Sock-Puppetting and the Current Affairs Forum

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455736#Comment_118455736

There is somewhere in the rules an agreement that you can post anonymously in Personal Issues (and a few other similar fora - Bereavement?), so think that's allowed. Not sure how it works with the new set-up though.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454170#Comment_118454170

That happens a bit, it’s usually to make misogynistic “comments”. Similar to the guys who pretend to be married or have daughters. Sometimes even mixed race children, if they want to get a few racist digs in.

Then you’ve the lads with friends from every colour of the LGBTQI+ “spectrum”, who can be called upon to dismiss any issue surrounding the community. You know, the ones ‘who just want to get on with their lives’ etc.

EmmetSpiceland

Out of sheer curiosity, are there any “suspicious” new/dormant accounts popping up in any SF/FFG threads? Or have they all gone, relatively, quiet.

One would imagine that “The Operator” would want to lay low for a week, or 2, but I don’t think we’re dealing with a normal person and would be very surprised if they haven’t sprang a number of dormant accounts from their slumber already.

I know I, and others, have said this repeatedly but, for the good of the site, vigilance can’t be put solely on the mods and admins, the normal users of this site have to “muck in” and lend a hand here.

If we don’t don’t all work together on this it will just go back to threads being overrun by this puppet master and general, civil, discussion won’t stand a chance.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455736#Comment_118455736

they would have to be updated for sure. I used to think the rule was you couldn’t use the same account at the same time as another.

is it still true that FB’s last sock puppetry was 10 years ago?

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118456072#Comment_118456072

Yeah theres one who claims he is

A conservative gay guy with a girlfriend, doesnt support trans rights, has a trans best friend and is androgynous 🤔

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118451726#Comment_118451726

This was in response to the claim there was no evidence of non-SF sock puppets. There's as much evidence. There was a time you couldn't criticise a FG politician without being labelled homophobic, racist of misogynist. Never one single quote to back up those claims. The latest trend I see is claiming anyone critical of Varadkar and his leak is a supporter of Paddy Cosgrave. These are not normal commentator reactions IMO.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452801#Comment_118452801

If you want to concentrate on shinner sock puppets, which I do believe exist, that's fine. Claiming we don't have any from other parties is baloney. All you have to do is look at the responses any critic of the government gets. Called a shinner being the most popular 😉

The trick is, denounce Sinn Fein, then associate any critic with SF. I couldn't care less if SF never get in, as long as FF/FG are out.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118456437#Comment_118456437

If you have evidence of sock-puppetting present it to the mods. Nothing you have said there is evidence of sock-puppetting. all we know for sure is that the only examples we have conclusive proof for have been SF supporters.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118456437#Comment_118456437

I think what you mean by "evidence" and what everybody else means as evidence are different things.

Just fyi you are currently in a thread that is discussing the actual uncovering of actual sockpuppet troll accounts run by actual prominent SF aligned posters from this site with years of history of SF aligned posting.

That's evidence.

You having had people disagree with you in ways you didnt care for?

Not evidence.

In context you look incredibly foolish to try to equate the two as if we haven't all read this thread and indeed been on the end of this long con for years while trying to discuss politics on this site.

You and the other three or four who have followed in francies footsteps to act all confused and appalled and outraged at a dodgy scheme having been uncovered.

Beasty

Just to clarify, as posted above only one account is permitted. Posters can close one account and open another. In addition, and as already mentioned in this thread, it is possible to use a second account provided you get permission from the Office (Niamh) or one of the Admins. If you have good reason we may permit it, but that would not extend to allowing anyone to sock-puppet. Hence if a second account is permitted and you start posting in a thread the first account is already posting in that's likely to result in both accounts being site-banned. If it looks liken someone has set up a second account without permission to maybe post in a particular forum or thread without sock-puppeting that is likely to the dealt with via a PM to the poster advising them they are in breach of site rules and asking them which one they wish to use. They may also be advised to close one of them, but that option is not yet available to users on this platform so we may ask them to contact the office

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118456437#Comment_118456437

There is no evidence of any non-SF sock puppets.

All you are posting is evidence of posters you disagree with or dislike.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118456135#Comment_118456135

If someone abandons one account and opens up a new one that will normally not be an issue so long as the poster does not go back to the first one. That's even more relevant now that posters do not yet have the ability to close accounts themselves

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118456122#Comment_118456122

If you take a look at the Biden/Trump threads OP messages, most of the bans in there resulted in the poster disappearing and a similar "brand new" poster showing up a few days later. They weren't even site or forums bans, but if they can't bash Biden or laud Trump, what's the point of the site.

I only discovered this thread yesterday and read it all last night

Its been an eye opener but not surprising

The McMurphy account said a number of times in the CA threads that he was a long standing mod on the site and the admins will tell you who

Was that a lie ?

Was the person behind the McMurphy account a Mod here ?

Full disclosure: like one or two others in this thread,I am a retired mod here

One of the reasons I quietly stepped down was because, the mod forum at the time had a sub forum called the reported posts forum

I thought this was a really bad idea because every reported post generated a thread that all 600 plus mods at the time could see

Previously only the mods of a forum and admins Could see a report

I believed because of the number of mods,information was leaking to posters in fora about their posts being reported and who reported them

It was inevitable

Does this sub forum still exist ?

Beasty

The McMurphy account was never a mod. That account was created in 2017.

I have no idea if they were under a prior existence. If so they would have lost access to reports when they ceased to be a mod.

All current mods can see all reports. That was also the case on the old platform, although on that platform it was clear which forum specific reports related to as it was stated in the thread title in the reported post forum. The thread title is shown.

There is no such wording on the new platform and we actually have to guess which reports relate to forums we mod. It's relatively easy for the two of us actively modding CA and Coronavirus forums as reports across those two forums are more voluminous than for any other. Equally I will read reports from a couple of other forums where I know there are no active mods around and indeed will pick up reports of spammers and the like. Indeed it's only reports from forums such as Soccer where there are unlikely to be any spammers and certain other sports forums where I will typically ignore reports as they are very easy to spot

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462815#Comment_118462815

He/she posted under Alf Stewart. prior to the McMurphy/Johnny Dogs account, and as Banjo String for a number of years before that one. No doubt there were others as well

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463074#Comment_118463074

I think the poster is confusing accounts.

There was a mod - For Real or For Reals - of that political persuasion who is still around in a different guise but it is not linked to my knowledge to those accounts.

Beasty

I've been able to track back around 16 years and am fairly confident the person behind the McMurphy account has not been a mod during that time

It was a lie so,like so many other things

I wouldn't blame anyone for looking back thinking they were involved in a farce posting in those CA politics threads

I certainly do

EmmetSpiceland

Just for clarification, should we be reporting the, extremely, pro SF users who’ve recently “sprung up” in the SF, or anti-FFG, threads with, previously, dormant accounts and a couple of hundred posts or are the mods and admins checking themselves?

There are also some fairly new accounts singing from that same hymn sheet. My “concern” with these is that they are sock puppet accounts who managed to avoid the cull.

Furze99

Had a few 'run ins' with McMurphy but it was very obvious that s/he was a SF mouthpiece and best viewed/ ignored in only that way. There's more of them and not just confined to SF, though I reckon they are the most organised in this regard.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118476512#Comment_118476512

Please report any suspicious activity

Thanks

gozunda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118438550#Comment_118438550

Thanks for the detail beasty on this. You just got to love political shenanigans.

Out of interest on the whole system change on accumulated points - does that mean accumulated warnings / infraction points on the old system have effectively vanished into the ether?

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478359#Comment_118478359

Points only lasted for a set period, and they were pretty irrelevant on the old platform. They are much more relevant on the new platform as 5 "active" points result in a system-generated siteban

But yes, we do not currently have any of the "old" records of yellows, reds and bans against users. I don't know if we'll ever get that back. We do have some discussions which highlighted issues from certain posters, but even they are not so easily searchable

I've generally taken the approach of assuming a clean slate when applying sanctions since the platform changeover, except in certain cases where posters had proven themselves problems in particular forums which resulted in permanent bans from those forums. If I am aware a poster was permanently banned from a forum I will re-instate that ban if I see them posting there again (for the forums where I have mod responsibilities)

rdwight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426377#Comment_118426377

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426406#Comment_118426406

Not sure it stinks but certainly very curious.

I seem to remember Francie posting that the Feb 2020 election was when the scales fell from his eyes and he voted Sinn Fein for the first time. Now it turns out that he has basically been in the boards.ie equivalent of witness protection because his posting history under his previous identity was such as to draw accusations of being a shinnerbot.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118456135#Comment_118456135

From best of my knowledge,his sock-puppeting wasnt even in current affaird forum

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118497512#Comment_118497512

The current affairs forum didn’t exist back then.

do you think it matters where he was sock-puppet img?

Beasty

To be clear FB's sock puppeting was very limited. He is no here to respond to anything so can we drop further discussion of him

Jinglejangle69

Wow.

I knew it.

Was banned numerous times for the smallest of things on the SF thread.

I knew it stank. What a joke.

EmmetSpiceland

It doesn’t seem to have done much to limit their “presence”. Seems to be a number of, prominent, SF posters, both new and recently dormant, going at it all day and night.

Not sure there’s much can be done against such a, mobilised, online force.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601609#Comment_118601609

The government parties have plenty of them too, who circle the bandwagons to defend every lie, leak, cronyism and lockdown party!

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604960#Comment_118604960

There have only two incidents of sock-puppetting identified.

One was quite serious, involving ten accounts over a period of nine months, directly supporting a Sinn Fein agenda. The second was relatively minor in comparison, but involved a long-time SF supporter, who had some minor sock-puppetting around a decade ago.

Neither of them involved government parties. Take from that what you will.

blackwhite

McM and his multiple accounts were only caught out by him using one account to reply to a post addressed to a different account.

That sparked an investigation by Beasty, and credit to him for then unravelling as much as he did, but it does highlight the worrying point that unless the multi-accounters trip themselves up then there's not really a whole lot happening to prevent it.

There's a fairly obvious case of a poster who rage-quit with a previous account at the start of last summer, then returned with two accounts later in the year. One of those appears to have stopped posting in the last 2/3 months - but they spent 6 months happily running 2 accounts, sometimes on the same thread, and nothing ever done about it.

It'll continue ad infitum because those co-ordinating it know exactly how hamstrung the mod/admin teams are in terms of tools available to catch this sort of stuff

If a lad is used to spending 17 hours a day on this site, Twitter, and the Journal comments section then a ban is going to hit them hard. Strong chance of a relapse by signing up again.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610108#Comment_118610108

JohnnyFlash passed away?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609415#Comment_118609415

No i didn't.

I'm declaring that there are rabid government party supporters posting. I don't see why we should only be wary of those critical or alledged shinners.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609420#Comment_118609420

We don't know unless the mod tells us. I do not believe it would only be government critics. Do you?

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611293#Comment_118611293

So you've clear evidence of pro-SF sock-puppeting, no evidence of pro-gov sock-puppeting (presumably, otherwise you'd have presented it), and the point you think is important to make is we should be wary of pro-gov actors?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611298#Comment_118611298

what we do know is that the only people caught were SF supporters. While there are no doubt many shills for all parties it is only SF supporters that have been caught sock-puppeting. that is all we do know.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611293#Comment_118611293

you're the fifth or sixth poster to muse this on this thread.

(well- the fifth or sixth login, I guess I should say)

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611374#Comment_118611374

So the discussion stops there? No worries. All I know is we still have tag teaming accounts mostly in the SF thread. But they are critical of SF. Lots and lots of people have issues with government policy.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611507#Comment_118611507

If you have evidence of sock-puppeting then present it to the mods. that is the process. i'm not sure what speculating achieves apart from making SF supporters feel better when they say "It isn't just us". Or maybe SF supporters are not smart enough to get away with it. I admit I do enjoy the irony of discussing this with a relatively new account.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610915#Comment_118610915

Sorry, B, I thought someone would have told you. I’m not going to try “searching” for the posts talking about it.

From what I gather it was very sudden. Nothing drawn out. There were some jokes about him “doing an Elvis”, which I’d say he would have liked.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611537#Comment_118611537

Yeah, it’s been a bit blatant, and obvious, since the “sock puppets” have been removed.

New, and dormant, accounts springing up spouting the same, populist, pro-SF drivel. Best just to not “engage” and do your best to ignore them.

Astartes

Oh ok so all sympathetic SF posters are sock puppets.. I suppose it's comforting delusion to cling to until polling day lol

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611808#Comment_118611808

can you quote the post that said that?

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611808#Comment_118611808

You need to review your logic - All sock-puppets thus far have been pro-SF, no one is suggesting that the inverse is true.

I do cast a jaundiced eye at clearly pro-SF posters who come to this thread to warn about potential, but unevidenced, pro-gov sock-puppetting while in no way acknowledging the above fact. Is this not a rational thought processes? do you disagree with it?

Shield

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611748#Comment_118611748

Mod: In case you missed it, @Beasty advised on 14/02 to report any such accounts to him or @Mickeroo or @Neyite or any other active admin.

This discussion seems to be going around in circles, and the main issue has been identified and dealt with. There's some substance in forming a breakout discussion with suggestions on how such behaviour could be detected and reported effectively while mod tools are still in development. I'll leave that up to yourselves but bear in mind this thread is lurching towards being closed.

-Shield.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611723#Comment_118611723

That's very sad, didn't know him outside of boards, but he had a great sense of humour on it.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611949#Comment_118611949

To be honest, S, this issue can’t just be “swept under the rug”. As the user @blackwhite said above, the Big 10 pro-SF sock puppeteer was found through Beasty’s hard work. The “mod tools” aren’t much use, it would seem.

I could report, and have, users in this very thread who are remarkably similar to that McMurphy user. It’s like they aren’t even trying to hide it because, more than likely, they feel like they don’t have to.

The point needs to be driven home that all new, and, recently dormant, accounts who jump straight into threads pushing a pro-SF “agenda” should be viewed with nothing but suspicion and incredulity. Users should be encouraged to avoid engaging with them.

I have to agree that it's going to be a big ask from mods, after years of having to put up with SF sock puppets all over the place but never allowed to mention the SF sock puppets all over the place, after SF sock puppets have indeed been found all over the place, to please let's not act like SF sock puppets have been all over the place and likely are back already

will the mods give due weight to this event in future modding or will mods just try to continue as if this was an "all sides" issue?

yes, there's loads of SF voters and anti-govt posters on boards, course there are (it's not a very good govt) but I don't believe a genuine poster can read this thread and still be asking innocently stupid questions like "oh why isn't it both sides?" after its been clear from the start and answered several times.

this type of obvious coordinated rubbish deflection will rightly be considered deeply sus from now on (in fact it always was, we just were told time and again by mods to shush up)