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Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

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    #5642
    scottser
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭scottser


    Is there anything to be said for getting the senior men's basketball team to play in lieu of the women against Israel?



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    #5643
    Gentlemanne
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭Gentlemanne


    Parkrun can do what they want though can't they and if a few people are offended they'll just have to deal with it.

    I guess its just another organisation that's been "ideologically captured" (gender critical term for anything that supports LGBT which if you notice during Pride Month is literally all of them).

    Hopefully for their sake the CEO can become Peaked (gender critical term for becoming so shocked by anti-trans propaganda you make it your new hobby)



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    #5644
    MilkyToast
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740117#Comment_121740117

    "Ideologically captured" doesn't just relate to gender ideology, but yes, it's used to describe, for example, prison services that put male rapists who 'transition' suddenly upon being charged (and convicted) with rape into women's prisons, or place adult males into sporting events with teenage girls, that sort of thing, often because they are run by people who believe in gender ideology. And while I'm sure there must be some outright homophobes lurking in the GC side of things (as there are on the TRA side of things), gender critical discussion focuses almost exclusively on the T unless it's pointing out the impact of T on LGB.

    "Peaked" is a term people use to describe the point in time when they finally transitioned from "sure, isn't it just polite to tell this fella they're a woman" to "holy **** they're actually performing irreversible surgeries on teenagers and locking women in jails with rapists". It does tend to be somewhat of a consuming realisation, admittedly.

    Post edited by MilkyToast on

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



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    #5645
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,220 ✭✭✭plodder


    By coincidence, they have just announced a change in how results are presented today. It's not primarily about gender and some of the other changes will probably annoy people even more ...

    https://www.parkrun.com/news/



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    #5646
    Enduro
    Registered Users Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭Enduro


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741145#Comment_121741145

    Thanks for that. The last paragraph is pretty definitive about the nature of Parkruns as they see it :

    As we work towards the objectives set out in our five year strategy we’ll continue to take steps to ensure that everyone is able to enjoy parkrun for what it is: a free community event and an opportunity to be active, social and outside in a non-competitive, inclusive and welcoming environment.

    So they see their events as non-competitive (and, notably, never ever describe them as races). Which is absolutely fine (as I know you agree). Their events, their rules.

    MilkyToast's examples of Male Sex athletes running in the Female gender category (for that is what it is in this case) in Parkruns provide a useful example of what is likely to happen in any sports that define their categories based on Gender rather than Sex. It's an excellent example of why competitive sports prioritising sporting fairness should ensure their rules around categories are tightly defined (to ensure they are categories by Sex rather than Gender) to prevent similar situations from arising.



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    #5647
    Enduro
    Registered Users Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭Enduro


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121736886#Comment_121736886

    You are very strongly implying that if Parkruns were actually competitive then transwomen would be stealing something from cis women. You've posted three times to point out (correctly) that Parkruns are not competitive. And as a result of this, according to your logic, there can be no stealing.

    Hopefully, you can now accept that in competitive events things are different. Otherwise, why would you feel the need to point out so many times that Parkruns are not competitive?



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    #5648
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742176#Comment_121742176

    No. I don't accept that sports should exclude trans people. I'm highlighting the inconsistencies of the arguments that's all.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #5649
    EagererBeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740117#Comment_121740117

    Is this transplaining?



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    #5650
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,500 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743182#Comment_121743182

    Oh I like that term, keeping that one.



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    #5651
    Gentlemanne
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭Gentlemanne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743182#Comment_121743182

    Explain to me what that could even possibly mean



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    #5652
    chopperbyrne
    Registered Users Posts: 10,997 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743180#Comment_121743180

    Nobody is talking about excluding trans people from sport, just that sports should in general be segregated by sex, and not how someone identifies.



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    #5653
    mjsc1970
    Registered Users Posts: 652 ✭✭✭mjsc1970


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743774#Comment_121743774

    This post will be ignored and we'll go round and round for many more pages until it has to be said again, and again.



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    #5654
    EagererBeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743733#Comment_121743733

    I'd have "thought" (past participle of the verb "to think") it was pretty easily (adverb that modifies the adjective "easy") figured out, no"?" (Mark of punctuation used to indicate that the writer has posed a question.)

    Geddit now?!?



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    #5655
    Enduro
    Registered Users Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭Enduro


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743180#Comment_121743180

    The main inconsistency you're highlighting here is the massive inconsistency in your arguments. You're making the point that nobody could have stolen anything BECAUSE Parkruns are non-competitive (and making it multiple times in multiple posts). By that reasoning competitive events must be different (and therefore there is the possibility of theft in competitive events), otherwise you wouldn't have highlighted this. Unless you want to agree that your own argument is massively inconsistent (or illogical, whichever you prefer)

    As chopperbyne has correctly pointed out, sports don't exclude trans people. A growing number of sports don't take any account of gender identity (or sexual orientation, or star sign) whatsoever, so they couldn't be excluded.



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    #5656
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743774#Comment_121743774

    Well yes by not allowing trans people to compete in their preferred gender it is exclusion. I know that's uncomfortable for some of you but it is exclusion.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #5657
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744683#Comment_121744683

    No not at all

    I am pointing out that those opposed to trans people competing in sport will often bring in the competitive element of it in order to enhance their argument whereas in this case that wasn't possible so it shows a complete inconsistency of arguments amongst those who want to trans people taking part in sport in their preferred gender.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #5658
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744683#Comment_121744683

    Heard it all before "of course gay people can get married just not to people of their own gender, they can still get married though so they are not excluded from marriage"

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #5659
    Enduro
    Registered Users Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭Enduro


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744726#Comment_121744726

    Completely irrelevant argument. There is nothing stopping anyone of any gender from competing. They can identify as any gender they desire. They will not be stopped from competing no matter what their gender identity is. Similarly they can identify as any star sign they like. They will not be stopped from competing no matter what star sign they identify as, even if their star sign identity doesn't correspond to their date of birth for age category purposes.



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    #5660
    Enduro
    Registered Users Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭Enduro


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744715#Comment_121744715

    YOU are the one bringing in the non-competitive element. You're so logically inconsistent that you can't even see how you're spinning in circles in a swirl of logical inconsistency.



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    #5661
    Enduro
    Registered Users Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭Enduro



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744698#Comment_121744698

    There is nothing to stop anyone competing in their preferred gender. If there are gender categories then they can choose to compete in their preferred gender. If there are other categories, such as age categories or weight categories, then their gender will have no impact on which of those categories they will be allowed to compete in.



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    #5662
    Enduro
    Registered Users Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭Enduro


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743911#Comment_121743911

    I think most of us knew it would only be a very short amount of time before you'd be proven 100% correct! And of course...🙄



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    #5663
    chopperbyrne
    Registered Users Posts: 10,997 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744698#Comment_121744698

    I'm not uncomfortable with that type of exclusion at all. It's common sense for fairness and safety of girls and women. It still doesn't mean trans people are being excluded from sport. Just that sex categories are being enforced.



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    #5664
    MilkyToast
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744698#Comment_121744698

    No, it's not exclusion. Every person on Earth is either male or female and is able to compete in the category that corresponds with their sex.

    You are not asking for equality. You are insisting on special treatment for someone who claims to hold a particular belief about themself.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



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    #5665
    MilkyToast
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741499#Comment_121741499

    If they remove times and records then I don't really have an issue with it - it really is just a social running group at that point. People who want to test their times for their own purposes can do so. 🤷‍♀️

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



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    #5666
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744802#Comment_121744802

    dunno how it was proven correct exactly when the post wasnt ignored

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #5667
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Parkrun - Women's rights (UK)

    https://youtu.be/i0kW3LiNFEM?si=f2NvWgRE8BwNSLj1



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    #5668
    Large bottle small glass
    Registered Users Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744764#Comment_121744764

    A devotee to to any form of postmodernism (which from which gender ideology has developed) is not going to be a go bet for engaging in critical thinking with.



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    #5669
    Enduro
    Registered Users Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭Enduro


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744867#Comment_121744867

    Bescuase we understand that it's his point that would be ignored. The one you are completely unable to deal with. That most sports are categorised by sex and not by gender.

    So by allowing trans people to compete in their preferred gender, but in the sex category that correspond to their sex, it is NOT exclusion. I know that's uncomfortable for you but it is NOT exclusion.



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    #5670
    Gentlemanne
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭Gentlemanne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744764#Comment_121744764

    edit wrong quote



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    #5671
    Gentlemanne
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭Gentlemanne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744757#Comment_121744757

    I think the issue with the whole "trans debate" (always fun when a minority has a Debate or Question ostensibly about their right to exist) is that both sides are at such a complete impasse from the get-go. My position is that the medical condition that transgender people have is real and they deserve like anyone does some basic rights and dignity, and because I'm not a medical professional I'll defer to what the vast majority of medical and psychological organizations recommend especially over what right-wing rags and murdoch channels are puking out.

    Conversely its "trans, that's just some old fake rubbish like astrology"? Hard to take seriously.

    (To be fair sometimes there's a link to a news article usually it's from Reduxx or something which feels like I'm having to read a story about ants from Anteater Weekly)



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