Anyone thinking of emigrating?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118451588#Comment_118451588

well ok, I get Canada. I’m sad I didn’t emigrate there tbh. If people are doing better and buying houses in the U.K., that’s unusual. Wages are lower there except perhaps London. House prices are high in the south. Fuel is expensive, taxes are high. In Spain wages are low, but living costs are low.

the problem with low wages, even if the living costs are low, is that you will compare to what you could get in Ireland.

Mister Vain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462014#Comment_118462014

If I was on 50k I'd be living in a savage apartment in Maynooth and still have plenty of disposable income.

I see sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461688#Comment_118461688

Does the NHR scheme mean you'd pay income tax in the country you're company is in and them none in Portugal? Thanks

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462158#Comment_118462158

If they used to be Irish then they're ex-Pats.

Captain Barnacles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462015#Comment_118462015

I live just outside Barcelona, the weather only gets too hot in mid June -> Mid/late August ... and even then I just avoid going out at the hottest parts of the day, early mornings and evenings are gorgeous...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462035#Comment_118462035

Can I elaborate on the U.K. seeing living standards decline. Sure.

https://www.mylondon.news/news/uk-world-news/families-warned-pay-extra-1200-22593745

and in fact U.K. salaries are not expected to rise this decade. As far as I recall it’s been similar since 2008

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462158#Comment_118462158

Depends on how long they stay.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462387#Comment_118462387

I love Barcelona. Been going there since the mid 90's and yes the evenings are great. Drinking a few beers after dinner (at 10 o'clock LOL...Never understood that) is lovely.

The heat during the day in the summer is bloody awful though. One year I was there it reached about 37 degrees or something like that. Absolutely Horrible. I just couldn't live somewhere like that.

irishguitarlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462623#Comment_118462623

I've been living in Seville for nearly 7 years and it's got up to 44/45 degrees here before. It's too hot in July/August but I still love living here.

Captain Barnacles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462711#Comment_118462711

Sevilla one year in September was the hottest I've experienced, was nuts, we arrived around 1PM and were literally the only dopes on the street - and mad dogs of course :D.

From around 7.30pm it was bearable.. lovely city tho ... and cheap!

Went again one year in March and was just perfect...

Lived in the US for 15 years. Did my best to integrate and immerse myself. But every trip back home, it was harder and harder when leaving. The politics in the country is baffling at times and took its toll on me in the recent years (though Ireland isn't much better at the minute!).

Moved back home to be with my parents in rural Ireland. Never bothered about how much I earn, just enough to get by and a simple life. Suppose it would be different if I had kids. Best move I ever made to come back. Good luck to anyone contemplating a change. Remember your worth and that nothing is worth risking your health and sanity over!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118453107#Comment_118453107

So right about the food... much higher quality standards, local, traceable.

Without wanting to sound like a Nazi, Ireland has some beautiful, rich, black soil. You don't get that everywhere.. esp in places where the sun has baked the bejeezus out of it!

irishguitarlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462734#Comment_118462734

Yeah I always recommend from October to May for people to visit. You should see the city at weekends in July and August, almost completely empty, everyone is at the beach. But I agree it's a lovely city and the people are fantastic, great sense of humour and love a good laugh.

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462596#Comment_118462596

Historically, it depended more on the colour of their skin and the language they spoke.

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462802#Comment_118462802

Great Post and I think if more had the realisation that all you really need is enough to keep you going and keep life simple there would be a lot less dissatisfaction in people's lives, fair play to anyone that does well and can afford the finer things in life and anyone that wants to move away as I did in my youth and see the world but to be blaming all your problems on being born in one of the wealthiest safest countries in the world is nothing short of moronic, anyone with their head screwed on from mid 20s has great opportunities to make to make good go of it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118445821#Comment_118445821

afaik the risk of skin cancer is highest due to uneven sun exposure - way too much during the times when it's sunny in the summer, and too little the rest of the time. sunburn is the thing to be avoiding, not all sunlight as such. of course, very pale skin burns more easily as well.

AllForIt

I was thinking of moving to Spain just before Covid but pretty much put it out of my mind because of that. I don't have a second language but I did study Spanish for a year intensively in 2019 so have a good grounding. My tutor said I should pick it up easily living there with what we covered. Apparently I roll my r's better that most she's ever heard, which I put down to having a talented tongue. :P

Now that we have minimum alcohol pricing here maybe it's time I look at it again, as I heard red wine is really cheap there :P

Buffman

MUP on alcohol was that last little kick in the balls I really didn't need after the last 2 years. If I was in my 20s with zero commitments, I'd definitely be considering a move.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118465183#Comment_118465183

I totally forget about it till last Saturday I noticed the perfectly fine €5 bottle of wine I usually get was gone from the shelves. I'd usually get 2 so that's a tenner. Had I bought 2 of their now cheapest bottles that would be €15. I left empty handed as I was pissed, not the kind of pissed I was hoping for.

Jim2007

The problem with many of the comments here is that it is a list of reasons why someone doesn’t want to be in Ireland rather than a list of reasons why they want to be somewhere else! In 30+ years here in Switzerland I’ve seen countless times. Someone arrives and everything is wonderful for the first six to twelve months and then a new list - reasons not to be in Switzerland :-)

One of the worst reasons on the list is governance of the country, law, politics etc. Most of the countries you’d want to go to have the concept of the separation of powers and the reasons we all have it is because we fully expect there to be corruption in government. In fact the only time you should be worried about this is when you are not hearing about people being caught, it just means you are failing to detect it. And if you go to another parliament of Westminster style democracy you’ll have an even closer experience to Ireland.

Every country has issues with governance and corruption, it’s just that most of them don’t get reported in the international press. One of the biggest scandals in my time in Switzerland was P26, now the interesting thing about it is that several aspects of it relates to Ireland and yet you’d be hard pressed to find an Irish person who has heard of it, never mind being able to explain it.

On the face of it the Swiss healthcare system would probably tick most Irish peoples boxes - short wait lists for specialists, A&E waiting times under an hour, no patients on trolleys etc. On arrival though the first shocker is that there is no public healthcare, everything is private so expect to pay 14k - 20k a year to cover a family of four and good luck finding a GP that will sign you up within 100km of your home!

Every country has it problems, it’s a question of which ones you are willing to tolerate and for some it will be a case of heading back to Ireland.

Strumms

I’ll be continuously evaluating.. life… scores for my / our..

• Personal wellbeing 8/10
• Overall quality of life 8/10
• fairness of society 4/10
• safety and security 5/10
• health services 4/10
• levels of opportunity 6/10
• cost of living 5/10
• general public services 6/10

guesstimates obviously but if in years to come post pandemic the scores and experiences nosedive I’d look at options abroad…I’ve experienced the best of living abroad in France..

• felt much safer
• public transport 1000% better
• One of the best rated healthcare systems in the planet, top 10 according to OECD and other sources and figures.
• less political shîthousery in workplaces.
• Weather much better

Mister Vain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118465378#Comment_118465378

Great post. Hop into a taxi in any city in the world and ask the driver what they think of their own government and you'll almost always get the same answer.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118465378#Comment_118465378

I think you are right that negative reasons are not a good reason for emigrating. Its the wrong mentality and you are not emigrating into a void but into a specific country with fallible people and you'll always be an outsider (be careful criticising your host country in front of the natives).

A positive reason for going because some foreign country has a particular quality is better. It might sound airy-fairy to some here but certain countries like France, Italy and others have a real regard for art and beauty that you don't get in Northern European/Protestant countries. If you are an artist it gives you a boost because you see what you value being given such prominence and importance.

Whereas US, UK, Ireland, Australia and similar have an almost sulking regard for commerce at the expense of everything else. I find it a bit suffocating myself. They all have good art galleries obviously but its not the same.

But then a French person might be attracted to some quality or virtue that English-speaking countries have in abundance that they feel they've been lacking their whole life. Germans fall in love with the natural beauty of the Irish countryside.

Chris_5339762

I'd love to emigrate and get the European lifestyle with better facilities, transport and most importantly weather.

But where would I put my two 75 year old parents? They're too old (and ill) to move.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118465378#Comment_118465378

Come off it, whats wrong here and better somewhere else are literally two sides of the same coin. The principle of relativity applies: things being judged relative to each other. 'More sunshine' only has relevance when you have a context - relative to what? You can't get past local references. The only exception is wanting things elsewhere that have no local equivalent at all.

I want more sunshine, a warmer climate, lower motoring costs with greater freedom of choice, lower taxation for my situation and better health care. These things can be found elsewhere, so that's where I intend to go.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467965#Comment_118467965

So which countries are going to offer you all that then?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467198#Comment_118467198

Disposable income is not much of a measure... In Ireland you have a basic level of healthcare, unemployment benefits etc... built in. Switzerland and the US might top the list, but not paying private health insurance is not a realistic long term option. The same with unemployment benefits - they run out and then you are a social case of some type.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468125#Comment_118468125

New Zealand, Australia.

manonboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462231#Comment_118462231

Nope. It has a few different sides to it. I, as a freelancer, invoice the foreign (Finland) company i work for. They pay me. I tell my accountant. The account submits the invoice as paid to the revenue portal. My tax is calculated at a reduced rate of 20% income tax + social security (much higher here). I pay that to the Portuguese government.

The NHR scheme does allow you dividends from foreign countries, but i have no such thing.

Jim2007

Perhaps I missed it, but I have not seen anyone specifically mentioning the work-life balance as a reason to move....

It's not an issue for me now, but back in the day it would have been a very significant factor as the whole anglo sphere just pays lip service to it as far as I can see.

jester77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468317#Comment_118468317

Yeah, this is a biggie. I remember one of first jobs after leaving Ireland was for a company in Frankfurt that had a very strong Betriebsrat with strong rules in place. The company had a very secure building, and your access card also registered your hours. If you were doing too much overtime and got over a certain number of hours (can't remember the number, but not hard to hit) you were automatically denied access to the building.

My current company doesn't clock hours, but if it is seen that someone is having to work extra hours to get something done, this reflects badly on management. In all my time working there I've never worked more than my contracted hours. It makes for a great work-life balance when you know you can always leave the office at a specific time and focus on other things in life.

opinionated3

Personally I'm very disillusioned with Ireland and the direction in which it's heading. Im Our lack of good leaders and politicians is astounding. I also hate our climate but at 44 years of age and mortgaged, I'm stuck here. Whilst not strictly emigrating, I'd love nothing better than to move to the Algarve when I retire. Unfortunately property prices there are as bad as here so that's probably a dream that should die pretty soon as the reality of our pensions kick in.

FAILSAFE 00

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441002#Comment_118441002

You know we actually need landlords...

The more of them you have the more the rents come down. Less landlords, less accommodation to rent, the rents go higher due to fewer places out there to rent.

Tonnes of people are sitting on cash who could become a landlord but who would want to do that in 2021. They are painted as the villains'. Apparently the best time ever to be a landlord yet they are leaving the market in droves.

Pixel Eater

God I hate these real self-loathing threads. The original poster's disparaging remakes about Ireland are totally over-the-top; there's nothing to do in Ireland except the pub?! What nonsense.

Ireland definitely has it's issue but it's generally a very good place to live. The thing is our problems won't be solved but lots of our citizens leaving the country; that's the reason how socially conservative Catholicism remained so strong for so long. People need to fight and demand change.

It's like how the average Irish soccer supporter spends all their money and time on the English league while downright mocking their own domestic league, then somehow expecting a brilliant international squad.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468225#Comment_118468225

Very backward societies at the other end of the world. Worth a visit maybe, especially NZ for the scenery, but there's nothing in Oz, just a few cities of largely generic aspect. The Sydney Opera house being the only thing distinctive. What if you want to leave the cities for the "countryside" - burnt rock. Not a castle in sight.

It appeals maybe to the more proletarian amongst us.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467309#Comment_118467309

Why didn't you leave prior to this. Ireland is full of people who seem to regret staying on the Island, and a lot of people who came back to Ireland are aware that the grass is never greener.

By the way I have lived abroad, and intend to again, maybe for all or most of my retirement abroad, but Ireland is not as bad as described here.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118470970#Comment_118470970

I suspect that dig is intended to bait. It's certainly an amusing attempt. I'd love to see a photo of your non proletarian castle. Does it cost much to heat?

Kaybaykwah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118457086#Comment_118457086

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468125#Comment_118468125

Germany

(Well, don't know about the motoring costs - don't drive - not an issue for me)

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118471789#Comment_118471789

But the income tax rates are significantly higher than Ireland at all levels and for the low end twice what it is in Ireland - https://publicpolicy.ie/papers/comparing-irish-income-taxation-rates-with-other-eu-member-states/

And how comfortable would you be living in a Germanic culture? Are you a person that likes to be organized? Would you be comfortable liking in a society that expects you to be organized?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469429#Comment_118469429

The problem with the retirement dream is that it is usually only half backed. The dream only covers the early years when you are still active and the coffers are full. But move on to your 80s when you are not so healthy, you need healthcare services, home help, possibly move to residential care etc. The quality of the healthcare is one thing, the social aspect is another - most of it will be provided in the national languages and the patients and residents will mainly be nationals. Will you be comfortable to deal with all your sicknesses, social contact etc in a foreign language?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118470151#Comment_118470151

That's not what 'self' means.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118471965#Comment_118471965

In real terms, my net income goes further than it ever did in Ireland.

I've been living in Berlin for eight years, but that doesn't really answer your question because 1 - Berlin doesn't subscribe to your ill-formed stereotype, and 2 - I was expected to be organised in Ireland, so...

Squeeonline

I left Ireland in my mid-20s and haven't looked back. I wouldn't take a job in Ireland for less than 150k/year to make up for the cost of living and to have the same quality of life I have on the continent. I love visiting Ireland when I can, but it's not somewhere I'd want to live and work permanently ever again.

The grass is actually greener.

professor longhair

I have been living in the Netherlands (Amsterdam) for over three years now, previously also lived in Australia for a short period.

Wanted to share my experience and correct some of the mistruths being bandied about.

Relatively speaking taxes and cost of living are not cheap here, I would say the tax system is pretty similar to Ireland but the difference is what you get for your tax here. Amazing infrastructure and public transport which makes getting around so easy that I have no need for a car. This in itself presents a massive financial saving for me when I think of how much it cost to tax, insure, fuel, and maintain a car in Ireland.

NL is a small country (bout the size of Munster) with a high population density as such property can be expensive. However even in the fancy parts of Amsterdam it is still cheaper than Dublin!. I haven't bought yet so have been renting and this is a completely different experience than back home. In the last 4 years I lived in Ireland, I had to move 4 times because of various landlord excuses. In the final 6 months I couldn't even find a property that would take us because we had a dog! Bottom line renting in Ireland offers no security. Here it is the opposite, I pay a decent amount for my apartment but it has great (brand new fixtures and fittings) and once you live in a property over 12 months you have TOTAL security no exceptions,. I can do whatever I want to the property once it can be put back to its original state before I leave. MY rent can only go up about 0.5% each year and that is it. Bottom line I feel like this is my home, not like I am some serf waiting to be put out on the street at anytime.

But ultimately the biggest improvement for me is quality of life, Nobody here thinks commuting 10 hours a week is a sane way to live, most parents work 4 days a week, working overtime or extra hours to do your work is seen as wrong and not encouraged so work life balance is better. There are amazing parks and public spaces everywhere and unlike Ireland they are used everyday because they are not overrun by feral teenagers. On a nice day you can go have a BBQ and beers in the park without an ounce of trouble or intimidation. This is a big thing in my book, it is so safe here that despite the weather you spend a lot more time enjoying what the city has to offer.

OK some cons, Weather is just as bad as Ireland, It can be hard to make friends as an expat.

I miss the people and nature in Ireland but NL just shows me how good it can be to live in a city that is run for its people, not developers, hotels, cars, freal scrotes

Pussyhands

Maybe it's just nostalgia, maybe it's because I had no aims or desires to own a house etc at that time but does anyone prefer that time around 2014 and 2015?

Things just seemed less intense. We were still kind of coming out of the recession but I didn't see or feel that same intense sense of greed or pressure around nowadays. Everyone is desperate to squeeze out as much money as possible. Everyone's desperate to buy a house at all costs or buy a nice car.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118472275#Comment_118472275

Things were still pretty **** then, many graduates could tell you the same. But yeah, I dunno, the expense of everything has just gone through the roof. People need to get paid and everyone's trying to look after themselves but even the other day I had to call someone out for a small job. Luckily for me I just had to keep the cost from the rent but the landlord wasn't too happy at first. He lives over the border and yeah, literally cost double what it would 10 miles up the road. I'm sure once he thinks about it the extra 60 quid isn't that big a deal and saved him having to do anything or follow up or whatever but when the same service costs twice as much on one side of the border it does feel like a bit of a rip-off.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118472970#Comment_118472970

I was a graduate around that time earning just over 22k in Dublin. 390 in rent a month for a double room in an apartment in south Dublin. Rental crisis existed then but wasn't like it is now either.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118473194#Comment_118473194

Ah yeah the rent was lovely back then but just finding anything work-wise was a disaster in a lot of places. We had 17 graduate, I think at this stage 4 have ended up in the field we studied, as many ended up doing teaching (only 1 had intended to) and a few went unrelated civil service and a few went elsewhere.

Swaine

Example of why I detest this country. Had a bad ear infection recently. €60 to visit doctor only for her to tell me to go get ear drops. Didn't work. Back again, told nurse will clean out my ears. Another €60 for that. €30 for the nurse to clean them. €150 later problem still there. Go to A&E, sit there for 6 hours only to be told to come back in the morning to see ENT. €100 for that. See ENT next morning, sorts the problem for €80. Antibiotics another €15 plus €8 for drops.

I pay €130 per week in tax and that's the level of service our health service provides. €350 to sort an ear infection whereas the wasters who pay no tax with medical cards get all this for free.

The less you contribute the more you get. That is fcuked up.