Social housing in the estate

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122903#Comment_120122903

No idea what you’re on about.

I just seen you trying to rubbish claims the majority of applicants are unemployed.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122896#Comment_120122896

No it wasn't answered. What was answered was the question you wanted to be asked, not the one that was asked. The questions they asked were:

Will you buy a property when you don't know where social housing is located?

and

How to find out where social houses are build or allocated in your estate?

Not "can I be guaranteed good neighbours?"

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122903#Comment_120122903

Where did I say all? In your own time. Yet again you've made up stuff I've said. Is that literally all you can do?

Fred Astaire

Anyway, my point was not to bash social housing applicants or tenants, merely to point out that for the biggest purchase of somebodies entire life, they would be an absolute idiot not to have the social housing element factoring into their decision.

Social housing tenants are more likely to be a problem than outright owners. If people are comfortable taking on that risk then good for them. If they have any doubts or worries then my advice would be to avoid, avoid, avoid new builds.

With a 20 percent part 5 in place now, you're going to have one in touching distance.

And avoid new builds, not just for the social housing element either as I've touched on, the new builds are all going to be overrun with teenagers in 15 years when all the people buying now have their kids at the same time. Far, far better to have a more mature estate with a far more mixed and varied age profile.

Better to avoid obvious points of congregation, better to make repeated checks on the estates at night on Friday and Sat especially. Listen out for dogs barking incessently.

Obviously there are a load of other issues that come with 2nd hand properties, getting the BER up, unexpected hidden issues and whatnot, but better have that to deal with rather than issues you can do nothing about.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122756#Comment_120122756

Uh..

So, minimum wage is actually €10.50 last year, so it would be €44,920. But I’ve never known a soul to work 52 weeks out of a year, earn €45k between the two and pay no tax.

The taxable income at 20% we’ll say so €9k in tax. That’s down to €36k. Of course we’re just taking PAYE no mention of PRSI, USC & any savings schemes. We’ll be generous and say €2k for all those a grand each, take home pay a year is now €34k. Look at that 3k under the limit!

Even if we take 2023 @ €11.30 it’s €37,608 a year after 20% tax and €35k after the very light PRSI, USC etc.

So you were saying something about all social housing recipients being unemployed?

i personally know more of them with full time jobs. I’m sure you know scarce few but won’t stop you spouting shite.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123053#Comment_120123053

I would say that there are plenty who earn more than the limit. Is it not the case that once they get the house, they aren't kicked out if they start earning more later.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123053#Comment_120123053

1. I never mentioned all social housing recipents being unemployed. If you can point out where I said that, like I asked your aul buddy who has gone very quiet too, please do.
2. We literally have a government report a few posts up which says the majority of social housing applicants are unemployed. I'll link it again for your delicate sensibilities, because clearly you couldn't be bothered to read in your haste to post up the most embarassing example of payroll accounting I've seen, possibly ever. https://assets.gov.ie/213189/9a3039aa-e041-40f7-9831-f05d54890ae7.pdf
3. In that report just 19 percent of applicants generate their income from employment only.
4. The calculations you've just posted are absolutely, categorically, hilariously wrong. The total tax (that's literally everything - Income Tax, PRSI, USC) on 10.50 p/h @ 40 hours per week last year would be approximately 1.7k. Which would leave you at a net position for 2 people at 19.3k each, so 38.6k combined, which is still over the income limit in every LA in Ireland. Where in the bloody hell are you getting your figure from? Jesus Christ don't ever work in payroll! You think take home pay on 21k a year is 17k? Are you on drugs? LOL.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123089#Comment_120123089

That is the case, so there could very well be a huge cohort of the majority unemployed applicants who decide that all of a sudden the workplace is for them. Unlikely, but possible, sure. More likely there is a small portion who get into work after getting their home.

I'd call complete and utter b*llshit on that poster knowing more in full time employment than not though in social housing - given 59% of applicants get their income from social Welfare only and just 19% from employment only. Seems very very unlikely that there would be a cataclysmic shift in those percentiles after people get housed.

All of this is a stupid tangent anyway. If you're buying a house be wary of social housing. Sometimes you might be able to find out where they are. If not, going forward with new builds presume a social house is always in touching distance given the part 5 is now 20%. If the person has decided they are willing to deal with the potential issues good for them. Quite possible though that a number of first time buyers are just plain unaware of these situations - it helps to have knowledge, it's good to be aware and I'm quite sure some people in the future will stumble on this thread and be thankful they did.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122912#Comment_120122912

Unfortunately in lots of low-paid jobs, it's rare to get a 40 hours per week over the full year. Lots of them are seasonal, and lots of workers are casual on X's and O's as a result. Childcare would cost more than one would earn, so often only on member of a couple will be working with the other part-time at best.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123091#Comment_120123091

Where are you getting your income limits from?

South Dublin County Council:

Couple with no children - €42k - net.

How often does this topic come up on Boards? Once a month?

It's time people got used to the idea that integrated social housing is not going away.

Zelaouz

OP if it really bothers you you can check it on the planning application for the development. Usually in the first couple of correspondences between developer and county/City Council.

cruizer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123175#Comment_120123175

To be fair to that poster they said the figures were from DCC which have lower limits, they may have cherry picked DCC because it has low limits but they weren't wrong. https://www.dublincity.ie/residential/housing/i-am-looking-home/i-want-apply-council-home

What I think they may have missed is that a lot of applicants will be 1 full time worker and 1 part-time, or single parents working full or part-time, that said the report they linked does state the in 2020 54% of main applicants are unemployed. Also says that about 70% are single applicants with 0-2 kids, so not an unemployed couple of wasters.

Kurooi

You're buying a house, stake the area out. Have a few walks around different days different times especially evenings.

Social housing itself isn't an issue. It's anti social behaviour, and that can happen regardless.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123456#Comment_120123456

What the poster said was:

The calculations you've just posted are absolutely, categorically, hilariously wrong. The total tax (that's literally everything - Income Tax, PRSI, USC) on 10.50 p/h @ 40 hours per week last year would be approximately 1.7k. Which would leave you at a net position for 2 people at 19.3k each, so 38.6k combined, which is still over the income limit in every LA in Ireland. Where in the bloody hell are you getting your figure from? Jesus Christ don't ever work in payroll! You think take home pay on 21k a year is 17k? Are you on drugs? LOL.

Which is incorrect.

As an aside, Tuath and Clúid Housing, also providers of social housing, have income limits of up to €53k per annum, (net) to apply for their cost rental housing.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123389#Comment_120123389

The OP was a year ago. I hope they didn't delay waiting for boards.ie consensus.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123091#Comment_120123091

You’re laughing at me but you tried to claim that if you’re working not only are you working 40 hours a week 52 weeks a year, but you also apparently get paid cash in hand or don’t pay any tax.

My numbers were wrong, okay, fair enough but that’s irrelevant because the numbers are referring to some sort of fantasy land where low income workers are all tax free and working round the clock.

i paid nearly €2k in tax usc etc on €10k last year (before moving job) so I guess revenue owes me some money? Thanks.

Anyway, besides that, the income limits are a piss take yes. Same for rent allowance/HAP, completely unrealistic. But did you know that a lot of people actually avoid working until they get social housing? The system is broken and people game the system.

I don’t take any exception to the fact you make claims that social housing tenants can be knackers. They can be. But so can private renters and home owners. I don’t care if you think I’m BSing either— I know more people who are working and in social housing than who are unemployed. That’s 4-5 employed to 1 unemployed off the top of my head.

granted 3 of them are single parents with 2 or more kids so a bit different to the child free couple who just don’t have jobs. Point being in this climate and the housing crisis we’re currently in to pigeon hole all social housing tenants (or the majority) as just wasters is ridiculous and just plain untrue. There’s a culture in Ireland (and boards especially) to piss all over the cornflakes of anyone who is on the welfare. I agree with bashing lazy scammers who just can’t be bothered to lift a finger collecting the dole every week, I’m sick as anyone else paying tax to fund their laziness but you don’t see me sitting here decrying everyone as a waster.

oh actually there’s 6 people I know who are social housing tenants but not unemployed. My neighbours both work. One is a childminder the other works in a quarry. But sure, they’re all lazy knackers.

And believe it or not— yes most people DO look for work/courses after getting in the door of the council house. The limits stop applying once you get the house all that changes is how much rent you pay.

And the fact is in most cases with lower incomes it’s the only economical way to ensure permanent living space. I wouldn’t knock anyone for doing it especially with the current rental market.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123389#Comment_120123389

That can change though, I know of some new mixed house/apartment developments where the houses were sold first at the usual crazy prices, with some social housing. Then the entire apartment blocks in the development and later house phases were bought by a housing body for social housing. So the net result must be more like 80 or 90% social housing. Nothwithstanding any worries people may or may not have about behaviour etc., killing yourself working to pay a mortgage on a 700k for a house, while living in the middle of a large group that are getting their place for next to nothing is going to be a tough one to swallow for most. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but one to consider when buying.

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123053#Comment_120123053

I thonk they would be on HAP? Also socially assisted but not social housing per se.

maninasia

Broken and unfair system indeed.

victor8600

killing yourself working to pay a mortgage on a 700k for a house, while living in the middle of a large group that are getting their place for next to nothing is going to be a tough one to swallow for most

Don't kill yourself trying to afford something beyond your means. Buy a cheaper house and you can laugh at those unfortunate social housing tenants that could have got a house that cost €700K, but were allocated a miserable €350K house and are forced to live near you.

HerrKuehn

No need to try and figure out the number of unemployed on the social housing list. All this data is provided: https://assets.gov.ie/219921/a5419e65-a5ff-4c84-80de-1f18919e0c73.pdf

The statistics aren't great for those trying to claim that most a re working.

e.g.

In Fingal, you have an 12% chance of the main applicant being employed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123864#Comment_120123864

Who?

yourdeadwright

You hear a lot of nonsense on the radio & social media but in real life whats it like

If an Irish family with lets say 2 kids, who say who both work never been on the dole & don't claim any benefits became homeless & neded a social house was they had no where to go & and can't afford your average rental prices ,

How long would they likely wait to be housed ?

Iv heard people say 10 years , iv also heard people say they presented themselves to there local authority & got housed in a few days ,

Surely its people like that that should get priority , People who are in work are willing to work , no convictions , not hand outs for life type , just need a home to stay in while they get back on there feet again ,

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123910#Comment_120123910

Would that not be dominated by a strategy of not working at all and getting a house worth at least 350k with a chance of one worth 700k?

In my opinion, the income limit for social housing is far too low. It is a barrier to some taking up full employment, or actively trying to progress up the ladder in a career.

Many applicants would take up work, or work more hours, but realise that if their earnings go one euro over the housing authority's income limit, then they are off the list and stuck at the mercy of the private rental market.

The local authorities do re-check eligibility based on income periodically, and again before allocating a tenancy and there is no wiggle room allowed on the limits.

These are not lazy people. They're not wasters. They're just not high earners. and never will be. These people are caught between the rock of if they earn too much, they won't qualify for social housing (or HAP) but they still earn to little to qualify for a mortgage. Single people in particular, will struggle with this.

So in reality, they wait it out for the social house, and then push forward with the career. I've seen it happen many times.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124342#Comment_120124342

The only problem is if the limit is raised more people fall into the category & there is already not enough houses to go around,

But i agree with the idea ,People need a home and space to breath financially to have the ability to go & up skill , Also lots of people are afraid to leave low paying steady jobs just encase the new job doesn't work out & they are left with nothing ,Its a huge jump form going to just making it by to having nothing at all & the fear of that can stop improvement in people,

I know i guys who was on HAP & he got offered a 10k promotion at work that he had to refuse as it wasn't worth his while as he'd lose his HAP & be down 5 k in total .

,

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124342#Comment_120124342

The current system has perverse incentives to not work. We can see the list in urban areas now being dominated by low work intensity households (as per the document linked above). I don't think it is going to work out well in the medium term. The proportion of households not working in these new housing estates will actually be higher than traditional council housing estates from the 80's. At that time, at least in my experience, most households were working.

I think we should do away entire with the traditional social housing list. There should be purpose built housing estates which are 50/50 affordable homes and low income working households. The low income households would have to show a history of working over the last 5 years or so. Those with disabilities and unable to work could be accommodated in this system. For the others, those currently at the top of the list in urban areas, we would still have HAP. The privilege of a long term home would be for those working.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124703#Comment_120124703

All you have to do now is get some brave politicians to put this forward two years before an election!

You would need to construct all these new houses with extra strong roofing to withstand droppings from the flying pigs in this future world.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124912#Comment_120124912

Oh, I know. They would rather slightly piss off the majority rather than upset the least deserving in the state. I think it could actually be a winner though, if it was framed in the right way. Basically resources would be allocated towards building these new "workers" estates. It would create the right incentives for people to go out and get a job. There would be a greater number of affordable homes. So a lot of people would benefit.

In reality though we are more likely to get an increase in the Christmas bonus for long term unemployed.