Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454798#Comment_119454798

The foremost factor in fascilliating transgnder athletes in sports participationis is maintinaing fairness for everyone.

I disagree, the foremost factor in facilitating anyones participation in sports is maintaining the image of the sport. In order to maintain that image, politics are the most influential factor. It’s for this reason that national governing bodies of any sports may have different rules which depart from international governing bodies rules in competition and so on. It has nothing to do with any consideration of extending the principles of fairness to everyone who wants to participate in the sport, regardless of their gender or sex.

Your whole “that tells me more about your own obsessions” is nothing more than an attempt to delegitimise the perspectives of anyone who doesn’t share your opinions. Your opinions are no more valid than anyone who doesn’t share your opinions. What you’re attempting to do is like suggesting the IOC doesn’t know what they’re talking about because they’re not only considering the factors which you consider relevant. They’re quite aware there are social factors which are relevant to anyones participation in sports, and they’re quite aware of the impact of sports in societies where people are discriminated against on the basis of their sex, gender or sexual orientation.

It’s why for example for the Olympics in Tokyo, one of their aims was gender equality, which they achieved by configuring the qualifying criteria for each nation participating at the Olympics, even going so far as to allow athletes from Russia to compete under a different national team name, just as long as it wasn’t Russia, because to exclude them from participation by associating them with Russia, would not have been fair to those athletes.

Seb might well have no interest in the opinions of what he calls second-rate sociologists (who coincidentally don’t agree with his perspective), but that doesn’t mean they aren’t going to continue to point out that the rules which disproportionately affect athletes on the basis that they are transgender, is unfair to those athletes.

Pussyhands

https://twitter.com/IrishWomens/status/1557353391721947138?t=3jLkWrmOWERu0xupSpCmqw&s=19

It's funny seeing people who were all about trusting science and medical advice during covid are now supporting the above viewpoint. Richard Chambers for example liked the above tweet.

These people are only pro science when it suits them.

Well done to the irfu!

Gatling

Irish women's rugby supporters club unverified account and likely has feck all to do with women's rugby here

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455068#Comment_119455068

As if you’re not “pro-science” (Jesus Christ I hope that term doesn’t get legs) when it suits? 😏

I’d no idea who Richard Chambers was or why he was worth mentioning for liking a tweet written by representatives of Irish Women’s Rugby, so I looked him up….

Virgin Media reporter Richard Chambers opens up on relationship with author Louise O'Neill

https://www.irishmirror.ie/showbiz/irish-showbiz/virgin-media-reporter-richard-chambers-25290334.amp

Ahh, six degrees of segregation going on there methinks 😂

Annasopra

Shameful bigotry

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455068#Comment_119455068

Interesting how antivaxxers, climate deniers etc. suddenly are sailing on the USS Science when it has some specious nonsense to propel transphobia with.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455340#Comment_119455340

The irfu and many other major sporting organisations are transphobic now?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455351#Comment_119455351

I meant the user trying to make a dunk on vaxxers, who by inference is peddling antivax/pro-covid nonsense.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455340#Comment_119455340

All the slurs in the world don't change reality - regardless of feelings, you cannot change biological facts.

CatFromHue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455068#Comment_119455068

Where the female athletes have been polled for their opinion of transwomen in the female category in their sport they've answered very strongly against it. Even last week with World Triathlon changing their rules the President of the Athlete's Committee voted against them.

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455126#Comment_119455126

To be fair transgender advocates are pro science too when it suits them.

Without science there'd be no such thing as transgender only people with gender dysphoria who identify as the opposite gender.

Richard Chambers is no less relevant to the thread than the Italian athlete you brought up.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455312#Comment_119455312

No just common sense which should have been applied since day one ,they can still play rugby,

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455648#Comment_119455648

To be fair transgender advocates are pro science too when it suits them.

That’s not actually a question of fairness though. Everyone is “pro” whatever supports their argument, and “anti” whatever doesn’t. Those are political positions, best not confused with science, or you end up in a position where it can be argued that women are inferior to men, blacks are inferior to whites, y’know, all sorts of pseudoscientific bunkum which has all sorts of implications for social policy, or in this case, sports policies. Were it not for the fact for example that Darwin’s ideas about men and women were challenged by someone who was not a scientist, who knows where we’d be?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/woman-who-tried-take-down-darwin-180967146/

Without science there'd be no such thing as transgender only people with gender dysphoria who identify as the opposite gender. 

Ohh I don’t know ‘bout that now. Ideas about gender roles and stereotypes and all that sort of good stuff exists in many cultures around the world and throughout history long before 20th century psychosexual analysts like Freud cobbled together complete nonsense that was based upon the science of it’s time, and boy did he have some absolute bangers, not entirely different from the kind of nonsense that’s bandied about by some people claiming to be scientists today -

From those explanation above, it can be concluded that Freud’s theory on Human Psycho-Sexuality is very bias and patriarchal. Some bias genders constructed In Freud’s concept on human Psycho-Sexual Development are (1) Anatomy is destiny; (2) Men’s superego develop more than women; (3) women are easies to be neurotic than men; (4) some strereotypes of women as residual effects of Penis Envy; and (5) the theory of Oedipus and Electra Complex.

Freud’s thought on human psychosexual development above is definitely influenced by social and cultural conditions in which Freud was born. Hence, according to Betty Freidan statement, Freud’s notion is formed by the culture which he described as a Victorian and patriarchy; social and cultural conditions in which the male figure is the dominant figure over women in various ways (Susan Oliver, 2008: 34). Men are the most superior human types. When co-opted by the mainstream thinking patterns and patriarchal Victorian view of the above, it can be ascertained if then Freud’s concepts looked more exalting the male figure and despise the existence of women.With this condition, of course standpoint of Freud’s thought is a scientist who is not able to think objectively, because he got some difficulties to release the standpoint of patriarchate in each postulate and theory. However, Freud’s explanation is intended to open up a more comprehensive understanding of the concept of sexual development, in particular the concept of Freud’s Penis Envy. Hopefully, through this study, psychologists after Freud do no longer make mistakes in using Freud’s theories, no longer discusses the development of the theory of women with male development. Because if it is done by generalizing Freud’s theory for all women and men, they will have actually done a methodological error.

https://journal.iainkudus.ac.id/index.php/Palastren/article/download/3315/3693

Richard Chambers is no less relevant to the thread than the Italian athlete you brought up.

My bringing up the Italian athletes wardrobe malfunction was intended to be taken as tongue-in-cheek humour. It wasn’t intended to be taken seriously. I could see no relevance whatsoever for Richard Chambers being mentioned, other than we all know who wears the trousers in that relationship! 😏

Dammit there I go again 😂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455312#Comment_119455312

How is sex segregation of sports, which has existed for a very long time for a reason, shameful bigotry?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456073#Comment_119456073

"How is slavery racist, we've always done it?"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456083#Comment_119456083

Christ, actually comparing forced, unpaid labour and denial of liberty, accompanied by violence and starvation... with sports being segregated based on biological sex.

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456083#Comment_119456083

Do you think sports being sex segregated is wrong?

CatFromHue

I don't understand why you keep bringing racism into this conversation.

The reasons we segregate by biological sex is that it is the defining characteristic when it comes to physical performance.

Slavery was stupid and people realised it years ago. The reasons why people thought it was a good idea were disproven and are still stupid now.

Segregating by sex when it comes to sport is in no way comparable to segregating by race or slavery.

JayRoc

I'll be absolutely honest; when I saw the photos from the lgfa final in question I assumed it was a laughable attempt by right-wing nutjobs to foment some sort of controversy by photoshopping a guy into a ladies football match.

The pics in question were discussed on a family whatsapp group I am in (due to our connections with ladies gaelic football). Everyone on the group is literally a card-carrying leftie of one type or another, and initially none of us believed it wasn't a wind-up.

That a tiny, tiny, tiny group of shouty people on the internet could alienate such people (who all would, by tradition and instinct, side with almost any minority cause or underdog) so well shows this nonsense for what it is.

I was attending another lgfa final at the same time this game was played and I still can't understand how the ref, the coach of the other team, and their players allowed it, to be honest. If he/she/whatever refused to leave the pitch the game should have been abandoned.

Someone said earlier that it was ultimately a good thing it happened and I have to agree. That anyone could call another person a bigot for saying a bald man in his 40s shouldn't be on a Ladies Football pitch... I mean, you are literally proving how ludicrous all this is. No one will ever take anyone seriously who says stuff like that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456117#Comment_119456117

I mean, I wonder what the African American people who want sport to be segregated by sex, would make of such an offensive analogy.

But those are the kinds of arguments bandied about. It has reached peak absurd. And again, not a hoot given about the women who train their butts off, only to have their chances jeopardised.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456161#Comment_119456161

The problem though is that some people do pretend to take it seriously. They are that enslaved to ideology.

I mean, I have no problem calling a trans woman who has had the surgery and hormone therapy, a woman - but stating that a man, who simply announces that he feels like a woman, IS a woman... it's just offensive to me.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456095#Comment_119456095

First time here?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456091#Comment_119456091

Oh man maybe you could try better to explain why "it's the way we've always done things" is a valid argument instead?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456117#Comment_119456117

Because some people can't seem to grasp the bigotry:

How is sex segregation of sports, which has existed for a very long time for a reason, shameful bigotry?

But I guess y'all found the juxtaposition personally offensive? Are the Negro Leagues too uncomfortable a fact either? Let's keep pretending like Sports Leagues are grand arbiters of cultural enlightenment.

Strumms

Usain Bolt at 19.19 holds the mens 200m world record.

Florence Grifith Joyner holds the woman’s record 21.34.

a sizable 2.15 second difference…. Over just 200 meters.

If Bolt wants to become transgender….how is that fair on the rest of the women competitors.

its not.

therefore it should be prohibited.

CatFromHue

Have you forgotten we went through this very point already?

The defining characteristic when it comes to physical performance is biological sex, not race.

The female category exists so that females can compete against other people of the same sex. The same way that the male category exists so that males can compete against other people of the same sex.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456344#Comment_119456344

It would be unfair to them you say

but why not unfair to the white racers he is also faster than? Black runners have held the 200m mens record for 28 years! Shouldn't for the sake of their fairness they be put into their own white/negro racing divisions? If not why are Trans any different

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456161#Comment_119456161

I thought the same. I thought it was some fella taking the mick of that club who said we accept whatever you identify as.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456326#Comment_119456326

Oh man…

😁

In other light-hearted and not entirely unrelated variations on a theme, I found this one more relatable than I’m willing to admit to -

The above perfectly illustrates the preposterousness. That person is doubling down on their pretence that the reason for sports being segregated by biological sex is due to bigotry. When it's (obviously, as we all know) due to differences in the male body and the female body - namely men being physically stronger than women. Again, we all know this, but the deflecting, gas-lighting and misrepresentation compels feeling the need to spell out the bloody obvious, in order to defend oneself from the lies. That's the only reason for sports being segregated by sex - it's for fairness towards women. It's the opposite to bigotry. And unlike slavery, there's no beatings, brandings, killings, starvation, shackles, chains or crippling hard labour.

Then he moves to the tactic of pretending that the reason people take issue with his utterly nonsensical comparison of slavery to the above is because a nerve has been jarred. Even though it was plainly outlined how there is no comparison between the two (obviously). And then brings in the Negro leagues, when that was segregation due to skin colour, which doesn't give someone a physical advantage or disadvantage in sport - so again, another invalid comparison. And he knows this - but he's just clinging to an ideology, however absurd his arguments are gonna be, however spiteful it makes him.

It's really vindictive stuff - and I'd bet he thinks he's really feminist.