Restrictions and possible ban being considered on tobacco sales

it takes 2 2 tango

This is nanny state rubbish. I’ve never smoked in my life and I’m quite anti smoking but this seems like a step too far. Nowhere else to my knowledge does this in Europe.

I think the NZ approach is the best of both approach. Instead of completely removing tobacco from society, they are planning on slowly increasing the age from next year’s 18 year olds, ie, anyone who wishes to purchase tobacco must be born on or before 2004.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/hse-considers-ban-on-sale-of-tobacco-in-state-1.4765676

Atlantic Dawn

I think they should restrict the sale to specialist state run shops and only allow the sale in cartons so it would be €150 a go.

Pawwed Rig

If there was not free health care I would agree with you however where I am paying medical costs because someone else has no regard for their health then we have an issue. I would favour raising the duty until the health service costs were entirely covered though rather than an outright ban. I would ban smoking areas out the front of pubs and cafes though.

it takes 2 2 tango

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118390958#Comment_118390958

Will that not encourage the black market?

Is the NZ approach not best?

Gradually increasing the minimum age so that people who are already hooked can still get a fix whilst stopping new people from getting hooked.

it takes 2 2 tango

Which figure is greater?

The revenue generated from legally sold tobacco?

or

The money consumed by the health services from tobacco-related illnesses?

They should impose an outright ban on tobacco. Its a perfect time when the population are somewhat used to living with restrictions brought in in order to protect each other and the health system.

Although I suspect this talk is merely a ploy to boost tax revenue from the panic buying of tobacco that is sure to follow.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118390974#Comment_118390974

Haven't cafe and pub owners suffered enough?

People would just get out of their seat and stand slightly further away from an outdoor cafe area potentially blocking up the street.

it takes 2 2 tango

If tobacco is no long sold here would it be made into a Scheduled substance?

Cannabis can be purchased in much of Europe but the import is obviously illegal here.

Should the same be done with tobacco here? ie, criminalise it?

Shilock

Smoking is unhealthy, I know. But taking a smoke from someone who likes his or her odd puff could be worse than the cure. Some people enjoy a cigarette, an elderly man who loves sitting down by the fire on a winter's evening having a smoke leaning against a gate on a summers evening observing his land and cow's not much company besides the odd road side chat. He loves an aul cigarette, he's harming himself in one way and he knows they're bad for him but it gives him a comfort and he likes that sensation of the throat hit. If they ban tobacco it'll be still available from underground sources.

rolling boh

waste of time would love to see an end to smoking but it would just give a huge boost to the blackmarket agree with raising the age and over time that and restrict where you can smoke might do something .At the moment appears to be a huge amount of cigs available for well below the shop price i see that at work lots of heavy smokers never buy in the shops all got from their pals .

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391013#Comment_118391013

A blanket ban would be arrogant and inflexible, showing total contempt for the population and driving many people into the black market.

A New Zealand style phase-out would perhaps be reasonable.

it takes 2 2 tango

So what’s the solution?

Keep slowly raising the age and abolish all VAT and duty to price the black market out of it. Figs for €1 a box.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391030#Comment_118391030

I would ban it it public tbh. Anywhere where a person can breathe in 2nd hand smoke should be protected

it takes 2 2 tango

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391071#Comment_118391071

What is your propose punishment for people caught smoking in public or tossing fag butts on the ground?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118390987#Comment_118390987

does the minimum age restrictions stop young people smoking?

does it stop them drinking?

rolling boh

Would love to see it banned in any public area would take time still surprises me the amount of people who smoke we are always told how highly educated our young people are yet they continue to smoke .

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058224989/restrictions-and-possible-ban-being-considered-on-tobacco-sales

Of course, the article says that the "ban" is only one possible option included in public consultation to see what actions could be taken, along with options at the other end of the scale like reducing nicotine content.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good outrage.

it takes 2 2 tango

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391167#Comment_118391167

Read the OP title 🤡

Ask a bigger boy or girl to help you though it if you’re stuck.

I literally said it in the OP.

17larsson

Well with the debt they've put the young people in they need them fit and healthy and paying taxes right up until they can retire at 75

Patsy167

For anyone saying quitting smoking is difficult, it's not.

I've done it about 20 times...

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391183#Comment_118391183

And then you got all outraged, calling it "nanny state rubbish" and "a step too far". Like a pound-shop Richard Littlejohn.

The bigger boys and girls I asked all agreed it was a classic example of not letting the facts get in the way of a good outrage, made even worse by the very fact that you recognised the speculative nature of the measures in the title of your thread and still chose to be outraged.

You'd want to watch the outrage, not good for the blood pressure. A bit like smoking in that regard.

it takes 2 2 tango

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391269#Comment_118391269

You’ve too much time on your hands bro 😂😂

It's like nothing was learned from the prohibition of alcohol or the war on drugs.

Those in power who proceed down these routes should be removed from positions of power.

If you can't look at all the evidence that's easily at hand and see what happens when you go down this route, you don't deserve a job of note and should be picking up papers with a picker on the street.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391083#Comment_118391083

Are you not the guy that wanted 1 year sentences for someone who forgets their mask and secret prisons for unvaccinated people? Maybe smokers could be brought to the secret prison aswell?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391071#Comment_118391071

It seems to be the way of things now but that total inflexibility will drive people into the black market.

Some people would go through extreme withdrawals if they suddenly stopped now after a lifetime.

Much better to take active steps to stop new generations of smokers from coming up.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391149#Comment_118391149

Same can be said of consuming, fast food, alcohol, generally poor diet & not enough sleep.. all of which are detrimental to health

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391282#Comment_118391282

Says the guy with 110 posts in two days 😂😂

In all seriousness, though, that's kind of pathological. Maybe take it a bit easier?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118390987#Comment_118390987

The NZ approach is stupid, too.

Imagine in 20 years time, when your 35 year old friend can buy cigarettes, but 34 year old you cannot. Its just giving drug dealers a wider product range to trade in.

it takes 2 2 tango

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391396#Comment_118391396

There’s merit in what you’re saying although “in theory” the 34 year old won’t have ever bought or consumed tobacco… in theory.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391004#Comment_118391004

I don't have the figures off the top of my head, but diseases secondary to smoking cost the state a lot more than any taxes they pull in? Take for example, CAR-T treatment for ALL cost 300k per treatment.

Phil.x

North Korea is starting to look more and more normal.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391396#Comment_118391396

Its a cultural approach as much as a legal one.

cigarettes are targeted at young people because generally people above 20 dont take up smoking.

The smoking ban in ireland changed the culture as well as the indoor environment for the good where now smoking isnt seen in the same light as it was.

MakersMark

Funny how everyone is guilt tripping the idiots who won't get a vaccine because of the strain on the hospitals, but not the idiot smokers who put a strain on the hospitals.

Maybe we should force smokers to take Champix?

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391491#Comment_118391491

Not sure in Ireland how they are targetted at young people. They are in closed off lockers in retail outlets, no advertising allowed, cigarettes are in plain packaging, no sport televised in Ireland has any tobacco advertising to differentiate one brand from another.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118390974#Comment_118390974

I understand the concept and agree in a black and white sense, but then we must apply this to people that eat too much and drink too much as of course its quite evident the clear link between those and health problems also. But, this can't and won't happen

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391558#Comment_118391558

Agreed that it won't happen but I think a reduction in your health insurance or tax should be provided for someone that can pass a basic fitness test. Obviously needs to be fleshed out more but it is irksome when I have to pay the health costs of people who refuse to mitigate those costs in the slightest.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391511#Comment_118391511

Legislation and attitudes has already done this.

It used to be acceptable to smoke in work, a pub and around children

Smokers now need to stand outside and smoke. The attitudes to smoking has changed completely in the last 20 years

I've recently given it up about 3 years ago, bwcause I don't want to die the death I've seen others die, because of smoking

As a well known ENT specialist said to me, in his 35 years of practice he's only ever once seen throat cancer in a non smoker. He was a taxi driver. Back when people could smoke in the taxi

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391577#Comment_118391577

Great. We finally agree on something 👏 😆

We can iron out the finer details of this proposal at a later date

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391577#Comment_118391577

That's crazy.

This 'Emergency decree' rubbish is definitely warping people's minds.

You're aren't paying people's health costs.

Money from taxation is collected into a general pot and then distributed in all sorts of ways. Some of them obviously dodgy which people cover for by saying 'never ascribe to malice that which can be ascribed to incompetence' (repeat 10 times out loud)

blackbox

It sounds like a great opportunity for organised crime.

Prohibition of alcohol. Look how well that worked in USA.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391666#Comment_118391666

I am paying people health costs. My tax is collected and goes to a central pot. A disproportionate %age of this money (i.e. my taxes) are used for health and social welfare. If these guys would look after themselves better health expenses would be lessened and we would therefore not need to pay as much tax or the tax could be used where it is better utilised (like education or R&D).

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391752#Comment_118391752

Collected tax monies are squandered by deliberately overpaying private contractors and to repay mad debts the state should never have taken on.

They aren't going to lower your taxes even if health costs magically go down. Billions are pumped into the HSE but they couldn't even meet their ICU expansion targets for 2021. But Mr. Taxpayer needn't inquire about that right?

Taxation can't be based on behaviour. It isn't neatly collected and distributed to begin with. It seems to me a compensatory fantasy to think that every penny deducted from your salary has been allocated wisely.

How about when we paid billions to lease private hospitals we never used in 2020. Maybe all the money you've paid in taxes over your entire lifetime was pocketed in that instance, contributing precisely nothing to the general good but thanks anyway.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391848#Comment_118391848

I never said it was. I think the waste by the government is bordering on criminal but 'the people' are happy with the situation and are currently lobbying for it to get worse (SF rise in polls).

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391752#Comment_118391752

But the ex-smokers would just live longer and develop more age-related disorders eg dementia, and so cost more to care for long term.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391975#Comment_118391975

Maybe, it’s hard to see a great future for smoking though. If they weren’t legal I think less people would smoke. It’s not like banning alcohol or drugs. The motivation to get drugs and alcohol will always be there because they are such fun. There is no fun in smoking really. Only the addicted will really be motivated to go out of their way to get cigarettes imo.

Fr Tod Umptious

If I am correct about the NZ law anyone born after a certain date cannot ever buy cigarettes in their lifetime.

That is completely bizarre and down right obnoxious.

If I'm an adult I should be allowed to make a choice about whether I want to smoke cigarettes or otherwise.

You cannot outright ban a adult from doing something that is legal for other adults to do based on their date of birth.

it takes 2 2 tango

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392124#Comment_118392124

Just watch them.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392129#Comment_118392129

Oh I'm not saying it won't happen, it's just nuts in my opinion though.

rolling boh

I get the point about general health issues eg poor diet drink etc but smoking does impact on others close by so that is why i would like to see it banned in public places though only tiny chance that will happen .

Ubbquittious

Why would anyone in this day and age take up smoking? How common is it for young people to start these days? Surely the whole thing is dying out as it is. Back in the mid 2000s you'd see loads of young folk puffing away but u don't really see that anymore

I just find it bizarre that it's mostly the same people who would welcome laws allowing the government what they can and can't do with their own bodies are the same people who wear repeal jumpers.