Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

cdeb

Of course a WGM is a lesser title than a GM.

But it is not the case, in my view, that Women's titles in general are considered less valuable, which was the point the article made (and I think it was just bad English rather than anything malicious). Because, again, there are Women's titles which are higher than or roughly equivalent to Open titles, and there are Open titles which are lower than other Open titles and indeed than some Women's titles. 

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996672#Comment_120996672

"in my view."

cdeb

Sure. Which would be a heck of a lot of a more experienced view than, say, yours. And my rationale is explained a lot better than yours. (And maybe some women players have a different view to me about them.)

Any chance you want to acknowledge your Jenner comparison was completely irrelevant, btw? I mean, you made it four or five times so it must have been important to you at the time. I think it'd be good for you to acknowledge it's just wrong.

Enduro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996670#Comment_120996670

And again you run away from the fact that you have been caught out not reading the content of the thread. You asserted you didn't know if cdeb plays chess. Just a few posts earlier in this thread he told us exactly the level he plays chess at. I repeat you've demonstrated for the second time this week that you either don't read or have no ability to comprehend simple facts in the thread.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996689#Comment_120996689

Sure. Which would be a heck of a lot of a more experienced view than, say, yours.

Claims of papacy without showing any robes. You're simply engaging in ad hominem and accusing me of not understanding plain english.

"And my rationale is explained a lot better than yours." Who types this with a straight face, it's beneath sophomoric.

Any chance you want to acknowledge your Jenner comparison was completely irrelevant, btw? 

You keep proving how relevant it is by constantly bringing it up.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996693#Comment_120996693

I'm unclear if you're understanding what I've said, but a user claiming they are an expert or good at something, is only proof that they claimed that, I don't place any stock in it. Do you care if I list my credentials in a conversation? No. I'm the pope remember. But I don't lean on my papacy, I use sources, and evidentiary reasoning.

Enduro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996704#Comment_120996704

You're the one demonstrating that you can't understand plain English with the content of your posts. You tried to compare depriving someone of a past Olympic medal with having an honorific changed. That was the start of this discussion. You've refused to accept that the factual basis for your initial comparison was invalid. A lifetime honorific is not comparable to a once off winner's prize.

Enduro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996717#Comment_120996717

You specifically said, and I quote :

I don't know if you play chess or not.

You said this to a user who very recently outlined EXACTLY what his level of chess experience is. Your inability to acknowledge basic facts is not a good look, especially when it only takes a minute to find the evidence.

Overheal

"Facts" require evidence, Enduro.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996665#Comment_120996665

F indeed I got you ass backwards in that post I apologize profusely.

How it started (defending Graham Linehan), followed by a litany of mudslinging when called out in replies

How it ended lol

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996660#Comment_120996660

I do see where you're coming from with this, but women can and do also become Grand Masters which appears to be a gender neutral title and open to everyone? If they were excluded from the higher grand master title then that would be unfair and a sign that they think women aren't good enough to progress to that level. I think it's fairly clear that the woman grand master title is an incentive to encourage more females to play higher level chess and also a stepping stone to becoming a grand master if they so wish.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997334#Comment_120997334

But women can and do also become Grand Masters which appears to be a gender neutral title and open to everyone?

Where's the Male Grand Master title then. It's a structure patently skewed to one sex over the other IMHO.

cdeb

A small measure to encourage more women to play a historically almost exclusively male game/sport, which doesn't impact male players in the slightest, is sexist now?

Christ almighty. You can't win with some people

Enduro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997346#Comment_120997346

I presume you're hugely opposed to affirmtiave action (such as this example) on principle then, since you find this example so offensive, and applaud the recent decsion to find affirmative action admission policies to U.S. universities to be illegal (since it was patentently skrewed to one race over another).

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997346#Comment_120997346

I've read cbed's posts and it's my understanding that there is an open category and a female category.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997441#Comment_120997441

I was never that supportive of AA, it’s got its issues, that generally outweighs the motivations. Nor do I take any strong position on the SCOTUS decision, however alarming the justice corruption issues ultimately are becoming. Those are separate threads already iirc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997448#Comment_120997448

No comment.

Enduro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997488#Comment_120997488

I'm sure there are other threads for sure. I'm just curious to see if you're consistent in your opposition to AA (which this Chess example appears to be, effectively). In fairness, it would appear to be the case that broadly you are.

It sounds like you're not a million miles off my own position. Broadly speaking I think the motivation is usually good, but I'm opposed to AA in zero-sum game situations, such as university admissions (the number of seats to fill is finite). I'm happy to support the chess example here since nobody loses out by having additional titles available specifically for female players. No males lose any opportunities that they would otherwise have had)

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996223#Comment_120996223

This is in fact a fairly fundamental error and OEJ has further betrayed his ignorance of all this by not picking you up on it actually

That‘s a most curious interpretation for my unwillingness to whip out my bishop and get up on my high horse like a white knight in order to flex on some poor bastard about something which I didn’t even consider relevant. It’s not as though I haven’t form for not giving a fcuk about silly details which are nothing more than a distraction.

I’ve demonstrated that capacity for not giving a fcuk about irrelevant details before, like earlier when you mentioned that Ilya Smirin was fined - didn’t give a fcuk, because it’s irrelevant in the broader context, much like your efforts to humiliate me into submission came to nothing, and for what it’s worth will continue to come to nothing. The best you can hope for is a stalemate.

For what it’s actually worth - soon as you began flashing your e-penis about the place by declaring your credentials with regard to chess, the first thing that occurred to me wasn’t “this guy knows what he’s talking about”, it was the temptation to absolutely go to town on the chess puns, figuring you’d get the joke.

I swear, you wouldn’t believe the amount of self-restraint I had to employ to resist throwing out every chess related pun I knew, and that’s the thing - I don’t have to Google what I know already, I recall it from memory. I do have to Google it in the unlikely and incredibly rare once in a lifetime event that some small tidbit of the amount of useless information I keep in my brain is at some point actually relevant.

Then I have to Google it because I don’t remember how I know it, I just do. That however is of fcukall use to anyone outside of the confines of my own mind, and so I don’t mind at all providing sources by using Google, it’s nothing to me, but I know it still means fcukall to you (not you personally, you’re alright really, compared to actual knobheads), you just want me to do the legwork, which is fair enough. It’s an online discussion and we know fcukall about each other (apart from, well at least it’s established you’re not a knobhead), so I wouldn’t expect some randomer who doesn’t know me to take my word for anything. I would hate for anyone to actually take me seriously because when they do, then I know I’m REALLY In trouble and should book myself into a funny farm.

Speaking of funny farms and all things chess related and titles in particular, we’re too far gone now but God damn if this isn’t a cracking joke:

https://twitter.com/nigelshortchess/status/1089777731133411328

You’ll get that, because as a chess player you’ll undoubtedly be familiar with the fact that other chess players have been lamenting the devaluation of titles for years now… and it’s your boy Nigel 😂

Nah, I suspect that didn’t even raise so much as a titter, like being serious is fine if we were playing chess, I’m not completely devoid of any social skills, but when we’re just having a conversation online? I don’t expect anyone should have to bring their A-game. I sure as hell don’t, because the value of random strangers opinions is worth nothing. There is no win involved, there is no loss involved, apart from face, but I’m ok with that, not the first time I’ve lost an organ, definitely won’t be the last. Losing because I lost my shìt and had a temper tantrum though?

That would be humiliating, but we’re different people, and I make allowances for that fact. You on the other hand don’t appear to believe your interactions with other people requires the same degree of courtesy and respect I extend to others, and bite my tongue (that’ll be the next organ to go at this rate!), rather than nitpicking over the most stupid, irrelevant little things which are inconsequential in the grander scheme of things, because it matters more to me that I’m aware of how I treat others, than it matters to me one bit how others treat me. I can walk away from the conversation knowing I didn’t let myself down. I didn’t seek to pounce on anyone and humiliate them into submission just so I could feel better about myself. I’d suggest you ought to try it some time, but you’re a big boy, far too late for that.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997573#Comment_120997573

When you launch a personal attack - it’s correcting me on my errors.

When I correct you on your errors - it’s a personal attack.

Seems a bit obvious what’s going on there really - we’re coming at it from two entirely different perspectives, which in the broader context of the thread, you have to laugh at really… or risk a thread ban if it continues, and I’d not like to see anyone banned from the discussion tbh so I’ll leave it there.

cdeb

Both you and Overheal have accused me of personal attacks. I have made no personal attacks. Saying you don't know what you're talking about and explaining why does not constitute a personal attack.

You've nothing in that rant of a post to really respond to, so I'll leave you be. I think most posters here have already made their minds up on the matter

DUBLINIRL

Why do female only sports exist at all OP? Should we just get rid of a gender divide completely in sport?

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997695#Comment_120997695

Very few women would qualify at elite status events.

Most sports are open anyways.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997710#Comment_120997710

The reality is of course that in open competition, fewer men would qualify.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997728#Comment_120997728

I've read your post several times and am still lost.

Dumb down your "well researched facts" please. I'm no gm of chess.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997728#Comment_120997728

Probably not true

Take 128 players at Wimbledon. An Open tournament would almost certainly be all men

The snooker is Open - no woman has ever qualified, or come close

Fairly clear that no women players would be in the Premier League given national teams often play friendlies against U15 boys' teams

I'm sure that goes for most other sports

satguy

One of those very nice T people has been bared from the Women's World Chess Championship.

https://www.thejournal.ie/transgender-chess-players-6146166-Aug2023/

And while it is not Football or Rugby,, where a man could easily hurt young girls in hard tackles, or even Swimming, where a 6ft 4in man can swim faster than any girl ever could,, I still feel it was the best way to go.

But the World Chess Body (FIDE) has said that they will still be welcome to enter the Men's World Chess Championship should they wish. In fact all genders, and any others that wish, may enter the Men's World Chess Championship, something I think that is very fair to all..

Enduro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997728#Comment_120997728

That is comlete rubbish. Please provide any evidence at all to support that. You asserting this is not evidence.

You are still running away from my question which I have asked you multiple times, including to day when I called you out on lying about my posts.

So once again : Do you agree that post pubescent male sex athletes have a significant performance advantage over females sex athletes? Yes or no?

Enduro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997695#Comment_120997695

In short, because of facts like these :

Edited to add, there is a sex divide in most sports, not a gender divide. The results are categorised by sex rather than gender in the majority of cases.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997768#Comment_120997768

Failure to understand that statement has nothing to do with your intellect, trust me 😂

In very simple terms then by way of demonstration -

There are very few domains in the Western world at least, where there are equal numbers of men and women participating in any activity. By equal numbers I mean 50/50.

Nusing, teaching, business, science, etc, you get the idea - there are occupations which are either overwhelmingly men, or overwhelmingly women. There is nothing that prohibits any sort of mixing of the sexes in that respect. In sports however, and this goes for the majority of sports - segregation is a feature, not a bug. Sports are designed and developed that way. In sports where competitions are open - they are still dominated by men, and there are a few women who will compete.

This is no different than any other domain where there is one sex is dominant. Some sports will allow women to qualify with men, most sports will not. When women are prohibited or discouraged from competing with men, then it allows for men who wouldn’t ordinarily qualify to compete. There’s a space for them that isn’t already occupied by a woman. It’s why you’ll rarely hear a man cribbing about the idea that his place was stolen by a woman. I say rarely, because there are men who will see the presence of women in ‘their’ sport, as ruining it for them, and some men will go to considerable lengths in some cases to make sure these women know how they want them to feel.

Some organisations will have separate events for women by way of suggesting that if those events didn’t exist, there wouldn’t be any women competing in them. That would be obvious. It distracts from the fact that if women were encouraged to participate with men, there would be less men competing, as they simply wouldn’t qualify given the limitations on resources and places.

It’s not because their brains are 10% smaller that women cannot compete with men. It’s not because men and women’s brains are wired differently that women and men develop interests in different activities, and it’s certainly not because of any biological differences between the sexes that differences in the dominance or prevalence of one sex in any social activity or another are observed.