Social housing in the estate

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124982#Comment_120124982

I can't see it. You have 3 main parties, the 'Crash The Market Party', favored by people who can't afford property, and two 'Milk The Market Parties', that due to a 100 year old civil war history are going to split people that otherwise mostly agree on policies roughly 50/50.

The MTM parties are currently trying to win over some CTM voters by introducing policies that are not good for investment or long term stability and as you put it 'mildly piss off their voters'. What they are relying on is that MTM voters, whether mildly or even fully pissed off, will never vote for the CTM party.

So any short term strategy that doesn't at least pretend to try to crash the market or threatens not to give everyone a free house at the moment is not politically astute for any party. This is why long term interests in the common good shouldn't be controlled by politicians that have to worry about losing their jobs every election. Interest rate decisions are not trusted to politicians the world over because of these risks, central banks are independent.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120125056#Comment_120125056

Good assessment, I don't disagree with any of that. To follow on with your terminology, I would suggest a strategy of "a free house for workers" for the MTM parties.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120125427#Comment_120125427

Put yourself forward at the next election, you'll get my vote!

SwimClub

Whats needed is to communicate a long term plan that:

A. property prices are going to be stable and go up with inflation (to encourage investment)

B. houses will be affordable (to get political support)

If they announce B. alone and crash the market no-one will invest to provide the supply needed.

If they announce A. alone no-one who wants B will vote for them in two years because housing stays unaffordable.

One way out is that price growth is held behind inflation for a while and all property investors are compensated with subsidies or tax breaks (to keep them in/get them to invest). Then when some affordability criteria (average price as an average salary multiple) is hit, when supply exceeds demand, the subsidies are removed, but it would need to be managed closely by some independent policy body reports on the housing market, ESRI combined with ECB. In parallel they would need to look at a number of issues around land hoarding, planning, and how to efficiently manage social housing.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122960#Comment_120122960

And avoid new builds, not just for the social housing element either as I've touched on, the new builds are all going to be overrun with teenagers in 15 years when all the people buying now have their kids at the same time. Far, far better to have a more mature estate with a far more mixed and varied age profile.

You keep going on about this. But you don't know if the OP has a family or plans on having one

We bought a house in a new estate when I eldest was born, we went on to have three more.

Most of the houses in the estate were bought by young couples who like us went on to have kids.

Our kids spent countless hours playing inside and outside with the other kids the same age in the estate.

Most are teens now, but instead of roaming the place bored they are mainly indoors on video consoles, playing online with the very same friends they spent years playing outside with.

I'd hate to have my kids grow up in an estate where they were the wrong age profile.

DownByTheGarden

I lived in 2 council estates and one mixed between private and social in my life.

One of the estates was really lovely (its not so nice now about 25 years later). We never had any trouble in any of those places personally, but saw plenty of trouble. All in all 99% of the people who lived in the places i lived in were lovely.

Would I buy a house now where I thought I was potentially going to be living next door to a social house. Not on your nelly.

Get stuck living next to one of the 1% and your life will be miserable.

You may be lucky and the neighbors will be lovely, but try to sell a house next door to a social house and you will struggle.

The day you buy is the day you sell. Thats very good advise.

Dolbhad

I grew up in a Council estate and it was a great childhood with little trouble. However it’s been extended twice (in 2012 and 2021) and I wouldn’t live there now.

Those in social housing in late 80’s/early 90’s is very different to now. My parents and neighbours all worked. Mostly in trade who would have bouts of unemployment or in low skilled jobs. But everyone worked

The newer parts are the “single parent” but of course the father of the kids live there and no one seems to work. So of course it’s parties most evenings in summers etc. Alot of fighting and arguing amongst them.

I really feel for my parents and that older part of estate as they head towards 70. The kids are out all day with no supervision.

So I understand someone being concerned about social housing next to them. Builder doesn’t have to tell you but you can look up the planning file and if an agreement is in place by the time your signing contracts, it should show where the part v houses are.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120165355#Comment_120165355

This is 100% my experience too, I could have written this myself. In the 80's co.uncil estates were how working class families were housed. Now social housing is how Low Work Intensity families are housed. My parents moved from the estate about 5 years after it was extended and the new type of social tenants moved in. It completely changed the place.

There are details of social housing applicant statistics, I linked the doc earlier. In Fingal, 12% of applicants have someone working. This means if you have a private estate in Fingal, with 100 houses and 20% social housing, there will be 18 families who do not work. This will be much, much higher than council estates in the 80's. There were still plenty of problems in the estates in the 80's, I would say around 5% were fairly problematic neighbours. You will be looking at multiples of that in these housing estates in 5-10 years.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176509#Comment_120176509

Spot on.

In the main estate I grew up in it was 100% social housing. There were really very few who didnt work in the houses (well back in the day it was normal for the men to work and the women to mind the kids). Even the ones who were officially not working had jobs on the side. And all the kids were sent off to look for part time jobs even before leaving school. There was a work ethic that doesnt exist now. Something changed along the way alright, and new people who moved in were allergic to work or something because the only work they would do involved jail time. I still have some friends living there now and visit from time to time. Very few people working in that estate nowadays unless its in criminal enterprises.

Dolbhad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176509#Comment_120176509

That’s a great way of putting it. We were the working class. Yes most mammies stayed at home but you’d generally someone working and most of those I grew up with went to 3rd level. The current policy doesn’t seem in anyway favour a couple who work a low wage job. When the kids are growing up with no one working it creates a cycle I can see where the next generation won’t either.