Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118855518#Comment_118855518

It's pretty clear they need separate categories for trans athletes, a kind of offshoot of special olympics. Problem might be finding enough participants, particularly M to F, I suspect numbers would drop significantly when they can no longer compete against biological women.

Bridges seems a genuinely rare case of someone who was already a good male athlete and on the one hand would be both disadvantaged now against men but at an obvious advantage against women. Hard one to solve

Overheal

I hate that we even have to talk about this.

The NCAA is a private, nonprofit sports league. They have a right to assemble, and be as inclusive as they want. There is actually conservative political pressure to have the US congress step in and through federal resolution, re-declare the winner of the NCAA race to be someone else. That, is highly ridiculous of course.

Between the book burning and the transphobia - both being intrinsically related to one another, and this, I'd just like to say as an independent observer that my cup runneth over from public pressure to constantly "other" people who don't adhere to mainstream gender norms.

griffin100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858560#Comment_118858560

UCI have stepped in to stop her racing.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858689#Comment_118858689

Apparently, she has been withdrawn from the competition after an issue being raised by the UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale). There are rumours the real reason was a threatened boycott by female riders in the event. Don't know how true that is.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20220330-British-Cycling-calls-for-coalition-to-address-transgender--and-non-binary-participation-in-elite-sports-0

Fandymo

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2022/03/03/oklahoma-republican-bill-block-transgender-athletes-womens-sports-advances-lgbtq/6878671001/

More and more states waking up. 4 down, 46 to go.

ATR72

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/trans-women-in-sports-5724967-Mar2022/?utm_source=shortlink

Article posted on the Journal. This is rubbish. Women's sport has gaining popularity and the inclusion of trans athletes threatens that. An average hurler would crush their opponents in camogie. Hopefully the GAA wouldn't allow it to happen.

DarkJager21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118859997#Comment_118859997

Typical Journal bullshit, a piss streak of an article with absolutely no point other than letting its trans author have a little soapbox rant with the comments closed.

ATR72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860161#Comment_118860161

Afraid of people calling them out on their BS.

DarkJager21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860217#Comment_118860217

Seems to be the standard from them on any trans related article - let them spout their nonsense and pontificate to everyone, and then completely turn off any option to debate or comment so they can rant in a safe space.

JC01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860217#Comment_118860217

Afraid of women and most likely female sportspeople calling them out.

The headline is ridiculous on the day after a women’s football match set a new attendance record too.

Not to mention the talk in the article of “anti-LGBTQ+” legislation and then a comment from the author that they won’t be clarifying what is meant by that phrase. Like me claiming there’s been 100 articles of anti-me legislation passed in Ireland in the last year and it’s anti-me because I say it is.

Wibbs

There are five lights.

This is a woman.

"The party told you to eject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final and most essential command".

Orwell. 1984

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860161#Comment_118860161

That Aoife Martin person has quite the reputation, just ask John Boyne

As you say, opinion pieces in which comments are closed says all you need to know about the quality of the argument

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858690#Comment_118858690

Generally when one has to resort to putting simplistic labels on people any argument has left the building. There are conversations that need to happen in elite sport and being opposed to their inclusion is just a position on what women's sport should be. Incidentally US Swimming recently updated their regulations and it's now out to 3 years plus proof that an athlete has not gained advantage from puberty.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861305#Comment_118861305

Maybe you can help:

Whats the legal definition of a woman?

This had been of great concern to American conservatives too but I couldn’t illicit any of them to produce the definition, despite their outrage that others could not define it either.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861924#Comment_118861924

The legal definition is irrelevant in this context as it's a question of what regulations a sports body defines. They do tend to be grounded in fairness not legality. US State laws can often be made up on account of malice, depending on the state. It's a truly dysfunctional democracy at this point.

KieferFan69

Or males in female sports, it’s a storm in a teacup - you must be weird to care so much - let them fight!!! :)

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861995#Comment_118861995

oh I wish that were the case but since lawmakers now indicate they want the government to intervene and conduct a takeover of the NCAA championship, using Congress to declare the ‘real winner,’ I think it’s entirely relevant.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118862087#Comment_118862087

In the US maybe, otherwise no. The whole political divide is beyond extreme now. There's an awful lot of noise. How do they plan to get Congress involved anyway?

DarkJager21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861599#Comment_118861599

Yep I’m familiar with that situation, deliberately misgendering the man and forcing him off social media. A disgusting **** hypocrite which makes this article even more laughable.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118862100#Comment_118862100

I mean we are discussing a US athlete in a US athletic competition. Among Americans. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Several members of congress want it to pass a resolution declaring a different winner.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861995#Comment_118861995

Sports organisations no matter what jurisdiction they operate in, have to abide by the laws of that jurisdiction in their regulations. It’s true that the legal definition of woman is irrelevant in this context because how State legislators are framing the new laws is in terms of prohibiting participants of the male sex. These laws can be challenged and overturned at Federal level if they are found to be discriminating against any particular group on the basis of sex or gender.

That’s not to suggest that gender trumps sex which is often the argument put forward, but rather saying that both gender and sex are equal characteristics in law same as any of the other characteristics which are the basis of anti-discrimination legislation. There’s a good fact check on the effects of Biden’s Executive Order here which prohibits discrimination against people who are of the male sex, but are also of the female gender. Both sex and gender are grounds for discrimination -

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6686171002

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861305#Comment_118861305

Here's lots and lots of women.

What's your point?

Wibbs

Did any of them start out with or retain a penis, testicles and a Y chromosome? If so they're not women. They can identify as whatever they choose and more power to them, the human race likes that sorta thing, but no amount of current cultural wishful thinking and pseudoscience can change reality and actual science. There are still four lights.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865941#Comment_118865941

Can't you tell just by looking?

Apparently one can always tell. Or so I'm told.

C'mon Wibbs - you started this let's post photos and proclaim a person's gender shite. Proclaim these women's.

Is this a woman?

C'mon - tick the boxes on your little check list there and pronounce.

circadian

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865941#Comment_118865941

And where’s your room for hermaphroditism, abnormal chromosome persons etc?

https://genetic.org/variations/

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866304#Comment_118866304

Can't you tell just by looking?

Apparently one can always tell. Or so I'm told.

This says "Rolex" on the dial. It isn't one.

C'mon Wibbs - you started this let's post photos and proclaim a person's gender shite. Proclaim these women's.

I don't need to. If they're XX chromosome they're women. If they're XY they're not. If they're xxy and so forth they're intersex.

Is this a woman?

C'mon - tick the boxes on your little check list there and pronounce.

Semenya is intersex. XY chromosome, higher testosterone than women, internal testes. Assigned female at birth, likely because of more female looking genitals, which can happen with some intersex folks. Going by the time honoured visuals of "have they a cock and balls? Yes? Boy. Nope? Girl"

As I said they can and should be able to identify as women, or men but they're intersex and clearly this offers advantages in sport(if male is the main leaning).

The swimmer in the thread title is genetically and chromosomally and physically and until recently fully hormonally a man. They went through puberty and were a man until they turned twenty years of age, than by virtue of magical pixie dust say they're a woman and voila! go from meh, to medal winner. A total bloody farce.

If it's all above board and not batshít crazytown why do we hear so very little about Transmen in Male sports? Another way out there crazy notion: Biological women who transition after puberty have none of the advantages in athletic pursuits that going the other direction offers. Even though they take doses of testosterone way above what biological women produce. Any so called "science" that claims otherwise does so because of politics, not reality or actual science, or they're reticent to call a spade a spade because of the screaming backlash of the true believers. Again most of which seem to be Trans women. Trans men are a lot quieter in this gender politics shouting match.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866603#Comment_118866603

They're intersex. These are a suite of genetic faults, congenital disorders, outside the "norm". If someone is born blind because of such things, we don't describe them as sighted. They can identify as sighted and good luck to them, but they're not.

You mentioned the law earlier OH. The history of the law contains a very long list of utterly stupid laws, laws against both humanity and science. In Ireland today I can as a man go and register as a woman and be legally acknowledged as one, even if I do bugger all to live or transition as one. So bearded oul me with all the bits and bobs of maleness all my born days is now "legally" a woman. I can also change my name by deed poll to Prince Wibble the 1st of Dublin and people may do me the kindness of adressing me as such. It won't make me royalty.

Liberty_Bear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865941#Comment_118865941

Pre all this discussion and as mentioned earlier in the thread, when you proclaim biology to be the deciding factor you are on to a losing argument. The evident per my earlier posts show that trans women have the brain structures of their identified gender. This alone is the dictating factor and they just happened to be born in the wrong body. I think your Rolex analogy is also disingenious as a Rolex is defined by a set of mechanics by people, people are dictate to by nature. So ergo your argument is based on a false premise. Quite surprised by you to be honest, expected a more robust argument

Overheal

I'm lost in the attempts to metaphor/equivocate between persons and royalty watches.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118867249#Comment_118867249

The evident per my earlier posts show that trans women have the brain structures of their identified gender.

And yet other and more studies outside the gender politics debate say differently Though the pervasiveness of that politic impinges even there, but to a different end. That our brains are a mosaic of features and that there's no "yep looking at a man's brain here". The "born in the wrong body" argument is specious to say the least. But let's say that there are gendered brains and a brain scan will ping male/female. That trans individual's brains are in the "wrong body". OK then we're talking intersex at the brain level(which would be more along my thinking on this in genuine non dysmorphia type cases). Still doesn't make someone a biological man or woman and this matters in sport, which is what we're talking about here.