26 county forum

downcow

I came unto this forum with sound intentions through the farming section. I am a unionist from the north and soon found myself sucked into defending my community in the face of surprising levels of misunderstanding and prejudice.

occasionally I have posted inappropriate responses as I learn the culture and rules of the forum.

I have a thick skin and have taken the onslaught of abuse against me by a small minority of republicans on the site with a pinch of salt.

I am though surprised by some of the discipline directed my way by moderators when I give back as good as I take.

I was surprised some time ago to get a thread, that was just getting going and active, closed down and told it had run its course. It was a thread discussing sectarianism in the GAA.

anyhow, I ignored that and set up a thread on the Irish protocol. I bit my tongue often at the very very nasty stuff said again and again by a small number of posters about my community and my elected representatives.

it came to a head recently when a number of my ministers were referred to as ‘utter bastards’. I reported it, as advised, but no discipline handed out. I was frustrated and responded by saying that some NI ministers were murdering bastards. I didn’t name any even though the other poster had specifically named a number of my ministers who he had referred to as utter bastards.

I got an immediate thread ban.

I challenged it and got the response I have had before from moderators on the board ie this is a ‘Roi’ forum and while others are allowed on the site it will prominently represent republican views. As I say this is not a one-off.

i wonder do you all know this or is it just me who thought all views would be equally valid on the forum.

I have no problem will republicans getting preferential treatment - provided that is clear and up front. So maybe a bit of clarity on this would be helpful.

downcow

….and it would be remiss of me not to say that the vast majority of posters have treated me with respect and indeed several have private messaged me to say they disagree with my views but they are embarrassed with the treatment I have received from some of their countryfolk. Much appreciated

Spear

This has sat for too long without an answer.

Can @Boards.ie: Niamh or maybe @Beasty respond?

Beasty

I issued the threadban here. It was following the OP posting:

". I thought better of it. I am not going to refer to senior ni politicians as sectarian murdering bastards."

This was not the first time the OP had come to our attention in this particular thread. Since the platform changeover they had been warned for attacking the poster on 3 occasions, for backseat modding once, for a spat with another poster once, for insulting the Irish language and on 14 November you made a post responding to another poster "I realise it's an inferiority complex that is fuelling the aggression" when I told you that you were perilously close to a threadban

Then on 26 November you were warned after you brought the tragic loss of live of refugees in the English Channel into the discussion claiming people were "taking their lives into their own hands too escape the EU to get to the UK" - what a sickening comment, but you were given one more chance and blew it when you made the post I refer to above

In a separate PM conversation I stated this website is based in the ROI and is reflective of views there. We allow posters from anywhere on the planet, but you need to understand posters on this site will predominantly represent republican views

In light of all the above, do you really think you warrant a further chance in that particular thread?

So yes, Boris Johnson was referred to as an "utter bastard". Worse has been said of Irish Taoiseachs on this site. And also as I pointed out I am English and know of plenty of others in the UK who would refer to Mr Johnson in such a fashion

This is not a matter of anyone getting any preferential treatment. The OP has been given more than enough rope and still proved incapable of posting in line with what is expected on this site

Firblog

Don't know where Beasty gets the idea that "posters on this site will predominantly represent republican views". Care to link to any evidence that is so? Was there some scientific survey / opinion poll carried out?

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388154#Comment_118388154

This is the "Republic" of Ireland. I am not referring to the situation in NI, but contrasting the different democracies in place in the ROI compared to the UK

Beasty

I've deleted a number of posts as this is essentially a dispute by a user who has the opportunity to respond to the comments I have made

I have left the post by Firblog up as I think it necessary for me to clarify the point I was making (which may have come across clumsily originally, which I put down to my "Englishness")

downcow

Just seeing all this now. Actually it was drawn to my attention by being pm’d by someone who feels fairly diametrically opposed to my viewpoints but feels I am being unfairly treated. I had several similar PMs after my banning

let me start with Beasty. I have found him to be reasonable in moderating the thread and I very much respect the time he has taken to respond privately to me to explain decisions. Most of which I have accepted if not always entirely agreeing. A good guy doing a difficult job, no doubt.

I completely and absolutely disagree with him on my banning. I am goaded on this thread continually. My community is laughed at and scoffed, told we are stupid, bigoted, etc. I have on occasion responded in haste and been rightly censored.

the banning though…

a post was directed at me, referring to several of my ministers ‘BY NAME’ as ‘utter bastards’. I reported it and the poster did not even get a slap on the wrists.

I responded as beasty says but as I typed it I actually named MLAs, but then thought better of it and removed their names before posting. My reference to ‘sectarian murdering bastards’ was not attributed to any individual. I felt that made it safe, as the other poster had specifically named (if I recall correctly) three of my ministers as utter bastards.

the justification given ie that many in England also think they are utter bastards is ridiculous - I am sure everyone knows that many in England also think that some ni politicians are murdering bastards.

as I have stated many times, I am riddled with prejudice. I wish I wasn’t but it’s how we are made. I believe it is not healthy to support the anti-unionist prejudice of some on this site by simply banning those who challenge it.

when I entered the politics threads here, I received PMs, out of the blue, from several members advising me that I wouldn’t last long as some posters would work hard to have me banned as there is no room for my views on here.

my experience has generally been good. I have learnt loads from the interactions, even from the notorious republicans who goad me. I am relaxed about the banning and don’t need it removed. I’ll move on to other topics and try and be a little smarter at avoiding the reaction now that I know there is a different measure for northerners as opposed to southerners

great forum. Keep up the good work.

ps I didn’t get reading the deleted posts - is this normal to delete posts? If people aren’t allowed to publicly post whatever it was that they said, then I’d be keen to be PM’d

downcow

Just reading your post again beasty and I appreciate you acknowledging that your ‘Englishness’ may have played a part. I thought this from the get go but didn’t want to raise it as I thought it inappropriate.

I think this may be a classic case of you, outside of your awareness, feeling the need to be more protective of the ‘Irish’ because of your Englishness - I don’t feel the same need

I don’t believe there to be the slightest malice in your decision. It just doesn’t bear examination with regard to being just.

downcow

…..and sorry. One other point. One problem I have with what you have posted above Beasty is that you list a catalogue of apparent nasty posts from me. They are given no context nor do you express any view on the numerous vile nasty attacks on me and my community on the thread

downcow

Just while I am at it, I’d like to comment on the reference I made to migrants travelling from Eu to Uk. I accepted I should not have raised it. Here is a post I put on following it

“folks. Apologies to everyone. On reflection I should have steered well clear of the migrant disaster” - There were no buts, no equivocation, etc.

I have though had to read of posters making false accusations about neighbours of mine who were murdered to justify their killing, they just keep arguing lies. Doesn’t seem to be a problem. This I find difficult to understand.

Posters have also made very serious allegations against about notorious members of my community who have died eg Willie Frazer, but dare I even imply similar about Notorious Sinn Fein members like Martin Mcguinness, even without naming them. I just simply don’t get it? I do get what you say about posters in roi being more acceptable on the forum, but I would suggest, if this is the case, it’s got nothing to do with the 26 counties, but rather it’s nationalism:unionism preference

downcow

Maybe I am more agitated by this than I thought. As I read your post again you say I was disrespectful to the Irish language. Maybe you could clarify how I done this? Seems you may have it in some special place as well, in that we can’t question some aspects of how it is used - this on a forum where my culture gets referred to with terms like KKK, facist, bigoted, etc.

downcow

It may be worth consideration and relevant to this discussion to note what is happening on a thread I begun the other day. Lots of good discussion and insight, but the usual suspects have tracked me down and are agitating and working towards another ban for me. They are also again suggesting 6 county viewpoints are less relevant - having taken it there themselves. Here is a post from this morning

I don't want you banned, downcow. I want you to have your own forum where every thread can be you vs. everyone else. You're good at what you do, but you completely take over every thread you get into.

In the thread you just screenshotted that from, the previous five posts were from you. Because of my timezone, I frequently wake up the same thing. You lay the battle lines with a bunch of posts before you sleep and then wake up to them the next day.

There is no reason for you to be in there posting message after message about sectarianism and Protestants. That thread is now the place on boards.ie to discuss the Irish language and its use in the EU, a topic of interest to many regular people, and instead of it being reflective of Ireland and Irish posters, it is simply downcow's place to fight about Northern Ireland. That's my problem with you. The Irish Protocol became impossible to discuss until your ban from that thread. The Irish language and its use in the EU is impossible to discuss while you think Northern Ireland is somehow the most important aspect of that conversation.

Like look at this. You've simply transported your fight with Francis Brady from the Irish Protocol thread to a new thread.

Exact same points over and over again.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404232#Comment_118404232

you have put your interpretation on the thread and expect everyone to adhere to it. The thread is not about Irish language in the EU, quite the contrary. The catalyst for me putting it up was report that the EU would be spending millions on translation that may never be read. The thread is much more general about the reasons for and interest in Irish. Two other posters took it more specifically to NI, neither of whom live in ni I believe. I have certainly joined in that debate as that is my biggest interest in the topic.

it’s sad that you can’t just engage in the topic without the need to attack me.

I will screenshot example posters who immediately followed your outburst to demonstrate which one of us is out of step

downcow

….and I was not one of the people who thanked those posts. So maybe take a big long look at yourself

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404241#Comment_118404241

That’s not one of my posts. This is quite typical of the misinterpretation that’s goes on by a small few re my posts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409227#Comment_118409227

Misinterpretation my hole.

You started a thread based on a 16-year-old news article, which by being allowed to exist is fake news for anyone on this site, and you call it "Irish language gets full EU status today", and your latest post is "Francie, you raise this agreement continually but you refuse to tell us how it will impact signage.", relating to Northern Ireland, which is not in the EU.

Hot garbage.

Now I've got an admin messaging me to stay on topic in a thread which you started and immediately took off-topic with your incendiary grenade saying Irish and its use are a daily battle and "the legacy of a vicious conflict".

You whinge and I get warned. Don't report too much though, Downcow. Beasty locks everything with too many reports because it's easier.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409681#Comment_118409681

You are continuing to massively misrepresent me in that last post. I don’t have the energy to take each point apart and bat it backwards and forwards (or rather backwards and further backwards). You have a bee in your bonnet about my participation- very evident in the fact you are not interested in challenging the people who take the threads of topic, but rather lie in wait for my reaction.

downcow

So it continues….

I have started a thread that is very active and I am again disciplined. My community has taken a torrent of abuse on the thread and I have been very careful to just report and not descend to the level of the half dozen anti-unionists posters who have followed me again to agitate and try to have me disciplined.

i will post a pic of the post for which I was disciplined, and also a small sample of what has been directed at my community on the lead up to my post. I am interested in whether you think I am being unreasonable to feel extremely unfairly treated.

tbh I am on the verge of leaving the forum as it feels to me that there is no space for unionist opinions, if they challenge republican narratives. I have been very encouraged by the many messages from decent posters in the south including many republicans, but I am honestly fed up watching every word i say, knowing that there are a dozen republicans waiting to twist my words and report me. Just to assure everyone that I do talk positively in my community about my interactions on here and refer often to the open minded fair approach of most. I often post snipits of the most uplifting conversations I have here, on a loyalist/unionist group I belong to. I never post the nasty attacks on my community as it would just feed peoples stereotypes.

anyhow here is the post that I got hit for and some of the stuff I was reacting to .

For context I should point out that an ongoing trend is the few nasty posters continually telling me I am Irish and not British because I live on an island called Ireland.

Not my best post ever, but here is a tiny example of what led up to it- and remember I got disciplined on the last thread for being disrespectful to Irish by misspelling words.

“if Irish language offends you so, go to England.”

”Ulster Scots has the same linguistic authenticity as the language used by young lads that go around in little gangs calling everyone "fam" “

”The fact of the matter is Northern Ireland is a part of the island who’s proper language is Irish……if that’s a problem for anyone my advice would be to relocate to mainland UK.”

”Ha...Unionist arrogance and supremacy again.”

”You and your community see Irish as the language of the IRA, whereas Irish people see it as part of Irish culture. As long as those positions remain, your comments are worthless.”

”...you lied again.”

”it was also your 'original interest' to tell the lie that dual signage…”

“…downcow = another lie.”

“Ulster Scots" looks a bit gas...”

“Why do they insist on a made up language as opposed to Scots Gaelic?”

downcow

Does anyone know if there is a way I can escalate this issue to get an explanation for the apparent continual unequal treatment?

downcow, may I ask and I want you to take this without offence..

at what point do you suspect you might realise that the common thread in all your complaints is you?

i doubt you’re the only NI person on boards, but you’re the only one complaining about how mistreated you are?

like even there you used some lines taken from my posts, framed them as if they were a personal attack against you, when you know & I know that’s not true.

Similarly what you’ve outlined are examples of people disagreeing with you and in some cases pointing you how this is a common trend of yours?

I’m not an admin so it’s not really my business, but honestly how can you not see how you’re sort of doing this to yourself?

i said you have a terrible victim complex and this cements that further for me.

all the same, if you disagree with mod/cmod actions you can use The Dispute Resolution forum. If it was an admin sanction though I think that’s not where it goes, but I might be wrong on that, admin say is final, but iirc through TDR forum you can request another admin to review but they will be the final say.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422577#Comment_118422577

Thanks the info in your post is helpful.

with your comment that I am the only one seeing unfair treatment for unionists, I wish I could share my inbox with you.

FrancieBrady

Here's an example of a deeply sinister and appalling (IMO) post of yours downcow. You may need to reconsider why it is you are reacted to in the way you are but you will have to take off the victimhood spectacles first.

Downcow wrote:

Again I am not exactly sure what you are saying. My road is about 90% nationalist, but few of the nationalists would be extreme.

o would love to name my road and tell you the story about signage but I have been PM’d and advised that I have already disclosed far too much about my identity with a certain poster on the thread.

I am generally trusting and don’t want to believe it but hey

For the record: I don't often report posts, but I did report this one. I also asked that it be removed or that you name the 'certain poster' you were implicating and that I was not seeking a ban.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118432217#Comment_118432217

How about I ask moderators to comment if it is ok for me to ask the poster it refers by pm for permission to post the actual pm I received with the sender redacted. I think permission would be forthcoming from the poster that it was directed at.

I simply stated the truth as reason I did not feel able to name the road I was talking about.

if you think it is a huge issue I will delete it myself.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118432300#Comment_118432300

That you don't think it a big enough issue to begin with is the problem here downcow. Any remedial efforts by you are hollow. Maybe if you had done what you now think is right to begin with?

You insinuated that a member of this forum was a physical threat to you on god know's what evidence. You knew what you were doing.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118432335#Comment_118432335

You are at your usually francie. You are twisting what was said and bigging it up

I'm going to add 2 observations here, usually when I try to be even handed I get flamed, but here goes anyway.

1/ downcow sometimes you really don't help yourself. The thread about EU / Irish was only ever going to go one way. I honestly think that you either wanted a language row, or else you were so influenced by the current Irish sign decision on your own street that you couldn't see the wood for the trees. You are very unionist, that comes across to me quite plainly and no doubt to others. However I would like to think there is room for that very different opinion on boards. But like it or not you are on an Irish (as in based in Ireland) forum and maybe should remember that sometimes before posting ? Some of your posts I read as being deliberately antagonistic. They may or may not have been intended that way, but thats how they come across.

2/ I am not a unionist in the strictest sense of the word (in that I actively want a UI), but I was brought up a (moderate) unionist. I see things differently to a lot on boards because I have that very different background. Some of the comments directed at downcow in particular and unionists in general make me wince (and no I'm not naming names or pasting posts). I think that if they were directed at any other community they would be termed racist. I think the very act of saying "unionists are <insert bad thing here>" is an indication that there is a trend on here to see unionists as a block of people who are all the same, when in reality unionists are like any other group, there is a wide range of opinions. A broad church is the old term for it. You have Linda Ervine actively promoting Irish and Sammy Wilson actively being obnoxious. And all flavours in between. If there was one thing I'd ask of those who regularly cross swords with downcow, it is to remember that.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118432390#Comment_118432390

Spectacles are still on I see.

Are you saying you were not implying a 'certain poster' represented a threat to you if they knew where you lived?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118432410#Comment_118432410

I mostly make a point of narrowing down the Unionism I am critical of, i.e. 'belligerent Unionism'. I have zero issue with the rights and opinions (I may disagree respectfully with them and argue against them) of moderate Unionism.