Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119457349#Comment_119457349

Let's just take the line of thought to the end and skip all the "segregationist" in-between bit then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpWpIw7rETg

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458627#Comment_119458627

The USA ladies team generates greater views and revenue than the mens team (success begets success), they did however choose to go on lower paid guaranteed salaries vs. the bonus related salaries that the men have (the men generally have their club wage to fall back on as well).

As was pointed out earlier, a big problem for women's sport has been gaining an audience, they are typically marketed the same as the mens and are going after the same set of male eyeballs, women don't watch women play sport in as great numbers and there will always be pay/wage disparity where this exists (with exceptions where audiences are comparable). Even with football sponsorship tv advertisting, 90% of it is gambling, take aways and cars which are male oriented and much lower value "views" than a comparably watched female oriented show.

Sunny Disposition

That there needs to be such an argument is crazy, obviously athletes who went through male puberty would dominate women's sport if they were allowed into it.

There’s nothing controversial about that, anyone who follows a couple of sports knows that. People who argue that is not the case need to be treated with a great deal of suspicion.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458627#Comment_119458627

If you mean mixing the sports and essentially removing women's sports as I believe you have suggested in the past, then men won't even notice. It literally won't make a difference to them at all.

No the sports and category labels could stay as they are, it would be the participants which would be different, and not for a minute do I imagine the participation rates among either men, women, boys or girls would be so different that it would be to the detriment of anyone or the sports or competitions in which they choose to participate.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458669#Comment_119458669

That’s not taking any line of thought I’ve suggested to it’s logical conclusion? What you’re doing is like suggesting that the logical conclusion of giving anyone a baseball bat is that they won’t use it for the purposes for which it is intended. Just because that’s a thing in American fraternities doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t let anyone play baseball, or go to college for that matter, lest they be “initiated into manhood” by a small number of fcuknuggets who imagine themselves as being descended from Greek nobility.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazing

mikethecop

Is there any issues being raised where female to male trans players want to play in male contact sport ?

where they would be at a major physical disadvantage and risk . or is it only the other way around where the trans player would be the one with the advantage ?

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458984#Comment_119458984

Something something toilets.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458984#Comment_119458984

At the moment it mainly seems to the male to female trans want to play in women's sports but I would say the same risks as being discussed now would also arise in the opposite scenario. Either way it is dangerous especially in contact sports.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458984#Comment_119458984

It's barely a thing. Take a guess as to why.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119458749#Comment_119458749

Maybe some do but I doubt most. Those who argue that people should be included in teams according to their gender rather than biological sex are trying to be nice at best (but only in one direction) or slaves to ideology (because once an idea is progressive/far left, they're down with it, no matter what) at worst, and will lie, bully, gas-light, distort as much as they like, while thinking they're good people.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459285#Comment_119459285

Contact sports by their very nature involve a degree of safety risks, and measures to mitigate those safety risks which have developed over time to include changes to the rules, protective headgear and so on.

There may well be few transgender athletes right now who wish to participate in the men’s competitions, but they do exist, and there are a couple of reasons why they aren’t more visible in sports -

https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/18802987/mack-beggs-transgender-wrestler-change-laws-watch-wrestle-boys

I’d liken it to the observation that there aren’t many openly gay men in soccer and there are some plausible explanations -

• No interest in playing soccer
• Being made to feel like they don’t belong in soccer
• The perception that soccer is a man’s game, for the manliest of manly heterosexual men to engage in all manner of homoerotic rituals and they’re just not into that sort of thing
• Risk of being outed
• Risk of physical, mental or emotional abuse
• Risk of being injured

I’ve no doubt everyone has their own individual reasons for why they do or don’t wish to participate in any given sports.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459425#Comment_119459425

Do we have to guess because saying it out loud is bigoted and transphobic? You think trans are only trans to cheat? Don’t make us guess, tell us what you really feel.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459485#Comment_119459485

I don't think that's what he's saying. He's saying that trans men don't compete with men in contact sport because of the risk of injury to them.

There's also a factor of the trans man having less strength and stamina meaning they have to work much much harder to keep up.

I suspect its those two factors that discourage trans men from competing with men. It's worth noting that the IRFU will permit this, subject to assessment to ensure the safety of the trans man.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459485#Comment_119459485

Misrepresenting is all you folks have.

Because female bodied athletes don't have the physical strength to compete against male bodied athletes. Obviously. As we all know. You can pretend this is only bigotry all you like, even though it's an extremely dishonest take, but it's just biological reality that male bodied people are physically stronger than female bodied people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459547#Comment_119459547

Exactly. This should be obvious, but Overheal is out to nitpick things he can shout "bigot!" about. Although I'm actually a she - just saying, as it's kinda funny given the thread. 😊

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459558#Comment_119459558

You told me to use my imagination now you complain when I use it. Rich

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459642#Comment_119459642

When asked to use your imagination you default to considering someone with a different opinion to you to be a bigot.

Says more about you tbh.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459687#Comment_119459687

LMFAO okay.

Also, I didn't realize you were their official spokesperson.

I don't think that's what he's saying.

hahaha

I noted you didn't get their gender right, either, while you were pretending to be so sure about them and what they were even saying

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459771#Comment_119459771

Why has someone gone and made that list? Is it because when it happens it's because it's exceptional?

When Billy Jean King beat Riggs (world no.2 at the time), she was 29, he was 55.

If there were no difference there would be no need for segregation by sex at all? Is that what you want?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459842#Comment_119459842

Wow, we're going after the listicle writers now with hushed whispers and conspiratorial innuendo?

This is getting truly desperate.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459866#Comment_119459866

You brought up the "listicle" and I am not sure what the hushed whispers and conspiratorial innuendos in that post are supposed to be?

The list includes a WWE participant who won a staged fight ffs.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459895#Comment_119459895

It also includes a Boxer, American Footballer, Tennis Player, Nascar Driver, 2 Baseball pitchers, Horse Jockey, Surfer, Extreme Sailer, and 2 Gold Medalists. But sure let's impugn Chyna for being a performance wrestler.

Any one of these examples, if true, obliterates this bigoted notion:

Because female bodied athletes don't have the physical strength to compete against male bodied athletes. Obviously. As we all know.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459895#Comment_119459895

The list includes a WWE participant who won a staged fight ffs.

Have to admit, I balked at that entry myself 😂

For me the whole idea of comparisons and lists and broad generalisations about men and women is just ripe for cherry picking, ignoring the reality that there are a multitude of factors which influence anyone’s attraction to any sport in the first place, let alone the idea of whether or not they could be considered talented enough to be competitive, and whether it was possible to develop that talent to drive them to elite status in the sport or sports or whichever events they chose to compete in.

These sort of pound for pound boxing and athletic sprinter times and all the rest of it would under no circumstances constitute credible scientific evidence of anything. It’s literally either too broad, or too specific, but in most cases the comparisons simply lack context, which is why an entertainment industry masquerading as a sport throws up the sorts of anomalies like Chyna and that other Irish wrestler, Becky Lynch, who refers to herself as “The Man” -

https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe/wwe-why-becky-lynch-called-the-man

Whatever floats your boat I guess 😒

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459955#Comment_119459955

Yes, an American footballer who kicker a point. About the most individual task someone in sports can do and not really an example of competing against men.

The tennis player was, as previously mentioned, a player in their prime against a 55 year old.

The baseball players were someone drafted into a mixed team, and someone who did well in an exhibition game.

The jockey seems to have done exceptionally well, fair play to her.

The surfer is notable for winning entry into a male competition. For the record they have a women's division the last two years and she won it (ten years after qualifying for the male tournament).

One of the Olympians was in skeet shooting - I see no reason to have segregated sports here so well done to her.

This is not a particularly good argument for the idea of non-segregated sports.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119460135#Comment_119460135

Whether you feel it carries through to desegregation of the sports, you should at least be able to acknowledge it carries through to defeating the blanked statement made earlier.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119460143#Comment_119460143

No it doesn't.

Like for like, female athletes can not compete for strength with male ones. An individual example of someone defeating that statement does not "defeat" the statement, but even if it did absolutely none of those examples do that anyway. They are, at best, an example of the top percentile of female athletes overlapping a lower percentile of male athletes.

I am completely comfortable stating that in the absence of segregated sports, women would win <1% of all Olympic medals for example. That makes the statement pretty fair.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119460169#Comment_119460169

Like for like, female athletes can not compete for strength with male ones. 

This is a nonsensical statement. If they are like for like competitors they have like for like strength.

Modern sports records cover hundreds of thousands of athletes. We have records of every game ever played, the best times in every event, world records, etc.

So a list of 12 times a women beat a man does not make the point you think it does. It undermines your position.

It's like a human racing a horse 100,000 times and he wins once then says "see? humans are just as fast as horses!"

(The list is dubious also.)

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119460195#Comment_119460195

Yet you all argue edge cases at the top 1% of competition sport like Usain Bolt as well to exclude trans athletes at all competitive levels from the competition. Thanks for helping me illustrate.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119460179#Comment_119460179

Not a single woman will be in the top 1% of basically any Olympic sport. The top female X will not be in the top 1000 male X - this is true for almost all sports. That is what I mean by like for like.