Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120855990#Comment_120855990

Speaking of soccer more relevantly to this thread:

https://www.marca.com/en/football/womens-world-cup/2023/07/11/64ad345922601da5428b4597.html

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120855245#Comment_120855245

So your position is that the negro leagues weren't borne of racism? Nobody thinks the players themselves were racist (that's a bit of a strawman).

And just for clarity of everyone, I'm taking it that you don't think the sporting bodies implementing the rules are bigots based off this sentence:

apologies given directly for any direct receipts

Unless you can square whether racism was part of the negro leagues formation (it was), bringing them up again and again is quite baffling and, I will call you out directly, insulting for everyone on the thread, whether you intended it or not. But I will take the apology.

A South Korean trans woman deliberately partook in a women's racing event to prove the advantage that biological males have. She doesn't believe that trans women should enter women's competition, but wanted to prove a point.

She said that trans women who enter women's sport are "selfish".

https://twitter.com/Martina/status/1679898387640975360

Gatling

So people on feinting concern for our women's football team recently,but won't publicly tell us what a woman actually is

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120855990#Comment_120855990

As I explained to Overheal astro - I don’t expect there would be anyone on this thread expressing concern for the safety of women in sports would actually be concerned about an incident which actually fits the bill. If the cap actually did fit, that’s a matter for the poster themselves, though I doubt they would be forthcoming in admitting they were feigning concern for women in sports.

I gave up on the idea of entertaining an honest discussion in this thread ages ago, it’s why I bowed out instead of wasting any more time on it, but that incident when I read it this morning reminded me this thread was still kicking and hadn’t been put out of it’s misery yet.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856016#Comment_120856016

So your position is that the negro leagues weren't borne of racism? Nobody thinks the players themselves were racist (that's a bit of a strawman).

You're literally engaging in "a bit of a strawman," read yourself back. I was asking why you called it "the racist negro leagues"

I'm taking it that you don't think the sporting bodies implementing the rules are bigots based off this sentence:

apologies given directly for any direct receipts

I cannot stop you from making such a leap of imagination. Which sporting bodies? Saudi Arabia's sporting bodies? Women's rowing in Afghanistan? The Olympics? 6th grade swimming in Ohio? I don't know why you jump to such far fetched and broad statements. Do you know if "the sporting bodies implementing the rules" are bigots or not? For all cases and persons involved or just some?

If you want an apology you need a receipt.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856000#Comment_120856000

Come on. Clutching badly. Legendry? Marca? Buzz words.

A sun article I'd consider low brow compared to that. Also Google their name...

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856041#Comment_120856041

Who?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856058#Comment_120856058

What about her, prolific US Soccer player.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856068#Comment_120856068

I love people digging deeper on society and exposing, without unnecessary drama, when necessary.

Fair play to her for being an advocate and getting endorsements to carry on their heoric work...thanks Nike.

Also how on earth does somebody have nearly more international caps than club caps?

Potential-Monke

I'm not getting your point OEJ? Unless it was a trans player who injured the Irish one, it's kinda irrelevant to this thread. It's not about keeping women safe from women in sport, it's about keeping women safe from women who were once men (if that's how one wants to believe it). A bit different. And all we have is a few words from a couple of people who witnessed what happened, which happened behind closed doors. We've no idea if the tackle was indeed hard, deliberate, too much, an over-reaction... Hard to comment on something we didn't see and is not hugely reported. Ronaldo falls over with the breeze and feigns life ending injuries. Most do actually, even who I consider the GOAT Messi (albeit, nowhere near as much as the others, because he knows if he keeps going he'll most likely score. Then again, soccer is boring as fook anyway, so meh).

I'd be against deliberate fouling by anyone in any sport. But the thread is more about the physical advantages an... ex-man has over women, save for a few exceptions. If there are trans players on the Colombian team, then I think you might have a point if said player(s) was/were involved in the tackle. I had a quick search, and can't find an article stating as much, so I'm assuming it's your traditional all biological women. Maybe the Irish team are a bit too soft? I dunno.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856044#Comment_120856044

There's literally another thread about it and it's not a trans-gender issue, you're reaching there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856045#Comment_120856045

Ok, so you aren't backing down from calling everyone* bigots again, noted, you can be sorry about implying that, but it is what you are doing and trying to weasel out of.

Which sporting bodies?

Let's pick 1** (the usual downfall of a trumpster, or right wing loon, let's see how you fair), the English Rugby Football Union and Rugby Football League boards have banned trans-women from competing in the women's league, are they bigoted? Is everyone on the board(s) who voted for the ban a bigot?

You're literally engaging in "a bit of a strawman," read yourself back. I was asking why you called it "the racist negro leagues"

You keep bringing up the racist negro leagues in a discussion about transgender people in sport. Are you trying to say that racism wasn't involved in why they existed and it was something else? We can certainly continue discussing this area, but it needs your position on racism first.

*anyone who doesn't think trans-women should be competing against biological females given restrictions already discussed, assume this is the case to prevent repetition and pointless back and forth

** technically 2

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856741#Comment_120856741

The whole wanting to keep women safe in sports angle as a reason to prohibit people who are transgender from competing in sports with women is a load of bollocks PM, is the point. It’s understandable that you won’t get the point of the post, because you’re at least honest about your views, which is fair enough - like I said, the cap won’t fit in your case.

It doesn’t matter what the sex is of the person who inflicts an injury on a woman, the point is that it isn’t going to stop women playing sports and competing in sports, which is the argument being made - that if people who are transgender are permitted to compete in accordance with their preferred gender, women’s sports will die on their arse.

There’s no evidence to support this assertion other than what amounts to anecdotal evidence. In reality women’s participation in sports isn’t predicated upon whether or not people who are transgender are permitted to compete with them or against them. There are several more influential and relevant factors which affect their participation rates.

That’s why the post I made is relevant in this thread, and when I say the cap won’t fit - it won’t fit anyone who isn’t using the argument of women’s safety as a disingenuous excuse for their objection to people who are transgender participating in sports and competing in competitions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856777#Comment_120856777

There's literally another thread about it and it's not a trans-gender issue, you're reaching there.

I’ve explained its relevance here already. That you don’t consider it relevant doesn’t change that fact. You’re free to ignore the point the same as I do when I don’t consider a point is worth entertaining on the basis that it’s irrelevant or the poster just isn’t worth engaging with. I did it for long enough in this thread, it wasn’t because you kept trying to pull me up on shìt. Eventually I figured I should take this thread about as seriously as everyone else appeared to be taking it.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856838#Comment_120856838

I have no idea what you're on about.

Could you summarise please? Preferably bullet points.

I'm not having a go at you. But it's difficult to know what your position is, and argument is about the thread tittle. Please keep it simple for me.

Yes or no. Should transgender women be allowed compete in by birth female sport after reaching puberty? Yes or no?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856852#Comment_120856852

I know you’re not having a go, it’s a fair question, to which I’ll give you a straight answer, short ‘n’ simple - yes.

Now rather than either of us expending any more energy and effort, I’ll save us both the trouble and instead focus my attention on making that happen, as opposed to arguing with people who are determined to ensure it never happens.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856741#Comment_120856741

That actually shows that it's discrimination then. All along there have been cries of "its about women's safety" - now its we don't care about women's safety if they are injured by cis women, only when they are injured by trans women. You have actually just completely proved @One eyed Jack correct.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856884#Comment_120856884

Thank you for your polite and honest answer. I really appreciate it.

Edit: I meant that post. Not facetious.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856897#Comment_120856897

Back up the truck here.

That's absolutely not it at all and you know it.

It is not discrimination. This that fact of the matter. A male after puberty who takes hormones for the sake of entering a woman's event is not right(also from WADA its illegal).

This is not true. Absolutely not! Oyj is not right.

Jaysus. How many arguing for it have daughters, granddaughters, nieces...No way.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857030#Comment_120857030

The logical outcome of the claim that you are only worried about cis womens safety when they play with trans women but not when they play with other cis women is that is about discrimination.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857035#Comment_120857035

Struggling to find what you mean from your post let alone logic.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856838#Comment_120856838

A female rugby player would suffer catastrophic injuries if she collided with a biological male who IDs as being female in a match. Biological females don't stand a chance in a race, whether it's in running or swimming or cycling, when biological males who ID as being female are allowed to run in women's events.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857057#Comment_120857057

Say rugby. I'd consider myself small in the sport and old. But I'm 185 cm and about 85 kgs. If I transition I'd pretty much get on any team.

If there was s&c program, throw on another 10kgs.

My son at only 75kgs, below 18 years old, would blow any female prop away. Simple matter of genetics.

This testerone reduction lark stuff is just that.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857030#Comment_120857030

It’s not the fact of the matter though because exemptions in sports already exist, and the inevitable conclusion of an argument which suggests that people shouldn’t be permitted to participate in sports because of the risk they pose to others, is based upon stereotypes, assumptions and hypotheticals, as opposed to reality where players, both men and women, are injured in sports all the time.

Even in games which are only meant to be friendly or amateur games, but especially in games where the participants are simply unevenly matched -

Dani Czernuszka, 34, was paralysed from the waist down playing for Reading Sirens in a league match against Bracknell Ladies in October 2017, after opponent Natasha King exerted full weight to her head and back when she was bent over waiting to receive the ball.

The judge ruled that King was liable for the severe spinal injuries Czernuszka sustained as a result of the "dangerous" and "illegal" tackle, a verdict which sets a precedent for sporting injury claims.

"I am grateful for today's ruling and to finally put to bed all of the untruths and fabrications surrounding what happened during the game that day," Czernuszka said in a statement issued by her lawyers.

"Sport has always given me great pleasure in life, and I don't blame the game of rugby for what happened that day. Ultimately, I feel I was let down by improper and poor behaviour from the opposing player, coaching staff and the referee."

The Court heard that King was not penalised by the match referee.

"I hope I can use my injury and the outcome of today's trial to raise awareness of the dangerous lines that shouldn't be crossed when playing sport - no matter the level," added Czernuszka, who now plays para ice hockey for Team Great Britain.

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/british-amateur-player-left-paralysed-by-illegal-tackle-wins-10-mln-damages-2023-02-23/#:~:text=Feb%2023%20(Reuters)%20%2D%20A,Thursday%20in%20a%20legal%20first.

Rather than penalising players who want to play and play by the rules and have no interest whatsoever in causing injury to other players, the argument for women’s safety in sports should be concerned with rooting out the thugs who are a far greater threat to women in sports than people who are perceived as, and portrayed as a threat, on the basis that they are transgender.

I don’t have daughters or granddaughters, have a few nieces alright, but I do have a son, who I would not wish to see penalised on the basis that he is to be feared by anyone. I have a phobia of horses, but it’s not reason enough to prohibit him from participating in equestrian sports. I know that the potential is there that a bad fall from a horse could leave him paralysed, but even that isn’t compelling enough to justify prohibiting him from participating in a sport from which he derives numerous benefits in terms of his social, physical, mental and emotional development.

I tried to get him interested in other sports that I’m into like swimming, rugby, hurling, but he wasn’t interested, much like most young people aren’t interested in every sport, but it’s getting them into any sport is the important thing which matters, not whether they’re going to be left with life-limiting injuries as a consequence of participating in the sport.

That’s the responsibility of the organisers of the sport, to ensure that all participants are safe from harm and promote the sport so that it attracts people to the sport, rather than driving people away because they don’t want to address the thugs in the dressing room who’s only interest is in abusing people who want to participate in the sport.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857035#Comment_120857035

What exactly is a "cis woman" and a "trans woman" in your eyes?

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857086#Comment_120857086

Agree and disagree.

I'll be blunt and say **** happens.

More **** happens if you bring an unknown vector(actually well known).

Your article was a horrible misfortune, which I have seen a couple of times in my playing career.

I believe you are disingenuous with that article. As I said above, **** happens.

Now, for balance, can you point me to articles of fractured skulls in mma, new collegiate records, sponsorship teams...for balance of course. You know what I'm saying. Don't pretend.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857109#Comment_120857109

I’ll be just as blunt and point out that shìt never just happens, there’s always a cause, generally speaking a bad diet is the cause 🤨

You get the point 😂

It wasn’t just a horrible misfortune though, it was foreseeable and preventable, it just wasn’t prevented by removing the player from the game. There were her actions leading up to the incident which indicated that she was dangerous, and they were ignored or overlooked by the people whose responsibility it was to protect all the players. I’m not being disingenuous with the article, when I’m being disingenuous you’ll know it, like telling you to ask Paula Radcliffe and Gary Lineker did it just happen when they shat themselves. Hell even Sonia O’ Sullivan blamed her stomach upset on a dodgy grape she’d consumed.

I can of course point you to articles of fractured skulls in MMA, new collegiate records and sponsorship teams, but what are you trying to balance? It’s that which I’m not sure of, and I’m not pretending I don’t know what you’re driving at, because it wouldn’t take more than a few seconds on Google to give you some examples of what you’re asking for.

It still wouldn’t change the fact that it’s the thugs who should be rooted out of sports, and then there would be a significant reduction in the amount of shìt that happens as a consequence of protecting the thugs within any sport in order to protect the image of the sport, by pretending there aren’t any issues. Plenty of people’s careers have been cut short by other people in every sport and putting it down to “shìt happens” is what allows that abuse to continue rather than addressing it and preventing that shìt from happening.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857135#Comment_120857135

Have you played any physical sports.

Many myself.

Mitigation of risk is important.

I appreciate your feedback, but I honestly don't think you have a clue of the dangers involved and the training, both from coaches and players. It's no joke.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857145#Comment_120857145

I have, and I’m going to head you off at the pass there before you go suggesting that men are dangerous thugs who set out to abuse women, because that’s the logical conclusion of where you’re going with that line of reasoning.

I’m acutely aware of the dangers involved and the training both from the coaches and the players, from everyone involved and invested in sports, such as the parents and the children too, as you were questioning earlier the idea of those who argue in favour of the participation and competition in sports of people who are transgender.

I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that the fact that neither of us being transgender doesn’t disqualify us from giving our opinions, but that’s where you’re going in arguing that the only people who are qualified to have an opinion are either those who have played sports, or those with relatives, or both.

I would suggest you’re attempting to stack the deck in your favour, but at least you’ve not gone so far as to suggest that only elite transgender athletes are qualified to offer an opinion on whether they should be disqualified from participating in sports. That would exclude both of us for starters!

2Greyfoxes

Accidents are always going to happen, spots due to their physical nature come with an increase in that risk, some sports more than others.

Just like any physical activity comes with a risk of accidents.

We can never fully eliminate the risk of accidents in life, we can however try to mitigate the risk, and impact of any accidents. Seat belts, motorbike helmets, etc.

Same applies in not allowing Males who identify as Women in Female sports. The human Male body has a well known and proven list of physical advantages over a Female body. For example the World's strongest Woman could beat most Men, however the world's strongest Man could beat all Women.

Playing 'clever word games' to try to wave the biological differences away is at best ingenious, and at worst malevolent.

Large bottle small glass

A Colombian woman hurt an Irish woman in a physical contact sport ergo women are dangerous. Therefore males should be left play with them.

That's as weak an argument as I've seen.

Unfollow again