Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

Ten of Swords

Mod - There is a lot of bad faith posting going on, and also a lot of "so what you're saying is [INSERT SOMETHING NOBODY SAID]"

It stops now or threadbans can be expected

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454397#Comment_120454397

Just to check we're in the same reality, but you did see that 'billboard chris' made the first move to physicality then it immediately backfired on chris as he got his butt handed to him on a plate?

BruteStock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454663#Comment_120454663

Screaming and spitting obscenities into someones face is abuse. The trans individual made the first move. Nobody should have to stand there and take that sort of abuse. The activist provoked the man into gently defending himself so he had reason to attack him violently . I'm on the side of not abusing people for voicing an opinion.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454415#Comment_120454415

And nobody has come out and refuted the claims either, you'd think someone in the locker room would speak up if there's lies being spread about one of their colleagues

Have you seen the other videos of that night? She was trapped in a side room by a rabid mob for 3 hours, there was what I could only describe as a swat team of over 20 officers called in about 2 hours in to the standoff to aid the not insignificant security that was already there...

Madness

satguy

A Transgender man should not be competing in women's events,, ever..

What if back in the day someone like Mike Tyson wanted to identify as a woman, and was then allowed nearly kill some young girl in the ring.

So maybe its best to keep men out of ladies sports, and also out of their locker rooms too..

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454702#Comment_120454702

Ok, so you're not in the same reality as everyone else, you need to know that because everyone will be responding to you accordingly and you won't understand why.

If you want to go to "first move" it was the billboard exercising their freedom to protest and then the lady protested against that. Billboard made it physical and got smacked down quickly from there.

CatFromHue

The victim blaming in that clip is amazing!

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454775#Comment_120454775

And yet not a single arrest was made despite a team of ‘20 officer swat team’ and a strong significant security and police presence.

All I see are people shouting ‘trans rights are human rights’. And yet we are to believe someone who has continuously made claims that cannot be backed up by anybody.

She made the claim, therefore it’s up to her to prove it. Where is it?

Why are you against evidence? Are you afraid I might be correct?

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454851#Comment_120454851

Making sh*t up again.

Shame on you. Making disgusting claims about me like that.

Riley Gaines is a liar and a grifter. How dare I ask a liar and a grifter for proof she was assaulted.

’Victim-blaming’ - you’re a fool if you think there shouldn’t be a question asked of her. You only give a **** because she’s a transphobic piece of ****.

Glad to know where you stand.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454415#Comment_120454415

Faugheen I’ve seen lots of actual footage of what happened in the university. What do you think happened to Riley Gaines there? Do you think she should be allowed to speak? I can’t make out what your position is exactly on this.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454935#Comment_120454935

Again, to show the reality, I don't think anyone particularly agrees with someone being that in your face and harassing someone, it was all on camera and they could have reported it.

Billboard made it physical which meant they were in the wrong.

That billboard fell foul to harassment by someone else, which they are clearly trying to do themselves with the billboard in the first place, is karma and very few bar the loop-de-loos on the far right will give a second thought about it.

But for the far right, like yourself, it's another set of alternative facts (lies) to get worked up about and then get all hot and bothered when others don't see things the same way and an unwillingness to understand that you're part of that very small hate-filled minority.

That you'll fail to see this and see it as an attack and respond in kind is on you, always on you.

CatFromHue

He didn't even push her, he just put his hand up to stop her getting closer.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455003#Comment_120455003

I don’t know what happened to Riley Gaines. I can’t take her for her word because she seems to be the victim of physical or sexual attacks by trans people every month yet she makes no reports to police and nobody is ever arrested, all while her star and demand for her to spew her hatred on right-wing channels increases.

I have seen zero evidence that she was assaulted. Nobody is backing her up, nobody has been arrested and yet she’s given a free reign on Tucker Carlson to say whatever she wants unchallenged.

She can speak if she wants. However, people are also allowed to protest against her if they choose.

I would hope Riley Gaines isn’t lying, but the fact she would go on Tucker Carlson and not even make a complaint to police suggests to me that there are more sinister, ulterior motives here.

If you have footage of her being assaulted feel free to share it. I honestly have no problem admitting that she was and that the scumbags should be arrested.

However, until such a time comes, or until there is an arrest and conviction, I’ll keep questioning this, and you should too.

BruteStock

In his reflections on evil in The Gulag Archipelago Solzhenitsyn emphasized that all people are capable of evil and that often evil is committed because those involved ignorantly believe themselves to be wholly and unmistakably on the side of good.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455032#Comment_120455032

Billboard made it physical which meant they were in the wrong.

Jesus Christ. She's all but pressed against him just before it happens, her face is so close to his that he's likely being spat on. There was ramping aggression, getting closer, louder. She wanted to hurt the man before she was even near him. In a normal country that would be considered legal assault. Dissenting in a democracy is legal, he wasn't "harassing" anyone". You're purposely misusing legal language in an attempt to seem right. Why don't people like you just come out and say that you want to live in authoritarian state where your side gets to dictate how we all live and interact? I suppose though that would take honesty, something modernists loathe.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454775#Comment_120454775

To be fair they don’t need to refute it but prosecutors need hard evidence to bring forth a charge. If Faugheen is correct and this woman has a habit of making claims of illegal violence that are never followed up on it is specious when there is no direct evidence of the assault alleged especially in the presence of so much security and law enforcement (20+ body cameras? Bueller?). The MediaITE report I shared didn’t corroborate the attack it just reported her claim.

CatFromHue

It's the same as "I'm not touching so you can't get mad" thing kids do.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454706#Comment_120454706

There is no bottom, they truly believe in "by any means necessary" in the most literal sense.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454851#Comment_120454851

That’s another example where, if she wants to allege she was raped during those 3 hours she’d ought to present prosecutorial evidence to court.

Since this isn’t rape being alleged though I see no reason to escalate the rhetoric in the thread to hysterical, counterfactual levels.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455141#Comment_120455141

I’ve seen some hollow rhetoric in this thread but I could reverb the hell out of old man River really well inside of how hollow those words are.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455167#Comment_120455167

You're a fine example of what I'm talking about. Deny, deny, deny, deny, and deny, it's all you do on every single thread. There's no boundaries, nothing is taboo once it comes from "right minded" people. An ideology that makes its followers see everything backwards in the name of furthering its goal, being called "progressive", is possibly the greatest bit of irony in the history man, or history of he/him/her/they.

Faugheen

https://twitter.com/ggxnews/status/1644145754037161985?s=46&t=lJ0bT4fjc4PNeWyBrYCOHQ

Here’s a thread from a student reporter who was actually in the room.

Once again, no reports of any assault taking place.

But yet nobody is allowed to ask any questions of Madam Grifter.

BruteStock

https://twitter.com/OliLondonTV/status/1644428980525625351?cxt=HHwWjsCzqb_cl9ItAAAA

Some crazy is cleary throwing hands , seconds later security rush Gains out of the room because that mob wanted to cause her serious harm.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455267#Comment_120455267

Who’s throwing hands? The person at the beginning? I just see them put their arms up in the air.

You are not living in the real world whatsoever.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455218#Comment_120455218

Did you actually look through those videos? The police/security literally had to negotiate with the rabid protesters to get her out of there safely, the video before that shows them with their arms around her escorting her somewhere. It may not prove 100% physical assault, but it supports that there was a perceived threat to her safety at least. I honestly don't know what in the world makes someone try and defend what we can see in those videos, as it's nothing but disgusting behaviour, assault or not.

BlueSkyDreams

Just my 2 cents worth to this debate, as the thread is supposed to be out trans people in sport but appears to have gone way off topic.

Given that the majority of sporting bodies are now not allowing trans women to compete in female sport, are there any posters that disagree with this approach from those sporting bodies?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455187#Comment_120455187

something something the left is pure evil etc.

You're one for boiling your own kettle there. It's whistling. Please bring something of substance to the thread: facts, figures, news reports, footage. You insinuate I don't do any such thing (only engaging in naked denial, which is demonstrably false).

Lacking any of that all you do is throw out the label like a skeet to shoot and go kapow kapow: It's droll, unconstructive, and doesn't actually prove anything.

"The LEFT!" Bang

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455267#Comment_120455267

Do you have a timestamp or description of the individual in this fracas you are referring to?

No worry if it is "clear" it will thusly be easy to bring charges - are there any?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455343#Comment_120455343

The Biden administration just released a new rule for Public Comment period of 30 days. The Republicans already kneejerk hate it they don't "want girls forced to compete with boys" it's not about girls being excluded from competition it's about having to participate with (inclusive) - seems backwards in principle and perhaps even doomed to fail their appeals against the Biden Administration at supreme court over a number of litmus tests about balancing those rights and forces if that's their tact in court (and the Biden admin didn't just concoct this rule this week or something in reaction to news it's been something he's had WH lawyers drafting and means testing for months at least).

However like I said that appears wholly reactionary and not based on a consideration of the draft rule:

“The proposed rule also recognizes that in some instances, particularly in competitive high school and college athletic environments, some schools may adopt policies that limit transgender students’ participation,” per CNN

https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/fact-sheet-us-department-educations-proposed-change-its-title-ix-regulations-students-eligibility-athletic-teams

The rule makes it clearer when it is logical, and when it isn't, to provide a structure to exclude competitors that, for the sake of argument, have an overwhelming advantage in lung capacity etc. in a given competition. But it also similarly makes clear where it's logical for that not to be the case, where there is no need to be exclusionary, such as in pre-teen sports where for instance, no puberty has occurred and nobody has thusly developed differentiating advantages in sport.

Even if they won't dare agree with me to say so, I warrant there are a number of my mainstay detractors on the thread who would actually take a soft view to this new ruling.

link to the full regulation, the legal background, means-testing and other homework: https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/t9-ath-nprm.pdf

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455439#Comment_120455439

Good post.

I can see the difference between pre teen and the impact of puberty on sports competition, but given that people go through puberty at different ages, I wonder how we would regulate those competitions.

Would it be based on age profile, for instance?

Something like...all children aged 12 or below can compete in a single category that is not segregated by sex or gender, but 13 year olds are divided into female and male and a transgender child must compete within their biological sex category.

I guess that problem with that approach is it still creates a dividing line for transgender kids, but only after they hit puberty. (not to mention that some kids have gone through puberty at aged 10 or 11)

Would the Transgender child then feel more inclusive up until 13 years of age, only to be let down at age 13 when they move to their biological sex category, rather than the category they identify with.

Its a tough one to get right from all perspectives.

BruteStock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455470#Comment_120455470

One other perspective seemingly omitted - is a kid at 12 old enough and mature enough to decide for themselves to embark on life changing gender rearrangement therapy.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455470#Comment_120455470

With Title IX stuff it’s usually about adjudicating on a case by case basis because like you said if you set an age nobody goes through puberty at the same time (the affected people also don’t go through their transition uniformly).

I snipped it from my screenshot but the Biden admin started down making this rule in 2021 and had north of 30k public comments on it and from what I’ve seen this is an accurate depiction of the pluralities feelings about the issue, that there are cases to resolve but an across the board ban across all ages and situations is imho unthinking unfeeling and uncaring.

Overheal

@Faugheen she says she's gonna do it this time...

https://www.mediaite.com/sports/swimmer-riley-gaines-vows-on-fox-to-pursue-legal-action-over-protesters-ambushing-and-terrorizing-her-over-trans-views/

...but she'd hardly be the first guest to ever singularly (or plurally) declare that they were going to bring a case that never materialized. But I figured folks would like the milquetoast update to this story.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455499#Comment_120455499

Allow me to correct that:

my apologies for not posting an image of that down the bottom to the new rule proposal fact sheet.

To be even clearer though this rule is about sports inclusivity/exclusivity, not about gender affirming care.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455548#Comment_120455548

If Twitter and Tiktok is anything to go by then the ratio is overwhelmingly in favour of Riley Gaines based on the footage available from the university. The fact that the security deemed it unsafe for her to leave 3 hours after the original confrontation is enough for most folk. Remember it’s only a tiny blip on the current affairs landscape, for the moment at least.

Protest and the permission to do so is sacrosanct. The behaviour of the trans supporters crossed all kinds of limits though.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455574#Comment_120455574

I'm going to be real honest and say that Twitter and TikTok are not anything to go by.

TikTok even as Republicans tell it is a Chinese Communist Party run/compromised outfit that needed to be banned years ago; and Twitter doesn't represent a vertical slice of American politics as it once did, it had nearly 400M daily active users in January. By March that was less than 240M. Twitter routinely responds to press requests for comment on articles about Twitter now, with "💩"

https://gizmodo.com/elon-musk-twitter-poop-emoji-autoreply-press-email-1850243014

And just this week ripped up the ability to embed tweets on substack articles, which shoulders a huge share of the independent journalism market. Folks will have to check the Elon thread for the whole rundown the past few months, but yeah he hasn't reportedly ever solved any of their bot problems, and he keeps doing things designed to intentionally alienate a lot of people who aren't in the clique or whatever of his technobros and maga heads. I for one, was happy to sit around and watch it burn but when we learned that Twitter had weeks or months prior to Elon telling us been the victim of a major password hack, I nuked the account over the volatility and security.

In conclusion: No, I don't think any ratio'ing on Twitter means as much today politically as it did even 6 months ago.

 The fact that the security deemed it unsafe for her to leave 3 hours after the original confrontation is enough for most folk.

I'll be honest again and say that wouldn't be necessarily enough for court either, you'd have to explicitly tie the individual alleged with the assault with shouldering the actions of everyone in attendance. It's not enough to say "there's a pride parade outside my house, I feel too scared to get milk" or even enough to say a bunch of people outside loudly disagree with your views or think your bombed your rock band set on stage that night in the case of security having to usher out eg. a rock band from an "unsafe" crowd. Lot's of folk may agree with you there but I am more reluctant than you to suggest it would be a majority.

It's going to be an uphill battle to convince jurors that the crowd in the videos shown was particularly violent or bloodthirsty etc, of the ones I saw most just stood and held signs and/or drinks in their hand, the whole back half of this video (you can also see Police present, no arrests reported)

https://twitter.com/davidllamas_/status/1644188996887777280?s=20

Yelling and screaming at someone, in a lot of everyday cases, can be considered assault, that is true. Not when it comes to political speech however, the United States Supreme Court has always come down on the side of political speech in those cases and only sided against when it dealt with imminent unlawful action (many are convinced this SCOTUS would deem Trump's January 6 speech as protected political speech, others argue it incited a violent insurrection attempt). Here the caption says "VIOLENT LEFT MOB" most of the group is nonviolent and saying loudly "Trans women are women" is not assault. So the twitterista's prosecution of the crowd in the court of twitter opinion does not seem to amount to much, in fact.

For her sake if she wants to press charges about the individual, it will be about the individual's actions, not the crowd, or the way the crowd (not the alleged assailant themselves) made them feel, ie. trapped for 3 hours allegedly.

Beasty

The warning was very clear, but the following posters would have been threadbanned regardless of that warning

BruteStock

Dyr

Tipperary animal lover

Potential-Monke

The problem we have is people thinking that shouting abuse into someones face is considered peaceful. It's not.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455548#Comment_120455548

Good. Anyone who committed assault should be punished.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455801#Comment_120455801

Yeah the personal beratement "you bitch" etc. that's much harder to defend in public or in court, and generally some restrictions may apply.

Gaines made herself a public figure though giving public talks about public policy - in the eyes of the law she might have a higher hurdle to climb (just like if someone called Trump a "pussy ass bitch" to his face, it would be politically and legally weak to prosecute that person for criminal assault). The jury (if it gets that far) might also have access to the speech she gave on the night.

Podge_irl

Sports are frequently not segregated pre puberty anyway (or pre a certain age to be more precise)

The original argument was around those who have experienced male puberty not being allowed to compete in women's sports. Which seems to be the end position that sports bodies are in general moving towards.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455850#Comment_120455850

Gaines made herself a public figure by speaking up, let this be a lesson to anyone else who feels the need

Potential-Monke

I was talking more about the mog shouting "Fcuk you" or whatever it was over and over right into his face. That's straight up assault imo. It's indefnsible and defeats any purpose the protestors were there for. Saw the same at the "peaceful" water protests here. Roaring abuse into someones face is "peaceful" and in no way an attempt to invoke a physical reaction.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453369#Comment_120453369

That reminds me, you described her before as "a filthy grifting liar". She is a courageous young woman prepared to speak out when most other women and indeed men, have been bullied into silence by men (I'm guessing) like you.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456170#Comment_120456170

And she has made many claims of sexual and physical assault against her, and has gone running to FOX News instead of police every time.

Nobody will back up her claims. Nobody will stand alongside her and say this is true, and as of today she had refused to go to police, all while she is making a lot of money off this.

So tell me, why should anyone believe she isn’t a filthy grifting liar? It’s immediately out of the right wing grifter playbook. Tell lies that whip up a frenzy among a conservative base and make a **** load of money off it.

She has accused Lia Thomas of some vile, disgusting acts, and yet she will not go to police. Why won’t she?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456165#Comment_120456165

At the same time shouting **** you pig, totally legal.

It's also not against the constitution to yell fire in a crowded theater.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456519#Comment_120456519

I asked where did gaines say thomas flashed her, big difference in saying she saw Thomas's penis and saying Thomas flashed her. The crux of faugheens argument is that gaines lied in saying thomas flashed her, i cant see anywhere that gaines said thomas flashed her just that they had their penis out in the dressing room and she saw it. I could be wrong just cant see anywhere gaines said Thomas "flashed" her as has been stated by faugheen.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456534#Comment_120456534

She said Thomas exposed her penis, and then said it would be 'sexual assault a couple of years ago'.

Put two and two together. You know exactly what she is saying.

Vestiapx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456534#Comment_120456534

She has repeatedly said she undressed Infront of her and that she has full make genitalia, that's flashing even though the term is not being used, do you need me to fing the video cos I could t be bothered but it's out there. As I said the decision in whether it's a make or a female penis is all that matters, if thomas' penis is female then there is no issue but if it happens to be make then it's a crime. Personally I haven't a clue, when my dad was a kid it was Elvis shaking his hips when I was a kid it was backwards messages in (that **** ) lyrics that will drive you to the beast, now it's female penis' and men winning Ng women's golf,

I have no skin in the game, my son seems happy he's a male and as long as I teach him to be respectful of others he will be fine so I'll just follow whatever the lunatics that are running the world decree

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456553#Comment_120456553

You said gaines said thomas "flashed" her, she did not say that, own it and leave it go. She said she was exposed to thomas's penis not thomas exposed her penis. I also did not call you a bully.