Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354308#Comment_122354308

They’re another woman from your perspective though? The concept of misgendering itself is not one I care about in the slightest to be honest.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354287#Comment_122354287

I agree: biologically she is female of course, and I have no objection to her/them competing in the female category.

Still: as someone who declares themselves to have no affinity to other women, Hiltz is a singularly bad example to cite as evidence of what “other women” might feel about biological males participating in female sports categories.

(Assuming that 100% of women must all hold the same opinion on this issue for it to be a valid concern anyway, but that’s a separate problem.)

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354380#Comment_122354380

Still: as someone who declares themselves to have no affinity to other women…

I don’t know that they ever declared or gave any indication of any such thing? The community they refer to includes women, whom they have an affinity with. It was more their experience of competing in women’s sports their whole life that would contrast with what you’re arguing should form the basis of a general presumption about women’s attitudes to biological men competing in women’s sports:

As someone who’s competed in women’s sports my whole life





Hamsterchops

And for the sake of this Olympics we can safely drop the "biological" prefix in swimming & track & field events, for we can safely say men will be competing against men, and women will be competing against women ……

There will be no male athletes in the female category and vice versa.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354478#Comment_122354478

I don’t imagine anyone’s going to notice something which never caught on in the first place, being ‘dropped’, as though it were ever added on.

Redacted Circular

Could handicap the transgenders and the let them compete with the females. Could even things out.

ceadaoin.

Oh look, the women's 5000m record holder at this new Hampshire school, set in 2023, also has the 6th fastest record in the mens division, set in 2022 🤔 the thing that just doesn't happen that much, happened again! Imagine that. With a time that would barely make the top 10 in the mens but is almost a full minute faster than the previous women's record, set in 2018. If only those women would just train harder and get over their mental block of thinking they are biologically different to men they might catch up 🙄

https://www.athletic.net/CrossCountry/TeamRecords.aspx?SchoolID=10711

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356450#Comment_122356450

If only those women would just train harder and get over their mental block of thinking they are biologically different to men they might catch up 🙄

And if politicians and educational institutions actually gave a fcuk about Title IX in your neck of the woods, that would make an even bigger difference in participation rates among women in sports -

During the more than 50 years since its adoption, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 has prohibited discrimination based on sex in activities or programs receiving federal funding. The federal law also mandates “schools to provide equal opportunity based on sex.” The department’s OCR is tasked with enforcing compliance of Title IX.

The report highlighted the persistent gap in college sports participation between women and men. Approximately 93% of colleges saw lower athletic participation rates for women relative to their enrollment rate during the 2021-2022 academic year.

Title IX also requires schools receiving federal funding to have participation numbers of men and women in college sports to be “substantially proportionate to their overall enrollment,” according to the Department of Education.

Yet, women’s overall athletic participation rate fell 14 percentage points behind their enrollment rate in the 2021-2022 academic year, the GAO found.

https://kentuckylantern.com/2024/05/13/even-as-interest-in-womens-college-sports-rises-report-finds-big-gap-in-participation/

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356671#Comment_122356671

colleges saw lower athletic participation rates for women

All other things being equal, maybe women are just less inclined than males to take up sport...

(and maybe more inclined to go on to further education for academic reasons, rather than sports scholarships, which would further exacerbate their different sports participation rates at college level)

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357123#Comment_122357123

But that doesn’t relieve educational institutions of their obligations under Title IX? It’s the responsibility of the educational institutions to create and provide for and promote opportunities for women in sports?

It’s not the athletes or the students themselves who are responsible for any educational institution adhering to the policies under which those same institutions receive federal funding.

It’s precisely for this reason that the GAO stepped in. I don’t think it’s so much a question of all things being equal (they aren’t), but rather a point that what little has changed, has only been to make circumstances worse for women:

At about two-thirds of colleges (63 percent), the rate of women's athletic participation was at least 10 percentage-points lower than their enrollment rate. Further, 40 percent of colleges not only had a large difference between women's athletic participation and enrollment rates, but also offered the same number or fewer varsity sports for women in academic year 2021–2022 compared to 2009–2010.

https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-24-105994

As for the latest individual athlete in question, I dunno did they skip their weetabix that morning at this event where they came in 7th place -

As the sun approached the horizon line the girls lined up to close the day. The girls’ varsity race prediction held true to form, as Madeleine Lane of Hopkinton stormed away to win wire-to-wire in 19:16. With the winners of both races freshmen, the challenge is now on to see if one or both of them can become the first four-time winners of the race. Molly Ellison of Kearsarge spent the entire race in a land of her own, behind Lane but always safely ahead of third. She would eventually cross in 20:08. The next three, Emerald Briggs of Newfound,Shaylee Murdough of Hopkinton, and Aedyn Kourakos of St. Paul’s were packed together the entire race, but always roughly in the same order. NOT staying in the same order was Concord’s Shelly Smith, who, along with most of her teammates, ran smartly conservative races to gradually grind down the competition over 3.1 miles. Her teammates Chloe Gudas (8th) and Quinn Doherty (10th) also scored top-10 medals. Proctor’s Niko Cole-Johnson finished 7th, while Bow’s Julia Hou took home the 9th-place medal. In the team competition, by virtue of placing 5 runners in the top 14, Concord extended it’s win streak to a record-tying 11 wins in a row with 51 points. Hopkinton once again was runner up, with 81 points, to St. Paul’s 107 points.

https://nh.staterunning.net/2023/10/20/results-recap-race-videos-interviews-2023-capital-area/

Hamsterchops

TITLE IX was is of course put in place over fifty years ago (1972) to protect and promote sex based rights including women's sport, and as such it was a Godsend, it's been great and just what women had been waiting for ……

Cut to 2024 and the Anglosphere is being swept with a giant & very powerful ideological wave of sorts, a new and very contentious concept arrives, and the Biden administration alter & compromise Title IX in April this year, by allowing men (who identify as women) into the female category! …. and that's where they are in the USA today!

The fightback had of course begun after the Lea Thomas debacle in the pool, and this latest violation with the reinterpretation of Title IX has only emboldened millions of American women who want their Title IX rights back and restored, and who could blame them? yet the Biden administration won't let go of this madness as it digs in its heels, pulling in one direction, but with millions of Americans fighting back and pulling in the other direction (with the aim of restoring Title IX to its original & intended meaning).

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357153#Comment_122357153

Hadn't heard of her before. But, be honest. You know one race where they perform badly is never going to make the issue go away. Google the name and you'll find plenty of evidence. This post is less than a day old.

On the issue of women's participation in US college sports, one interesting observation Lauren Fleshman makes in her book is the typical college age in the US (and elsewhere) is 18-21, which coincides with peak testosterone production in men. Linear performance improvements in running are the norm at that age in the college system.

Women trying to replicate that (for scholarships, funding etc) often run into a problem where at that age their bodies are developing not for athletic performance but for other reasons and a performance plateau often happens. The reaction to that can be to try and affect the only other biological variable ie bodyweight, and often with disastrous consequences for disordered eating and resulting injuries. Women's peak performance improvements come later in the mid 20's often, long after they have left the college system, or maybe even the sport itself.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357605#Comment_122357605

That's an interesting reflection from Ms Fleshman, and of course it's yet another illustration that we practise sports with our bodies, which are inherently sexed, not with our minds. So how someone chooses to identify is entirely irrelevant to their sporting performance - it is their actual bodies that matter most.

It seems odd to me that it is not self evident to trans rights activists that this is the wrong battle for them if they want to increase acceptance of transgender people generally: women cannot give up this fight because it will be the end of meaningful participation in sports for them if they do. Whereas if activists were genuinely motivated by fears about the safety of trans people, this issue would not be a fight worth wasting their energy on. So why is it so important to them to take on women over female sports categories, rather than to concentrate on male violence against trans people??