2022 In Between Grand Slam Thread

yerwanthere123

No surprises here, Djokovic's visa ban apparently overturned and is free to play the Australian Open.

josip

FAA a break up in the 2nd against Nadal so it looks almost certain that Alcaraz is #1 at year end.

Floppybits

Whats going on with Nadal? Is it that he is not match fit or does he just want to get through these games and get back home?

Royale with Cheese

Nadal usually switches off for the year as soon as the US Open is done. If he didn't have a shot of being the year end #1 I doubt he'd have even turned up.

dominatinMC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119878039#Comment_119878039

Plus, indoor hardcourt conditions just don't suit his gamestyle.

yerwanthere123

I think Nadal just wasn't invested in this tournament from the off tbh. He obviously also became a father recently after what was apparently a difficult pregnancy for his wife, so I think his mind is elsewhere.

whiterebel

They said in one of the commentaries that this is the fastest court on tour anywhere this year. Certainly wouldn’t suit Nadal.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119877494#Comment_119877494

Actually it wasn't until the Ruud - Fritz match that Nadal was certainly ruled out of the semis and Alcaraz was number 1. Although all the articles this morning are highlighting that he's the youngest year end #1 by over a year, his 6820 year end points total are also a record. It's the lowest by a considerable margin since 2009 when the current distribution was put in place. The previous lowest being 2018 when Djokovic had 8045. In no other year except 2022 would 6820 points have been good enough at any time to become #1. The record up to this year was 7645 by Nadal in 2017. So although Alcaraz has had a great year and his future looks bright, him being on top this year has more to do with the bar being lower, than with his achievements.

https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/record?recordId=LeastATPPointsAsNo1

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880601#Comment_119880601

That'll be the new normal now, the golden age of the big three is over, time to get used to the lower bar

yerwanthere123

Ruud loses 5-7 5-7 to Nadal, and in the process is now 0-20 in sets against top three opponents. Good player and nice guy, but utterly powerless against the very top players.

Royale with Cheese

Wow, that's a crazy stat.

Nadal hitting career-record ace figures and Ruud's serve speed way down - paying his academy fee for the year.

josip

Winning the ATP finals moves Djokovic up to 5th in the rankings, 2000 points behind Alcaraz.

yerwanthere123

Djokovic may finish the year ranked #5 but we all know who the real #1 is. I wonder is 2023 the year when he finally stands alone atop the slam race.

dublin49

The missus and I love d tennis ,she adores Nadal and hates Djock with a vengeance,is there any effing chance someone would get the measure of him and give my poor head peace.

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119899593#Comment_119899593

Even a declining Djokovic whose had a stop start year is still too good for the rest, the standard has really dropped, l mean Ruud who is just a solid, steady, but limited player is now one of the main challengers. Alcaraz apart the future looks bleak for men's tennis post Djokovic and Nadal.

That other 19 year-old Rune who beat an all-time record 5 Top 10 players in one knockout tournament including a pretty handy Djokovic surely won't go far at all.

Might as well call the ATP and tell them he's quitting now because it's bleak.

it was 2 x 19-year olds in the Top 10 for the first time since 2007.

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119901653#Comment_119901653

The fact it wasn't done before proves my point that the standard at the top is poor. Also Alcaraz retired injured, while Rune was winning, Alcaraz could well have turned it around if not injured. Fair play to him for beating Djokovic, but, Djokovic is far from his prime now, but, still probably the toughest player to beat.

Rune played better than Alcaraz that day, was a set ahead and was much more likely to win out, injury or no injury for Alcaraz.

A guy that who shot from outside the Top 70 to the Top 10 in a little over 6 months (a quicker rise than Alcaraz from a similar position by a number of months) and is the only guy to beat Djokovic in the last 5 tournaments.

"wasn't done before" as if the history of the ATP is littered with players winning a Masters 1000 as a teenager - the 7th ever.

The Djokovic who dropped 1 set winning the ATP Finals, whose serve has actually gotten much better over the last number of years to be now amongst the most effective on tour and what has he really lost.

The future is indeed bleak indeed with him and Alcaraz.

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119904093#Comment_119904093

Next you'll be saying Djokovic is getting better! Did you ever think that the reason two current teenagers have won at ATP level and in the top 10, one at number 1, is because the standard is currently at a low ebb. Djokovic has had his year totally interrupted ( his own fault) and is in decline, yet is still winning consistently despite all the big layoffs throughout his season.

2 generational age achievements (Rune 4th youngest ever to win a masters 1000) and on the other hand the best player of all time whose ability is still elite level with the highest level of mental strength (this is no broken-down Nadal we're looking at)

“Many fail to grasp what they have seen,

and cannot judge what they have learned,

although they tell themselves they know.”

― Heraclitus, Fragments

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119906254#Comment_119906254

Wha?

And how did that go in the final set??

Girly Gal

A bit early to be claiming Rune to be a generational talent, time will tell on that. Djokovic can rightly claim to be the greatest and while he's still playing at a high level, his level has definitely dropped in the last year or so, it's just that the level of the opposition is still not up to his level on a consistent basis. He's 35, and will soon be 36, the fact he's still the one to beat when he plays, shows the level of opposition is lower than when in his prime. Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Zverev, Theim have all shown they are not up to it when it matters. Alcaraz looks the real deal, but, the question remains would he have over come Djokovic in the USO, we'll never know of course. The AO should be interesting!

Tennis is not a 100m sprint or an arm-wrestling contest

There are 3 parts to the Tennis Game

The Tactical Game ->

This refers to in-game shot selection (what ball to attack, what ball to defend), the different strategy to employ against different opponents, analysis of different opponents (data analysis is becoming significant here). There is zero correlation of having an advantage at a younger age here. In fact, this is what Alcaraz and Rune will improve here in the next few years. At the ATP finals the use of slice against Fritz compared to against Tsitsipas, deliberate slow serves to Ruud's backhand to deny him speed on his weak point to use etc. varied significantly by opponent. Djokovic is known for maybe losing matches to new young players but then working out how to beat them. E.g. he lost 2 of the first 3 matches vs Tsitsipas but won the next 9. He has been able to change strategy mid-match to beat opponents like Medvedev.

The Psychological Game ->

The mental game. The ability to play the clutch points unlike the rest, to be resilient, to marshal the body with the mind if required when the body might be weakening, to be able to raise the level. Not correlated to young age. Some have it, some don't. It can be developed to some extent for some, for others not. No need to say anything here in respect of Djokovic except that even if he's starting out having a bad day he can remain calm and not panic, trust himself and raise his level over the match, even if 2 sets down sometimes in a slam match. Alcaraz is able to play the big points in a fearless manner bringing all his skill. Less proven with Rune but he looks to have it also as he has shown some impressive resilience.

The Physical game ->

This has 2 parts, technique and athleticism. Having really good technique is not just being able to hit a crisp backhand at the start of the match but having technique that doesn't break down after 4 hours with fatigue. Someone like say Djokovic has some of the most reliable shots in tennis that don't break down. Honed by huge amounts of practice of course. And some aspects of the game can be improved over the years through working on them, even in a player's thirties if they are dedicated enough. The improvement in Djokovic's serve is still happening. It was a known weaker point but now he is in the Top 10 on tour of most service games won (as well as being the best returner ever). His net game is better also. Alcaraz is not able to be consistent on wins because his lack of potent serve means he is susceptible to losing service games on a slightly off day leading to higher variance, despite his great skills. He's below average tour height so has a disadvantage here for placement so has a lot of work to do to be more effective.

Athleticism is obviously something that is affected by physical fitness and age. Biological endurance reduces with age. Djokovic has a slim and flexible body-make-up that is less prone to injury / breakdown and generates power through technique, not by brute force which is harder on the body so he has an advantage there over other players. He's still one of the Top 5 if not 3 movers on the tour which is not down to only speed but also anticipation of what the opponent is going to do next with the ball. Obviously he's not as fast as Alcaraz but his anticipation is better. He will have to fight more against fatigue sure as he ages but his mental strength and his so reliable technique that doesn't break down usually back him up here. He will have more off days but is still putting together 20 match streaks on the tour even this disjointed year. Age is undefeated but tennis a combination of different aspects and there is no divine right given to younger players to win and the best players of all time can still be very very good depending on how the body holds up and how the different strengths combine overall. If something in the body breaks completely like Federer's knees then it's over sure. Of the 2 new players Alcaraz has undoubted explosive athleticism obviously. Rune is a natural athlete also with very sound technique that doesn't seem to break down and has the height and a better serve than Alcaraz and a better backhand at the moment also.

Girly Gal

Good post, but, there's nothing in it that any fairly knowledgeable tennis fan (or sportsfan in general) doesn't already know.

Dunno, copying the results page or making the same point over and over seems to be the norm.

The big picture seems to be frequently absent and recency bias rules at all times.

camz09

Anybody here trying to watch replays of the Nitto ATP Finals on Amazon Prime and find the search button useless? (Unless it's on the Recently Ended section) It only goes up to 19 November so that means I can't look up the Djokovic vs Medvedev match on replay since it's further back. A search of keywords would render random atp match or nitto finals from 2020 or last year. UGH!!

yerwanthere123

Wonder if this'll be any good

https://twitter.com/josemorgado/status/1603054250262953984?t=AF2UWZRI6Z9xQqk5PAHPgA&s=19

https://twitter.com/jamesgraysport/status/1603049926362992640?t=wo9a0qapMGmlQ_JaoJaMgQ&s=19

Not looking forward to the Kyrgios episode. I imagine it'll entirely consist of him explaining away his terrible behaviour on 'mental health' grounds.

dominatinMC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119996364#Comment_119996364

Those key players aren't very enticing anyway, I must admit.

yerwanthere123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119996446#Comment_119996446

Perhaps not the most interesting list of players, but I actually think they'd be more interesting than the PR driven crap we'd get from a top tier player. Like that Naomi Osaka 'documentary', for example.