Petition to ban goat hunting.

Grizzly 45

Something got her goat alright!

Yasmin Fortune .Well known for enviromentalism in Wicklow.

One to watch out for.

https://www.change.org/p/department-of-agriculture-food-and-the-marine-ban-the-hunting-of-critically-endangered-old-irish-goats-and-award-them-rare-breed-status

MakersMark

Are feral goats really endangered in Ireland?

blackbox

Do people actually hunt goats?

Uinseann_16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369956#Comment_118369956

Yes they're a feral non native species

BorneTobyWilde

That's a lot of free meat roaming free.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369945#Comment_118369945

Nope!They breed like...well...goats!, and seeing they have crossbred with genuine domestic feral goat breeds, saying the old Irish goat is somehow an unblemished strain is utter rubbish.

slipperyox

I was asked to sign this petition personally. And like a lot of knee jerk reactors, I was about to.

But the sales pitch is flawed, or at least not honest.

To state an animal is "critically Endangered" is quite a statement.

As a pest controller, hunter for consumption, and a Hons degree Biologist, this is a shameful tactic.

However, if they use genetics to prove they are of a 5000 year old pure lineage, and not photos's of skulls carried on the backs of hunters to entice support, I will sign.

Otherwise, great harm is done to ALL biodiversity, when you use an IUCN term such as this unwarranted.

JP22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118375936#Comment_118375936

Nothing new there, the sales pitch is almost always flawed. Mostly it’s a mixture of mumbo-jumbo with some political speak thrown in for good measure. Oh, don’t forget the stats, where would we be without the stats folks, their stats are almost always out of date or wrong – both most of the time. Basically it’s a pile of horse-manure.

There are many environmentalists out there who believe certain species have to be controlled in certain situations but they are never mentioned or quoted by antis. I wonder why?

End of day, these folk are just plain anti’s, pick any subject/hobby you like, there is always someone/some group who is against it. Enough said……….

slipperyox

I would add, pest control fine by me, hunting for food, fine by me.

But trophy hunting a definite no. And the worst thing the hunting community needs from this minority.

Grizzly 45

Trophy hunting has its place... IF it is going back into keeping a breed sustainable and benefitting a local economy and creating some spinoff in employment etc. But in our case here, it's going into someone's bank account.

MakersMark

I was hoping that I'd be able to comment somewhere on the petition as to how impressive the trophy heads were.

patnor1011

If I will have to pay 1k for a pop it would have to be about half a ton specimen. Anything smaller for that price is just expensive barbecue.

slipperyox

If you take a man on the clapham omnibus, most are fine with pest control and hunting for eating. But more will be against trophy hunting.

Something to bear in mind when you entrench on a side for the good of our sport holistically.

And yes grizzly, trophy hunters can contribute more to conservation, but they are still spurned.

elperello

I was initially somewhat suspicious of political links to the petition but after some research (thanks to those who provided links) I don't believe there is any party behind it.

This link is on the petition page and worth a read - https://oldirishgoat.ie/

I will sign and let others make their own minds up.

crackcrack30

Isn't a pure kebab goat... isn't goat the most popular/ eaten meat on earth..

How is it (kid) prepared/ butchered & eaten? mostly mince? .... any good vids?

Grizzly 45

Butcher them out as you would any sheep/lamb. Plenty of recipes on google from all over the world on how to cook them.Everything from Jamacian goat head soup to goat kebabs& tacos. Better off with young goats, as they start getting a "herby" taste past 6 months and an older animal is rather pungent and a well-aquired taste.🤮

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118377442#Comment_118377442

"Clapham man" has about as much knowledge about the countryside and hunting, and the benefit of tourist hunting as I do about the Zodiac signs of those on Love island. He has been fed a diet of anti-gun and hunting for generations of BBC and MSM "country file" and Chris Packham,David Attenborough &Co to belive that there are two lions,3 deer, one blue whale, two foxes and a partridge in a pear tree left in the wild of Europe and Africa.J

So you are going to have an uphill struggle anyway trying to explain this difference to a mind poisoned by generations of the idea that hunting in any shape or form is a class issue reserved for Toffs and Horray Henrys who still can pop off to Africa to bag a few of the big 5 at the drop of a top hat. Indeed they are folks out there who can do it, but they pay handsomely for it and think nothing of dropping 400k plus to hunt the big 5 every year. That's a cash injection of over 5million in some local 3rd world economies like Zimbabwe for example, which pays a lot of wages for the local game wardens.Not to mind providing fresh meat for a whole village to a bunch of people who are suffering malnutrition. Or of course, said same animals could be poached for their trophies by poisoning water holes and wiping out herds for a pittance and a massive profit of unscrupulous ivory and animal parts dealers in China or Saudi.

For the rest of us mere mortals, an African hunting safari is an almost impossible dream or a once in a lifetime experience. So maybe we should point out to those like Clapham man without us or those with the money paying for it. There would be even less wildlife than there is now,and when did they see the antis and the spiky-haired mutant brigade ever put their hands in their pockets to fork out some of their dole money to pay some Zimbabwean game warden less than their months dole in a year's wages, to buy himself a new pair of boots to protect their wildlife they fawn about?

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118377793#Comment_118377793

I’m a traditional kebab is lamb. Abd giat is eaten around the world, but nowhere near the most popular in the world. Beef, pork and lamb are eaten in much larger amounts. And of course chicken.

Feisar

@Grizzly 45 "herby" 🤣, that's one way of putting it.

I presume this is a backlash from the press a few of our "outfitters" have gotten recently.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370519#Comment_118370519

Utter rubbish right however hard to argue when our aforementioned outfitters are using it as marketing shtick.

JPKeogh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118376285#Comment_118376285

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118375936#Comment_118375936

Not against hunting for food but that’s not what this is about, it’s about stopping selling trophy excursions to tourists & if you haven’t taken the time to find out that the goats DNA has been profiled & that it’s been with us 5k years & is distinct from the feral population that arrived in the 1900s then I don’t know what to tell ya. But it is!! And yeh there’s definitely hybrids out there but that doesn’t ignore the fact that the research is done & the untainted breed has been profiled & isolated & therefore requires protection to preserve it. So we don’t have thick idiots hunting them down for photos. It really really doesn’t take long to find out it IS critically endangered. Google it. Look up the rare breed conference & Old Irish Goat

5,000 yrs that’s a heritage issue. That’s the puck goat, the goat of the bodhrán, the one that saw us through the famine ..,the “patriot” whose organisation can’t spell hEireann correctly is actually talking utter shite.

JPKeogh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369945#Comment_118369945

The Old Irish goat has been in Ireland 5,000 year, there were feral goats introduced in the 1900s - The Old Irish Goat is critically endangered the other feral goats are not. The hunters like do their best to confuse

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443980#Comment_118443980

So tell us this? Where exactly is the main national herd of these pureblooded 5000-year-old interbred Irish goats in Ireland?Are they located in one point like the national herd of Red deer in Kerry? Be pretty simple then to say that hunting them in that area is prohibited? Or better still, capture all these old Irish goats out in the wild in the 25 and move them to a goat sanctuary someplace in Irelandideally suited where they can be then kept and properly maintained and culled when needed? And the hybrids can be hunted in the rest of the country? I'm sure UNESCO will throw you a few million quid of global funds for such a project if they are that critically endangered? After all they do this in Africa and the Amazon rainforest almost on a monthly basis?

Done a bit of digging around online. They are in Mulranny Co Mayo:

https://mulranny.ie/mulranny-old-irish-goats/

From the website:

"Sadly there are very few pure Old Irish Goats left in Ireland. Without intervention those that remain in Mulranny will be lost forever due to interbreeding with the British Alpine, Swiss Toggenburg and British Dairy Goats that share Mulranny Hill."

According to their Facebook page they have a breeding programme in Mulanny and some of the goats have been relocated to howth head UNESCO biosphere reserve in Dublin.

Also according to the FB page, these guys are helping out with the funding of this project:

https://m.facebook.com/WSIAClub/?__tn__=%2As-R

Here is an article about someone working on the project:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/18/old-irish-goats-return-to-county-dublin-to-protect-hills-from-wildfires?fbclid=IwAR1fNmpcbXAVJIbIOdW_EOOWN9v6bDoDebIbPkIJNnhyoSUQXPqmFhZgd1U

Fairly understandable that people would get annoyed at them being shot when so much time and money is being spent on preserving them.

Cass

MODERATOR WARNING.

Name calling, swearing, and general abusive behaviour is not tolerated.

Keep it civil or I'll remove people's ability to post.

Unverifiable or not, and of course any outright false, claims of membership to any party, group or organisation is irrelevant and not germane to hunting, hence to the hunting forum.

Keep on topic, not just on this thread but on this forum.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118445490#Comment_118445490

Which is the obvious thing to do if they want to keep the breed pure. You have to isolate them and that they are on a UNESCO site. So now we need to sort out this thing with guided hunting providers here in Ireland. It's been a thorn in our sides for years.No point in blaming "the Furrniers" if it is Irish people offering the service and lining their own pockets, at the cost of the wildlife.

elperello

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22051512/

Podcast from Morning Ireland yesterday.

JPKeogh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118376169#Comment_118376169

Well it appears you were wrong I’ve just read that they were given Rare Breed status & officially are listed “at risk”. They’ve evidence the rare breed is being targeted. I’d rather they were shut down too, it’s just greedy marketing and it’s gonna make trouble for every other hunter.

Grizzly 45

Still a lot of "all hat and no cows!" as they say in Texas Being targeted..Proof, please?...Also, how are you going to know the difference between a purebred and a cross with a feral goat of domestic origin without a DNA test?

John_Rambo

The goats in Howth are part of a fire prevention project too. I live close by and have seen the fires and the cost of helicopter dropping massive buckets of water over the fires. From all the reports from the experts they seem to be the original older Irish breed.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119282247#Comment_119282247

I'm not being funny, but how do goats put out fire?

I wasn't aware forrect fires were an issue in the irish climate