure which provides a safe and efficient path for cyclists and which minimises the potential for conflict with vehicles. Unfortunately, despite many occasions where our elected officials have said they are going to invest more in cycling infrastructure, it ends up with something that isn't suitable for purpose, and which in some instances, the junction at the start of this thread being an example, increases the danger for cyclists. Our elected officials need to realise that paint is not infrastructure, and when planning improvements that they need to look at all possible paths traffic will take through the junction.

I think that we should also change the rules so that cyclists can turn left on a red light or have a separate set of lights that turn green for cyclists before they turn green for motorised traffic. They have some of these lights already installed on the quays. This is to get cyclists out of the danger area when the lights go green. If you allow cyclists to turn left on red, then it also means that motorists know if the cyclist is sitting there, they are going straight. It reduces the uncertainty on where traffic is intending to move when the lights go green.

magicbastarder · 16-12-2021 03:36PM

I think Paris introduced the Idaho stop/turn right on red for cyclists a few years ago.

the_pen_turner · 16-12-2021 03:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330791#Comment_118330791

I agree that junction is a disaster . Way better signage needed.

Just because there is 2 lanes in front doesn't mean anything.

HeidiHeidi · 16-12-2021 03:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331417#Comment_118331417

If you haven't/can't see the left arrow on the road, it's a logical assumption that traffic in both lanes might go straight on if there are two equivalent lanes ahead, or turn left from the left-hand lane.

km991148 · 16-12-2021 04:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330893#Comment_118330893

Maybe it's better you don't drive then? If you find it difficult to interact with others, since that is what you are doing sitting in traffic.

There are lots of examples where the indicator is useful in a queue of traffic, I doubt you (or anyone) is able to monitor all the scenarios for change.

It's kinda crazy that there are a significant amount of people who are are arguing against not indicating. A chance to communicate while you perform complex operations that can severely cause harm when done incorrectly.

No wonder the state of Irish road use is as it is.

AndrewJRenko · 16-12-2021 04:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330893#Comment_118330893

I find the "headlights on" lamp on my dash to be awfully glaring so I'm going to drive around with no headlights for these winter evenings. Sure you can all see me anyhoo.