Total Cost of Ownership - Diesel to EV.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118377533#Comment_118377533

Yes but the cost of the loan will be more than the 3k saving, therefore your out of pocket from a net perspective.

Murph85

The new mg estate is 29650...

https://www.mg.ie/model/mg5-ev

Flinty997

I still don't know how your going to spend 2-3k every year on servicing and repairs after fuel.

tom1ie

What’s the cost of a 40k loan per month? €700?

So 700x12= €8400 just for servicing the loan on the EV.

ec_pc

yes, but is that 700 euro a month a wise investment on ICE or EV? EV wins hands down in terms of running costs, future desirability / trade in etc. Personally I scratch my head when I see people buying new diesel/petrol or hybrid cars, the ship has sailed......

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118379149#Comment_118379149

Oh yeah agreed.

My point is the monthly repayment must be factored in to the overall cost of running the car.

If you can keep the existing car you are saving €700 per month you would otherwise spend on paying back the loan.

If you need to buy a car, can you do it with cash, eg is there an ICE you can pickup for 10k or a small loan plus 4K etc.

If you decide to buy a new car and your going to be repaying a 40k loan, then you will make savings on EV vs ICE, BUT you have to factor in if the range will change your driving habits. IE if you regularly drive 250- 300km a couple of days a week in the winter. In that case you are depending on the public fast charge (or ionity/Tesla supercharger). The public network especially in the south east is piss poor and not to be depended on IMO.

ec_pc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118379403#Comment_118379403

I suppose if you potentially have a 250-300KM drive a few days week then your starting point for EV must be abov above that in terms of distance. Some of the larger cars with large batteries will cover this (ie Kia Ev6 perhaps). Really it's not practical from a cost / time / lifestyle perspective to have to rely on fast chargers as part of your regular commute pattern is it?

Black_Knight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388010#Comment_118388010

Not with the state of the charging network as it is. Far too easy to wind up having to wait to begin charging. An accountable 15 minute pit stop is one thing, but not knowing whether you'll be waiting 15 minutes or maybe up to an hour is another! ESB certainly isn't rolling out chargers fast enough to adapt to demand.

Cost wise, it would depend on what additional cost it incurs. If you're 40-50km short of your range, it's a pretty cheap top up. Maybe 10kWh at worst. That's €3.70 from a HPC.

handpref

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388139#Comment_118388139

€3.70-

I would pay €50 if I knew that I was guaranteed charger availability. We do 99% of our charging at home- but when you need to charge, you need to charge - with kids on board you can’t be faffing about and I’m not a fan of motorway services.

Currently waiting on a new car that has the biggest battery we could afford at 77kwh- the idea being we can get to almost anywhere in Ireland without stopping and having to wait for an unknown amount of time at a charger or give the option to bypass a broken or busy charger.

It’s unfortunate that the cheaper 58kw model couldn’t be made work, relying on public charging is stressful and something that we shouldn’t have to worry about. e-cars are currently not providing a network that is fit for purpose.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388010#Comment_118388010

Yeah I really wouldn’t like to be depending on a 15min charge at a fast charger due to the state of the network.

Id have to buy a big battery car which would be over 40k, which means repayments on a loan of approx 700pm, with interest rates only going to go one way………

It just wouldn’t compare favourably to keeping my current ICE or going for a second hand ICE for 10-15k cash/small loan.

Grumpypants

The MG starts at €32k and does 440km. That will cover 99% of most peoples trips.

That range is holding true to 400+ too from the user reviews on YouTube. And they are winter tests at the moment. New Battery heaters helps mitigate the lost winter range.

That will get you from Donegal to Kerry or cork 380km with room to spare to find a charger and plug in for the home leg. If you are doing that journey it's usually an over night stay so book a hotel with a charger.

With a 9k deposit on their 2.9% PCP it costs less than €320 a month with a final 12k payment in 3 years that could easily be done with a 3.5 year loan that keeps the payments about the same.

That is very affordable.

MightyMunster

Does a TCO calculation not have to include the original purchase of the existing car...

Obviously keeping an existing car is cheaper for most people than buying a new one. The comparison should be with the alternative replacement car not the existing car

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392747#Comment_118392747

Does PCP limit the amount of kms you can travel?

I’ve always gone for cash and never looked into a PCP so it’s a genuine question.

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118393392#Comment_118393392

Some can, but it is more that it will impact the guaranteed final value rather than you can't do more.

PCP is broken into 3 bits. Deposit, monthly payments, then a final FMV payment. This is what you pay to own it, but it can also be used as the deposit for another new one.

The dealer basically says if you bring the car back in 3 years, under X mileage, and in general good nick. I will guarantee you get Y amount. So if it is over the X mileage they might offer you a bit less. Of course the market could mean you get much than their offer too.

Pivot Eoin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118373040#Comment_118373040

Interesting comparison.

1- So firstly, an IONIQ 5 would be quite a lot bigger than the Octavia in terms of interior space (you may or may not need this size).

2 - Ioniq 5 will hold its value better for resale.

3. - maybe subjective but I assume most people would agree that Ioniq 5 is a far nicer car than any Octavia (l like Octavia's a lot)

4 - is this factoring in upkeep, which is basically non existent with an EV?

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398817#Comment_118398817

It was. It wasn't accurate to the 2nd decimal place but as a first order analysis it definitely served a purpose.

1 and 3 largely subjective and weren't reflected in the numbers. The size difference would have been minimised cos we were looking at octavia Estate.

4. I factored in tax, insurance, guesstimate at long term servicing cost Inc. Wear and tear items, fuel.

The EV column had more unknowns (e.g depreciation curves to 8 years), and I was actually conservative against the EV when coming up with values. I actually think it won't take as long as 7 or 8 years for the Ioniq 5 to start coming out on top.

Also, we do fairly low mileage (15k km per annum) which again disadvantaged the EV a bit. I think EV annual savings were about €1.2k but more miles would increase that number quite quickly.

I’ve a 14 year old car- gives me 30mpg- no car loan - so running costs are high relative to an EV but I’ve essentially no depreciation at this stage to speak of, car is in good nic and lovely to drive- I’ll get an EV but I intend saving over next 2 years- hopefully 2024- more choice, probably better batteries, longer range etc etc

I guess it’s down to needs vs wants- an 11 year old Passat should keep you nicely on the road for another few years- unless you’re getting an excellent trade in price I’d keep going with the Passat and put money aside for that eventual EV purchase in a few years time.

Yes your running costs are high compared to an EV- but look at annual spend on “car” first and then compare -cost of credit etc

embraer170

One factor I haven't seen mentioned here (or maybe I missed) is the life expectancy of the battery, especially in a relatively high mileage situation of 40,000+km/year. After 4-5 years of that, one is quite likely to end up with a battery with 70-75% of the original capacity with a rather big impact on the useful range (and also potential car residual value).

I have a 12 year old BMW 3 series with almost 300,000km on the clock. Except for some cosmetic wear & tear issues, it drives like a new car and will do a 1100km on a tank of dirty diesel. I know I'll have to replace the 3 series with an EV, but battery life expectancy after a few years (as someone who keeps a car long term) is one of the issues that seriously worries me.

Got a VW E-Up as a second car in March last year. I absolutely love it but after 10,000km done (car was bought new), there has already been a noticeable decrease in battery performance despite taking the usual precautions (charging between 20-80%, not leaving the car fully charged or with too low battery, etc)

silver2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371554#Comment_118371554

And US gallon is much smaller than EU. 3.8 v 4.54

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118378713#Comment_118378713

Replacing your current car with a new or newer car is a bullet we’ll all have to bite at some point. With second hand cars scarce right now, a 11 year old Passat diesel might well be a good car to achieve a good trade in price - maybe now is the time to bite the bullet and move on

gaming_needs90

It seems this thread has exploded! Thanks for all the comments. One point of confusion is that it's a 400km journey once a week, 200km each way. A lot of calculations are presuming double that. So around 20,000 km per year. I think I will do the numbers up here and see if I can come to a realistic figure of how much extra the EV would be per year.

embraer170

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118402254#Comment_118402254

The assumption by some may be that that you would do driving in addition to the weekly 400km return?

Something to consider for any EV you buy: it may have a suitable 20-80% range (or 10-90% if you want to push it) the day you buy it, but will it have the same 4-5 years later with 100,000km on the clock.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058224075/total-cost-of-ownership-diesel-to-ev

The depreciation is difficult to factor in. As you suggest its not an apples to apples comparison.

If you dont buy the EV now, would the plan be to keep the '10 Passat for the foreseeable on this commute or are you thinking of upgrading anyway?

That would make the decision a bit easier as clearly you have a budget in mind and you can somewhat disregard the depreciation then as it will happen for either car. Trying to justify a move to a new EV against an already fully owned ICE is stacking the cards really.

Anyway, the fuel savings you calculated are a good bit off... for your scenario it would be...

400km commute + tootling around --> ~30k km's/yr

Passat 6l/100km

Diesel @ €1.65/ltr --> €2970

EV 21kWh/100km

Night rate electricity @ 7c/kWh --> €441

Fuel Savings/yr --> ~€2529

There are a few other fringe benefits like cheaper tax, possibly insurance and half price tolls. Maybe another €500-1000/yr there depending on your circumstances.