Sock-Puppetting and the Current Affairs Forum

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448674#Comment_118448674

cant disagree with any of that at all

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448687#Comment_118448687

On the irony - saying whataboutry is killing more threads than sock puppets is now whataboutry. 🤣

As for your suggestion - Do you think I didn't try that?

There can be no discussion when the party faithful (of all parties) entrench and start lobbing whatabout bombs at each other. This has been going on for years and the net result is a hell of a lot of people just don't bother. It's the same posters having the same bicker.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448756#Comment_118448756

Oh no I meant the example you gave in your post there. I absolutely agree that disingenuous posting, of which whataboutery is a flavour, is the main problem affecting these discussions. I'd even see sock-puppeting as being just another aspect of it.

I agree with everything else you say here too.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118449097#Comment_118449097

Apologies.

I misread.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118433850#Comment_118433850

Where's your evidence of SF sock puppetting(?)? Isn't it based on assumptions? I've seen many people criticise FF/FG and be labelled a shinner or a homophobe or racist without any proof.

Seems to me your entire thread here is designed to attack SF and accuse anyone being a sock puppet also being a shinner. It's the same we see regarding any tweet criticising government being attributed to the online SF bot army.

Sounds to me like party bias and assumption. The usual shinner crusade.

Your comment above is very unlikely considering the leader of FG himself pushed for sock puppet accounts as a party agenda.

Conspiracy theory of convenience IMO.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118450368#Comment_118450368

Bizarre, just bizarre.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118450368#Comment_118450368

the example that started this thread and the example uncovered during the thread were both pro-SF posters. that is pretty much all they posted about. I think that qualifies as SF sock-puppetting.

banie01

Quite interesting that a spoofer and Walt is taking issue with a ban on anyone for sock-puppeting TBH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396571#Comment_118396571

Nonsense about a 27 year career in US CBP versus,

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422981#Comment_118422981

Living in Dublin their whole life. Look its the internet, bullshit is part and parcel of discussion and bullshit filters need to be well attuned. But? don't lie like Trump, piss on me and try and convince its raining. Some poster's want to have evidence lain out for them, when they are arrant bullshItters themselves.

On the topic at hand and the sock-puppeting? I'm not at all surprised it happens and I'd be one of those posters who often jibed that certain regular posters were at it. I am surprised (Slightly) that it was McMurphy. I'm all for taking politics seriously but adding accounts to create a sense of support, traction or circle-jerking is a bit pointless. Either your argument stands and can be supported? Or it can't, the "thanks" don't matter IMO.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118450368#Comment_118450368

Well now, here comes another poster to make the exact same silly point that was just dealt with. And when we respond to you @Shebean will we have another poster take their turn to make a similar allegation, in a similar way?

So once again, to summarise the facts that have been accepted by all reasonable people as presented by the mods:

The referenced user had many accounts which they used to as sock-puppets. This user posted almost entirely in a pro-SF manner. Therefore this user was a pro-SF sock-puppet.

And the quick fire round!

Does anyone know he was paid for or directed by SinnFein? No.

Is it clear that he was doing this to further a SF agenda as he saw it? Yes.

Is it so clear that claiming otherwise discredits ones position? Also yes.

Has this got anything to do with FineGael or Fianna Fail? No.

Does mention of the other political parties look like desperate deflection? Yes.

Interesting analysis done here on online abuse of politicians on Twitter. Depressingly familiar scenarios - female politicians are subject to more abuse, and SF supporters are more toxic than those of other political parties:

https://twitter.com/breakaway_ian/status/1480564048437592069?s=21

Bubbaclaus

I actually don't know how people could find the time to run so many accounts. People with that amount of time on their hands won't be gone for long, that's for sure. It would be interesting to know if boards mods have any basis to catch and flag potential reregs based on IP before they even get posting - I would presume not.

I recall an instance where the McMurphy account replied to a post of mine and then almost instantly replied to the same post with an insult directed at me, which was immediately deleted before I could quote it. The McMurphy account denied this completely and said I must have been seeing things. Knowing what we know now it was obviously the case they had intended to use a dummy account to get an insult in and messed up the account they used.

"i honestly dont know where people find the time"

37.5 hours a week with an hour lunch is the obvious conclusion

Beasty

I've just been doing some totting up. Over the period since March 2021 when all these extra accounts started appearing I reckon there have been around 2,000 posts across all the accounts (mostly McMurphy - maybe 1.300 or so from that account). Not a massive number compared to some, but they typically only posted in a handful of threads in CA. Pretty much all domestic political threads (and when I say "domestic" I include NI in this)

As I've already mentioned there was a lot of activity thanking each other's posts as well as posting to add emphasis/support to SF political causes

"boards.ie official declares 32 county republic after banning a dozen sinn fein accounts" is a hell of a headline, all the same.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118450413#Comment_118450413

Where did I claim there were none? I'd expect all parties have their share.

It was claimed there are no non-SF sock puppets. That's just not believable. That's what I'm saying.

We believe those closed were SF sock puppets because they spoke in the SF thread? Did any come out as shinner? We can presume they likely were, but to state no other party affiliated sock puppet exists outside of SF can't be taken seriously. FG are the only party with a leader who pushed for the creation of sock puppet accounts. So it's a strong possibility IMO.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118450794#Comment_118450794

I think you're getting a little paranoid. Francie is one of the most genuine contributors to Boards. And he does get piled on by rabid non-non-SF hacks IMV.

Well if this is a get the shinners sock puppet thread cula bula. Trying to say it's only shinners is a joke and delusional, if anyone really believes it.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118451702#Comment_118451702

Where did I claim there were none? 

right here.

Where's your evidence of SF sock puppetting(?)? Isn't it based on assumptions? I've seen many people criticise FF/FG and be labelled a shinner or a homophobe or racist without any proof.

your posts are just pure whataboutery.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118451702#Comment_118451702

Picking the thread where ten sf ones were uncovered is a hell of a strategy for you to trumpet your "justice for all possible sockpuppets" campaign

We've now five or six posters come in and try to make this about ALL parties or to question whether the SF sockpuppet accounts were in fact unaligned when they were clearly SF aligned

This is exactly the kind of nonsense obfuscation along a single identifiable line that makes it look like there are many SF-run accounts, by the way

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446596#Comment_118446596

aw would you stop harry , ye arnet even good at this game anymore

your own posting history is very clear.

i guess since this is a new account other wise your lucky your not on the list too .......

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118450876#Comment_118450876

A very interesting read.

You picked out the two key points.

Fionn1952

But is there ANY evidence that the sock puppet accounts were Shinners?!?

Sorry I couldn't resist.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118450522#Comment_118450522

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

you have to wonder at that mentality of these people though

tikkahunter

It was fairly obvious what was going on with them accounts , i touched on it many a time , in fact I got a warning from a mod for making an accusation of sock puppeting- lightening quick responses with twitter or social media links when replying to posts. Almost a professional operation .

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452068#Comment_118452068

That was a funny one.

Ordinary lad living all his life in Dublin while working as an intercept pilot for US Homeland Security.

😂😂😂

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118451987#Comment_118451987

Get out, you sock-puppet you!

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452294#Comment_118452294

Park it up at Baldonnel for the evening and zip across to catch the bad guys, drop 'em off at Shannon for "questioning", simps.

This thread is fascinating, what other angle can now be taken to deflect or drag everyone to the same level.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452294#Comment_118452294

Sure its like the guy who claims he is a Conservative gay man but he also has a girlfriend and is androgynous and crossdresses 😂

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118450876#Comment_118450876

While your first point is clear in the conclusion, with the caveat that the abuse of female politicians is mostly at the local and Seanad level not at TD level, I fail to see your second point. Maybe i missed it but I can't see where it points SF supporters as being more toxic, just that more abuse is directed at Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.

Of the most prolific abusive accounts, three communities were determined. These three communities could be characterized by their political affiliations and were most affiliated with Sinn Féin, Fine Gael and Independents respectively. Each community had a handful of key accounts which bridged the majority of the other accounts, however the ‘Sinn Féin’ community had a large proportion of smaller accounts following the key accounts. While there was a distinct character of each community based on their party affiliation, who they directed their abuse towards was similar, with each community directing the majority of their abuse towards Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil politician

Maybe i missed it deeper in the data, i'd be interested if you could point it out to me.

The interesting this about the quoted paragraph from the above is that it indicates that Fine Gael supporters and Independents are abusive to the current government, along side Sinn Fein.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452674#Comment_118452674

You hit it right with this.

"This thread is fascinating, what other angle can now be taken to deflect or drag everyone to the same level."

Unfortunately that is where we are unless the place is cleaned up.

Would any of us admit to someone in the real world that we post on Boards?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452735#Comment_118452735

Further down in the analysis -

"However the largest cluster of toxic accounts was linked with SF support."

Is anyone surprised at this?

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118450368#Comment_118450368

Look, a squirrel!

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452763#Comment_118452763

Oh, I read the paper rather than the tweets, it's stated more baldly there.

Despite the largest group of abusive accounts being linked to SF support, I don't necessarily think it follows that SF supporters are more toxic than others. I think that would probably be overstating the case. This study seems weakest on discerning the motivations and affiliations of toxic tweeters, but much stronger on identifying the targets, for obvious reasons. I don't really think he can stand over his methodology for discerning the affiliation of a toxic tweeters.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452844#Comment_118452844

Fair enough, it may be confirmation bias in what I am seeing in the data.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452844#Comment_118452844

I think it's fair to say that SF supporters may have more religious fervour (and will thus stoop lower), never having seen their party make a balls of things while in government. Their turn is coming though.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452642#Comment_118452642

They'll never catch me and my fifteen accounts.....HQ pays me enough to hide 'em....

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452874#Comment_118452874

That's a possibile interpretation. You might also say that Sinn Fein support has a younger demographic and so are more likely to be on social media.

Or simply that Sinn Fein have a larger support base so will have a higher proportion of toxic members. It's hard to know and the study doesn't really just us much data around supporters from which to draw conclusions.

Why would a larger support base have a higher proportion of toxic members?

CrookedJack

I misspoke, that's the opposite of what i meant. They would have a larger amount in a similar proportion.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118437482#Comment_118437482

Yes, whatever about it, the credibility of 'that' poster is now shot. He spent years proclaiming that he voted for FG in 2011 and was never a SF voter.... only now to have it reveal that he had a separate pro-SF sock-puppet account from back in 2010. Hilarious to be honest.

Also, using GDPR to try and cover his tracks and then recently started a thread about GDPR (only when SF's hands got caught in the cookie jar) bemoaning how GDPR is really a waste of time... again, hilarious.

I never understood why he spent so much effort on this site on his pet hobby horses. Well, at least now we all know a little bit more as to the why.

Well done on the admin team and mods on this one by the way.

markodaly

So how can we stop this from happening again?

Maybe on the more contentious threads in CA, perhaps we can have some extra verification, that you are who you say you are, and not some SF bot with 10 accounts with an axe to grind or a cause to fight..?

Only verified posters are allowed to post in these threads, because even now, after all this, I have suspicions on a few posters that are currently active.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454156#Comment_118454156

He? I'm pretty sure they once claimed to be female. I may be misremembering that.

Pussyhands

What rule did the user break in having so many accounts? As far as I know, having multiple accounts is permitted. i.e If you need to post on personal issues you now need to have a separate account.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454215#Comment_118454215

they weren't using the second account to post in personal issues. they were using the second account to post on the same thread as the first. that is sock-puppetting and not allowed. They also made a big deal out of it only being a one-off mistake and that people accusing him of sock-puppeting were liars. further evidence was uncovered by me that showed it wasn't just a one-off.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454226#Comment_118454226

Where does it say that is not allowed? I checked the CA forum and no rule against it.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454434#Comment_118454434

Do you think it is allowed? Do you think that @Beasty has sitebanned two users for something that is allowed?

Its a wonder theres a court case progressing in the state with the amount of great legal minds wandering in here just asking the hard questions

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454463#Comment_118454463

On reddit you can openly have as many accounts as you like. You can easily switch accounts at the click of a button.

I still don't know what exactly the banned user did. I'm not a participant in that SF thread but I read the comments listed in the OP and it just says they had multiple sock puppet accounts. Were they using multiple accounts at the same time to spread a pro SF narrative? Were they using accounts pretending to be FF/FG, thus making their supporters look bad? Were they responding to their other accounts comments pretending to be a different person? Were they creating a new account each month and then closing the account at the end of the month?

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454463#Comment_118454463

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to show me where it says it's not allowed? You don't really think users should be mind readers and guess what is and isn't allowed right? For example, in the politics forum the standard for posting is higher than in CA. This is laid out in the rules. Now imagine if that rule wasn't in the charter and users went into Politics and made a joke or two and got banned. Would you think that's fair if there was no way for the user to know it wasn't allowed?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455642#Comment_118455642

On reddit you can openly have as many accounts as you like. 

This isn't reddit

Were they using multiple accounts at the same time to spread a pro SF narrative?

Yes

Were they responding to their other accounts comments pretending to be a different person?

Yes

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455676#Comment_118455676

I just found the Ts and Cs

6.2 Accounts and passwords

You cannot create more than one personal profile.

Grand.

Does mean anyone creating an account to post in PI is also breaking the terms and conditions. Ts and Cs should be updated to reflect this.

Chips Lovell

Site terms of use clearly state it you can only operate one account.