Man gives birth

thefallingman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118442520#Comment_118442520

I knew he was joking to be fair !

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118442904#Comment_118442904

And tell me o wise sage how a person is supposed to detect “sarcasm” in text on a screen ?

You must be daft in the head if you can’t see how someone saying “that’s hate speech” in a thread like might be taken as then meaning just that.

and it wasn’t sarcasm anyway. CQD was taking the piss. That is the same as sarcasm.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118442912#Comment_118442912

Okay - but I didn’t because there was nothing to suggest he was and it is the comment someone would make seriously in a thread like this

you do realise that this was just a misunderstanding though and that I didn’t criticise, attack, etc CQD

I just asked how the previous comment was hate speech - he responded that it was a joke - I suggested the use of emojis to signify it was meant in jest

I don’t know what I’m supposed to have done that was unfair

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118442520#Comment_118442520

You get to know the posters that are just having a bit of fun. We didn't always have those emojis, and some of us never took to them anyway.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443581#Comment_118443581

Lol 😂🙏😇🤞🤣

SnazzyPig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441806#Comment_118441806

in another case of people not getting the memo -

https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2016/jan/26/earth-totally-flat-conspiracy-bob

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441843#Comment_118441843

men do not have notions or desires to be pregnant

Depends upon who you ask tbh, I certainly wouldn’t define anyone by their desire either to become pregnant, nor their desire to avoid becoming pregnant. This was one of the motivating factors behind my support for the “Childfree by Choice” forum on Boards (not the name I’d have gone with, but y’know, whatever!) - the idea was floated then too that it didn’t make any sense, and it probably still doesn’t make any sense to those people, but to the people who use it, and the people who will use it in the future, it makes perfect sense.

That’s one of the things about this whole discussion - the idea doesn’t make sense to most people. I’ve never hidden the fact that it doesn’t make any sense to me either, and it’s over 35 years now since I was first confronted with the idea. My thoughts are still pretty much the same as yours, but the reaction of these observers, to what they just witnessed with their own eyes, is priceless -

Henig also finished first in the 50-yard freestyle in a time of 22.76. After the race, Henig, who has had surgery to remove his breasts, pulled down the top of his swimsuit, shocking some parents at the meet. 

'I wasn't prepared for that. Everything is messed up. I can't wrap my head around this. The NCAA needs to do something about this. They need to put science into the decision and discussion,' a UPenn parent, who wanted to remain anonymous, told DailyMail.com.

Another parent said: 'A man just crushed the women's team.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10382019/amp/Trans-UPenn-swimmer-Lia-Thomas-wins-200m-freestyle-race-two-seconds.html

I have to admit, I wasn’t prepared for them to pull down their swimsuit either, bit rude! 😳

One of the ideas that particularly bugs me is the idea that anyone thinks either -

a) their proclamations of how other people think are universal, based upon how they themselves think, and

b) they appear to overestimate the value to other people of their opinions, in that they portray themselves as being the victim of an oppressive regime that must be countered by claiming the right of free speech.

If they understand the meaning and implications of both of the above, then they must be able to understand that everyone in society has the same right as they do to freedom of conscience and freedom of expression and so on, and many, many other freedoms which mean that anyone is legitimately entitled to claim they’re whatever sex or gender they profess themselves to be, as opposed to having either their gender or sex decided upon for them, by anyone who is not them.

This isn’t a new concept at all, and by the time I’d heard of this particular case, I was already questioning the idea of the universal application of belief to argue that “everyone thinks this”, or “nobody thinks that” -

https://amp.theguardian.com/science/2008/mar/09/genetics.medicalresearch

From the point of view of ethics in science and medicine, that case threw up all sorts of things that people just hadn’t thought about before, because it wasn’t something which they were affected by personally. It was easier for them to make proclamations for others, from a safe distance, within what they assumed was the majority of people who shared their opinions.

The mention of the PMs interest in stem cell research in that article is also interesting for the fact that it was generally thought at the time that people with CF were sterile, and that in itself wasn’t really a concern, as the idea of them living long enough to start families just wasn’t a consideration. With advances in science and medicine, the idea has now become something of an ethical dilemma, as their life expectancy has also increased dramatically in the intervening years, and fertility treatments have also come a long way since Louise Brown was conceived -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Brown

Sure, not gonna lie, the whole thing is more than just a bit out there, but it’s out there is the point, and people are risking being ridiculed, mocked, derided and discriminated against for putting it out there. So when it comes to people claiming that they’re being silenced because they’re expressing an opinion which they already believe is held by the majority of people in society, their claims of being victimised amount to nothing more than empty rhetoric employed to appeal to people’s sense of judgment. Their opinions certainly aren’t grounded in science, as the purpose of science has never been to suggest that anyone should just accept what they’re being told, by anyone.

Abusing science for political purposes is always a big no-no, as far as I’m concerned. It’s one of the reasons why I am opposed to the proposed sex education bill in it’s current form -

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2018/34/

Bill entitled an Act to guarantee the right of students to receive factual and objective relationships and sexuality education without regard to the characteristic spirit of the school

It’s the “without regard to the characteristic spirit of the school” bit that I have an issue with. I don’t have an issue with the information itself being disseminated and delivered in schools which would deliver that type of education anyway, it’s the idea of trying to undermine the characteristic spirit of schools which would not deliver that type of education, is the issue, and the sponsors of the bill know it too - it’s precisely why they put that stipulation in the bill.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443581#Comment_118443581

Yes and others wouldn’t know posters

so the misunderstandings happen

I don’t see why people used to the boards can’t understand that

nothing bad happened and no got hurt

joseywhales

Is this what happens if you taste it?

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118444357#Comment_118444357

"If they understand the meaning and implications of both of the above, then they must be able to understand that everyone in society has the same right as they do to freedom of conscience and freedom of expression and so on, and many, many other freedoms which mean that anyone is legitimately entitled to claim they’re whatever sex or gender they profess themselves to be, as opposed to having either their gender or sex decided upon for them, by anyone who is not them."

Sure. Free speech means you are allowed to make claims like that, such as: you can be whatever sex you want to be. So, you can't be put in jail for making a claim like that. But, that doesn't make the claim true.

Oranage2

Absolute madness, thankfully this doesn't affect me and I keep my real life opinions to myself but let's call a Spade a Spade, I like starwars but I'd be called out immediately if I started transforming myself as Darth Vader.

Woman gives birth

/Thread

*This nonsense is absolutely stupid.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446361#Comment_118446361

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446864#Comment_118446864

Unfortunately, this is going to get far, far worse before it gets better.

The other side of this argument believe that having enough empathy for someone is sufficient to prove their outlandish claims. And, as this thread has shown, they will go to any lengths to mentally crowbar anti-reality onto everyone else, with linguistic acrobatics that get worse over time.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446864#Comment_118446864

Can't wait till there is the headline "Woman gives birth", that would be something to get excited about...

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118449385#Comment_118449385

Have you seen the film Children of Men?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118451595#Comment_118451595

Good call, certainly a better story than Y: The Last Man anyway, reminded me of The Handmaids Tale -

Y: The Last Man takes place in a post-apocalyptic world where a mysterious cataclysmic event simultaneously killed every mammal with a Y chromosome but for one man – Yorick Brown (Ben Schnetzer) – and his male pet monkey Ampersand. The series follows Yorick as he traverses the new world, as its survivors struggle with their losses and attempt to restore world society—led by Yorick's mother, who is the new U.S. President, Jennifer Brown (Diane Lane).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%3A_The_Last_Man_%28TV_series%29

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439444#Comment_118439444

Science is only for fascists.

Solidarity beats science.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118451946#Comment_118451946

And sympathy/ empathy (can’t tell the difference).

If you aren’t a supporter it means you’re a hater.

MilkyToast

So. I read the article.

The subject of it (Ash) was taking cross-sex hormones and figured that meant that Ash couldn't get pregnant. But it turns out Ash could get pregnant, and when Ash found out, Ash stopped taking cross-sex hormones in order to carry the baby.

Ash met Ash's current husband when Ash was still pregnant, and they married four months after the baby was born.

Ash might want to have more children in the future, so is putting off the completion of Ash's transition (presumably a vaginectomy and metoidioplasty or phalloplasty) until Ash has finished having all the children Ash wants.

Aside from a bit of apparent internalised misogyny on Ash's part, I don't really see any reason for outrage. There's no evidence that Ash has endangered the child in any way and they're both consenting adults living their lives in the way they want to. Someone else's plastic surgery doesn't concern me.

Someone mentioned the effects of prior cross-sex hormones on the pregnancy, but I doubt that would be a huge problem. Biology is a beast, it doesn't conform to gender ideology, and it roars back very quickly when cross-sex hormones are stopped for any reason, even if there are some changes (facial hair, voice, etc.) which are permanent. So provided that testosterone injections haven't damaged the female reproductive organs beyond repair, the hormone profile during pregnancy should be fine. And if we're realistic, there's no way a study into the effect of cross-sex hormone therapy on trans men's pregnancies is going to be funded right now. Not while universities are still cowering at Twitter mobs.

I don't personally ascribe to any supernatural beliefs, be it gods, ghosts or gendered souls, so I don't believe Ash is a man and I won't say that men can get pregnant to placate ideologues, much like I won't pray to placate my religious aunt.

But Ash believes that Ash is a man, so Ash can act accordingly. I hope they'll remain happy together and maintain a stable home for their kid(s).

That is an incredibly cute kid.

And an outrage-baiting headline. Have the DM ever published an ARTICLE without at least ONE word written in CAPS?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

A hundred and forty odd posts into a transgender thread and no threadbans - there's hope for AH yet!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452833#Comment_118452833

For once, we agree. 🙂

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118449385#Comment_118449385

(After Kate Middelton gave birth)

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452833#Comment_118452833

Which is pretty amazing indeed, especially considering its full of the exact same bullshit and prejudice as every other thread on the subject.

But meh who cates really, it's just boards.ie

Potential-Monke

I think it's now scarier that CQD's statement can (and I can see how) be taken as being serious. That's the world we live in, when a "That's hate speech" comment would previously have been obviously in jest, it is no longer possible to just assume that. And yeah, that's basically why the worlds highest paid author has been cancelled, for having the scientific opinion.

*Gary Jules piano*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118453389#Comment_118453389

Facts aren't bullshit; they're just the facts.

The fact that you believe that saying women have babies is "bullshit" shows how far the rot has sunk.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460348#Comment_118460348

Quote where I said that or withdraw the remark. As usual you just seem to want to put words in people's mouths and/or lack the ability to appreciate nuance or other people's opinions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460479#Comment_118460479

The entire debate on this thread is about two groups of ideas: the idea that only women can give birth versus the idea that men and women can equally give birth.

The latter idea is crackers, and you believe it.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460688#Comment_118460688

I believe you are having trouble understanding basic statements. No wonder you find this difficult.

You stated that I believe stating "women have babies" is bullshit. This was clearly not the case.

The bullshit I referred to is the usual open mockery of trans people.

I find the rest of this thread boring at best and haven't bothered with it really.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461070#Comment_118461070

You believe that men can give birth though, right?