Irish language gets full EU status today

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118416175#Comment_118416175

You certainly don’t suffer from embarrassment when your arguments fall flat.

you still haven’t managed to show us what it was that was agreed on Irish signage. You should copy the councils in when you find it because they are all doing different things

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118416937#Comment_118416937

What did I say was 'agreed'?

I didn't say anything about 'what was agreed'.

HERE IS WHAT I SAID...'there is dual language signage all over the north' and more and more is appearing the latest council to introduce it, being Belfast.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118416990#Comment_118416990

I really don’t want to go over this all again. You said consensus had been reached and you said “Dual language signage is NOT controversial in 'much of the north', in fact it exists in much of the north and nobody bats an eyelid at it.”

i think most rational people can see this is utter nonsense

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411767#Comment_118411767

So we are all Irish and need to grow up. All simply because Jaylen Attractive Bellboy defines himself as coming from Ireland. Mmmmmm

“ but the matter of fact is we’re all IRISH, (like if asked where I’m from, I said Ireland, I don’t say I am from the REPUBLIC OF SOUTH IRELAND. REPUBLIC.) and IRISH is our countries language.”

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417492#Comment_118417492

bro what is actually wrong with you? haha.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417537#Comment_118417537

I guess, in your eyes, what’s is probably wrong with me is that I am British and born on the same island as you.

same island, different country.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417053#Comment_118417053

So are you in denial that large areas of the north have dual signage and more and more areas are getting it?

Sure there are people ranting about it but they have done that about parades, flags, agreements and protocols but they are here to stay too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417669#Comment_118417669

I don’t have a problem that you’re British. I don’t care. At all.

however, your being British or not doesn’t explain the nonsense you typed.

So we are all Irish and need to grow up. All simply because Jaylen Attractive Bellboy defines himself as coming from Ireland. Mmmmmm

this is not something I said. What I said was, if on the island of island, the Irish language is so offensive that even the thoughts of looking at it on a road sign are too much for you, go somewhere else to live.

like I’m depressed I even have to go this far with it.. but has no one else, in their lifetime, had someone tell them “if you don’t like it go somewhere else” meant either literally or figuratively.

for example, when I was a teenager, if I disagreed with my folks on something they’d often comment “well if you don’t like my rules go live somewhere else!” Obviously they didn’t mean it literally and I certainly never would have said something as ridiculous as you in response.

likewise it could be used in a literal sense— for example a supermarket. You could go and complain about the prices of things and you’d be directed to go shop elsewhere.

now do you think anyone is reading what I said, bearing those examples in mind & taking it literally? Do you reckon anyone booked their plane tickets?

no, they’re not, of course. So rather than respond with any real argument you’ve just clutched onto this notion I’ve effectively expelled you from the country/island, which is neither my desire (or within any sort of authority I do or do not hold) so going back and forth with this is absolutely pointless. Like honestly if you have nothing useful to add leave me alone? Why are you filling up my inbox with such shite I’ll never understand.. does it honestly offend you so much that I don’t immediately drop to my knees seeking your forgiveness for what I’ve said and don’t worry downcow we’ll rid of all Irish just so you don’t have to be offended by it’s existence.

Once again for those in the back— what I said was

if the national language of Irish is so utterly offensive to your eyes and ears even road bilingual road signs are too much to cope with you can, just like anyone; move elsewhere so you don’t have to be plagued by the offence.

if, however, you can be a big boy or a big girl and just get over it since it doesn’t impact you in any meaningful way then congrats on being an adult. (as I said also, would you go to Canada and demand they stop speaking French because you don’t like it?).

if on the other hand you’re too much of a cry baby to look at the Irish language and rather bury your head in the sand and pretend Irish doesn’t exist and Britain didn’t come and force us all to speak English, then my advice is to piss off to England.

keyword, downcow, that’s just my personal advice on the subject, it would apply to any and all who want to act like big cry babies over a road sign.

if you don’t like it, tough. Go be a crybaby elsewhere. Stop replying to me with rubbish.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417669#Comment_118417669

Also that’s a terrible victim complex you have there downcow.

Assuming my problem with your posts is your British? Why would that be? What’s the angle there exactly, I disagree with you therefore you hate me cos I’m British?

give me strength.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417690#Comment_118417690

….slowly slowly. So you have withdrawn your claim that “nobody bats an eyelid at it.”

now we just need you to realise that this statement is inaccurate “Dual language signage is NOT controversial in 'much of the north'” - although I suppose your last post sort of retracts that as well.

now that wasn’t so painful, was it?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417871#Comment_118417871

Nobody bats an eyelid downcow...life goes on in Fermanagh/Omagh/Tyrone/Derry/Belfast etc etc etc

...nobody is wilting or fainting at the roadsides of Newtownbutler coz the glimpsed a bit of the Gaelige.

YES, your belligerent politicians will rant and visit cul de sac's over it...so what?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417759#Comment_118417759

Haha. This give me a lol moment. For you to finish such a post with “Stop replying to me with rubbish”.

and just for the benifit of onlookers, I have sent nothing to his inbox - any communication I have had is open on the forum.

Thanks, Thats a very reasoned, non-contradictory post from a very balanced guy 👍.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417787#Comment_118417787

You might be forgetting what you are posting, but the relevance was that you were insisting I was Irish because I was born on this island.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417669#Comment_118417669

The british governments,home office can thanks to their new legislation and the protections within the gfa,revoke your british passport and citizenship at stroke of a pen🤣

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417924#Comment_118417924

Notifications appear in the inbox, is what I meant, just for clarity sake.

Beyond that I’ve no interest in furthering any discussion with you.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417940#Comment_118417940

Maybe you will show us some evidence of this, or else we will have to assume you have lost the plot and are talking total nonsense. I am very confident that I will die British, but I am waiting in anticipation for you to show how I may not ??

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418002#Comment_118418002

I didn’t think we were having a discussion🤔. You must be quare crack at a dinner party if that’s what you call ‘discussion’.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418021#Comment_118418021

For someone proclaiming emselves british,you dont really follow the carry on of the government actions there

The British home secretary is able to revoke citizenship from people without dual nationality if the individual acquired their citizenship by naturalisation; and the home secretary has “reasonable grounds to believe” they are likely to be eligible for another nationality; and they have acted in a way that is “seriously prejudicial” to the “vital interests” of the UK.

(this law is now being expanded due to uk born isis brides,and unionists been forgot about and caught up in it🤣🤣)

the GFA gaurantees yous an irish passport,an issue taken advantage of,by many of the blackest orangemen over brexit.....nothing to stop your government,pulling your citizenship and no longer even need to notify yous....id be contacting your local MP to find out,if your even still a citizen......

britins position around NI is already as neutral/no stragetic interest,so its deffo not in its vital interest to keep yous sweet

Fear not,yous wont be deported,due to the special relationship irish citizens in britain have going back to time of de valera

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418076#Comment_118418076

You guys really do hang on the the most ridiculous extreme hypothetical scenarios. I can understand why. If I had wanted a UI and been told 100 years ago that ni will last about 5 years, and been told endless times since that it was imminent, most recently Gerry’s prediction of UI by 2016, then I would also cling on to wild hypothetical possibilities. It would actually be a good metaphor for teaching kids about the second coming

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418116#Comment_118418116

I have not once mentioned a united ireland,nor is this thread about it....its hilarious yous run for cover on that after being exposed

Yous asked for evidence of how yous may end up losing your british passport...upon receiving the factual and logic based info...yous respond with non-sequiters about a utd irelands....

desperate poor effort to pivot away from your lack of knowledge on what the british governments actions👏👏.....perhaps you should contact your MP and/or home office,to see if your still a citizen??,they no longer need to notify yous

downcow

another perspective

Ray Bassett, Ireland’s former ambassador to Canada, Jamaica and the Bahamas, is a fluent Gaelicspeaker himself. He nevertheless believes the bloc’s decision to grant it full official and working status in the institutions of the European Union will simply see countless documents needlessly translated. “I am an Irish speaker myself and very sympathetic to the language. However I think the EU move is a complete waste of time and resources. What it essentially means is that well-paid officials in Brussels will spend countless hours working on translating tedious texts, senseless bureaucratic rules, etc and that their output will, in the vast majority of cases, be read by nobody other than the translators themselves. It is essentially a meaningless and expensive gesture.”

And a more positive take from Michael d

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/enhanced-eu-status-of-irish-language-a-significant-achievement-says-higgins-1.4767349

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418147#Comment_118418147

That'd be Ray, the almost lone Irexit proponent? 😁😁

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418141#Comment_118418141

I was actually being kind to you by suggesting you were clutching at straws. I actually think you are talking nonsense. Let’s check out if there are in of the most optimistic republicans out there who agree with you.

here’s a wee bit might help you

“Northern Ireland is part of the UK. As stated in the Belfast Agreement

(external link opens in a new window / tab)

also known as the Good Friday Agreement, the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Government of Ireland recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.”

I see in the recent release of historic government papers that Gerry Adam’s pushed hard for 50%+1 t be included in the agreement about referendum, and then seriously regretted its inclusion. I guess because he realised that it was a bar that would never be reached.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418245#Comment_118418245

The new law,allows the british government can revoke it,if yous qualify for another passport

Looks to me,yous been destroyed with facts and logic here,mate.....boris not happy with throwing yous under the bus,can now revoke your citizenship at stroke of a pen😅

FrancieBrady

Somebody has decided to now try and wind people up.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418300#Comment_118418300

not often I am in agreement with you, but yes, you are 100% right. I will stop rising to the absurd argument.

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418278#Comment_118418278

Did you miss the 'if' in what you posted? Pretty sure this does not apply to the vast majority of British citizens in NI. Just for clarity.

The British home secretary is able to revoke citizenship from people without dual nationality if the individual acquired their citizenship by naturalisation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418360#Comment_118418360

Did you miss the part,where i outlined the british government is updating it,so as to include uk-born isis brides?

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418380#Comment_118418380

You reckon DC is an ISIS bride?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418456#Comment_118418456

The British attitude to NI (which was and never will be 'Britain') should concern Unionists. From...'no British PM could ever accept a sea border' to a sea border being the best oven ready deal ever in less than a year.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418456#Comment_118418456

😂😂😂😂

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417931#Comment_118417931

These things are subjective downcow. Definitions are subjective.

Many Americans will tell you that they are "Irish". A typical justification for that was that they had a great great grandfather who came from Co. Whatever. (The distinction between Scotch Irish and Irish has largely been forgotten over there except in some places like West Virginia). Most have never visited here. The very odd one will actually have kept a passport through a few generations. I have learned to suppress the automatic reaction to want to say "eh, no you're not really" because I learned that it means something different to them and that is equally as valid.

The US affinity for Ireland is actually something exploited at the diplomatic level in the US by NI. In every other country in the world, anything to do with NI is under the roof of the relevant British Embassy and there is no distinction. In the US it is done by the Northern Ireland Bureau which is housed separately. So when money is in question, it even suits the unionists to put themselves under "I" in the dictionary for the US at least. Here is an example of an article which told how only Ian Paisley Jnr was going over to meet with the bigliest and bestest president of all time for St. Patrick's Day. It also has a photo of Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness meeting the Kenyan from a previous St. Patrick's Day https://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2017/03/16/news/just-a-handful-of-northern-politicians-join-st-patrick-s-day-celebrations-in-washington-965819/

I also meet people with very heavy accents who look distinctly un-stereotypically "Irish" who say they are Irish as they have been naturalised. They have an Irish passport. More than one has told me stories of being surprised when people made remarks that they were not Irish, even though they have a passport. Basically, your definition of "Irish" is not the same as someone else's definition of "Irish" and none are necessarily more valid objectively speaking than the other.

You have a British passport I gather. But you weren't born on the Island of Britain. The thread is also about languages and we veered off into Scots etc. It is also a well known fact that for much of the historical use of the term, "British" meant "English". You are entitled to call yourself British if you want. You are also entitled to call yourself Irish if you want. It is also worth noting that the Ulster plantations preceded official union of Scotland and the UK. If your ancestors actually came over in the plantation, they came over a Scottish Nationals and not "UK" ones.

Most of what you hold out as your historical differences are manufactured revisionisms for political purposes over the last 150 years in order to create a subset of "loyal" subjects who would be rewarded for maintaining some order here. The British did the same in India too. They created an "upper" class of administrators over there and created a myth of origin and superiority for them too. On this island it includes the erasing of the fact that many protestants could speak Irish a hundred years or so ago. The Brits were always experts at dividing

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418646#Comment_118418646

I agree with a lot of what you say there, but please note that it is not me telling anyone what they are or are not. This diversion came out of people yet again telling me I am Irish.

interesting what you point out about use of ni in USA, but even more interesting that you seem to link that with Ireland , rather than the Uk which it is officially part of.

I wouldn’t get too hung up on whether Scotland was or wasn’t technically part of the Uk at a certain time. Where does that all end eg the United Kingdom famine, after all that’s technically where it took place.

it’s far too complex for those black and white observations

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415063#Comment_118415063

It's almost 20 years since a take home pay of €70K a year would have successfully competed for my labour, so it's something I can't imagine doing for any purpose whatsoever. But nice try.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415298#Comment_118415298

It takes a remarkably limited and narrow-minded view of the world to regard helping a supermarket corporation make profits for its shareholders as "contributing far more towards the needs of society". But whatever floats yer goat.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418147#Comment_118418147

Ah Jaysus, Ray Bassett is getting an outing now.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418744#Comment_118418744

My point about the NI Bureau in the US is that it is that they actually make that distinction. They understand the value of the brand of "Ireland" in the US and they make a conscious effort to brand themselves as separate from the British Embassy. This even extends so far as to locate themselves off the British Embassy grounds.

If a person strictly considered themselves only as "British" without any qualification, then they'd want to be structured as part of the British Embassy. As far as I am aware, that distinction is not made anywhere else in the world. If you are in any other country anywhere, and you want to discuss something in relation to NI, then you go and meet with the British Diplomats in the local British Embassy. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with it, I'm just making the point that it can be possible to give up a bit of the "British" label and tack on a bit of the "Irish" label when it is advantageous to do so. I'm not trying to offend or annoy you, but I would say that if you moved to the US, you'd find yourself introducing yourself as (Northern) Irish rather than British.

People can consider you as Irish under their own definition of the word. That is up to them. You can consider yourself however you want. Some people might say it is based on citizenship or passport. Then you can decide whether that is possession of a passport (which I assume you don't have) or entitlement to a passport (which I assume you do have). I once met a fella when working abroad who was "Irish". His name and surname was obviously Middle Eastern. He told me that he was born in Ireland as his father was studying in Dublin at the time but he was only a few months here and never returned after he left. He used the Irish passport though. He would satisfy some people's definition of Irish, and not others.

The thing about the US is that so many people identify as having some Irish ancestry. And some of those (protestant) ancestors would have actually went over as Irish, and later branded themselves as "Scotch Irish" when the poor Catholic Irish followed them over later on. Their descendants are often unaware of that and just identify with the island of Ireland now. Which is a bit ironic in some ways.

And I must say that I am glad that you agreed with my description of the bigliest and bestest President, and not the Kenyan 😉

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419105#Comment_118419105

Ireland's own Farage,

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418076#Comment_118418076

Emma DeSousa asking the questions Unionists really should be asking now.

https://twitter.com/EmmandJDeSouza/status/1478504923025317894

It will be an interesting debate. Wonder will the Unionist peers be asking or is asking an admission in itself?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419093#Comment_118419093

Well I presume you eat food? And unless you grow it all yourself, you presumably purchase it? Assuming so, the person behind the checkout is performing a most useful service to you and society in general. It is meaningful & useful work. I certainly appreciate their contribution.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420049#Comment_118420049

I generally use self service tills the last few years myself where available

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420049#Comment_118420049

You are nearly there Furse.

Ask yourself or anyone else 'do you value efforts to save and promote the Irish language?'.

If the answer is 'No', then IYO society doesn't benefit...if the answer is YES, then to those people, the work of translators is a benefit.

Do it with all activity...like the performance artist, the circus clown, the professional gambler, a member of a royal family etc etc...see how you get on.

steddyeddy

DC I've been following the debate here. It's hasn't been the easiest thread to follow as it started off about Irish language recognition in the EU but your posts have migrated to the topic of what loyalists in Northern Ireland think of the language. Well what they think of the language is irrelevant TBH. I think that their objections come from a point of biogtry and not genuine concerns. I would be equally unwilling to discuss their problems with the LGTB community. Fears based on bigotry are extremely entrenched and only can be reduced by the cold light of progress.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419293#Comment_118419293

Poor Nigel missed out on this year's NY honours list. It's a tough beat. 😁

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420049#Comment_118420049

And the multinationals make money, too. We're all winners, yaaaayy!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420149#Comment_118420149

I like Irish and Scottish traditional music, and I think society is better for having them.

My wife rolls her eyes to heaven and says "you're listening to that diddley-aye Anúna Clannad Riverdance shite again, are ya?"

But we still somehow get on.

steddyeddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404214#Comment_118404214

DC once again I am baffled as your posts on this subject constantly contradict themselves. For example here's what you posted previously on the issue. So here you state that unionists would not have a problem with signs and would be happy for equal respect. Again your more recent posts here change sentiment. Your sentiment changes are hard to keep up with dude.

Unionists do not want to block anything. You make a good analogy. Every unionist would be delighted if Irish Culture and language got exactly the same support and rights as Ulster-scots / Ulster-British culture

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118421921#Comment_118421921

Strange, very strange view. You wouldn't be a member of something like the National Party by any chance? https://nationalparty.ie/

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118421943#Comment_118421943

i have no idea where you see a contradiction. atm irish gets many times the funding ulster-british culture gets. i am saying equality in this area would be wonderful

steddyeddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422035#Comment_118422035

I don't believe that you believe that.