Need some advice - Looking for pay rise

gibgodsman

I started working for the company in 2018, was supposed to come in as a sales rep, I stupidly allowed myself to work full time on only 21.5k a year to begin with with "commission based" being part of my salary also. The company only had 1 full time employee apart from me and 1 very very part time, only called in when needed.

Within the first month I knew the commission was never going to happen as the company had gone through some turmoil back in 2017 and sales was the least of its worries.

I began to fix a lot of the issues in the business within my first year, increasing sales, building new customer relations, building supplier relations, which were damaged in 2017 before my time. I had a Honours degree in Business with I.T so I wasn't going into this position with no knowledge. I also started saving the business money too by sourcing much better pricing for the materials we need to run a business.

In 2019, there a year and still on 21.5k I mustered the courage to request a salary increase, feeling my work spoke for itself. Was met with "Well if you need an increase, I don't think there is a future here for you", I accepted that and just said, right so and walked back into my office, 3 hours later I get a phone call, I will get my increase but in 2 increments, one immediately, and one in 6 months time, went from 21.5k - 23.5k in the first, and the 2nd supposed to be 25k. I did request 25k as I knew the 21.5k I was on even to begin with was very very low, below minimum wage in the current market.

In 2020, obviously Covid hit and my 2nd increase was delayed, I never stopped working, worked from home throughout the lockdowns and anything below level 4 I worked from the office. In the lockdown time I created an entire product price list for everything the company sold, its a printing company, and they had a serious issue of relying on our CEO, who mostly works out of the country, to create a price per job, sometimes having to wait days while a customer comes in to be told, to wait for a simple price.

We now use that price list which has basically took the CEO out of having to do any day to day work with us as I also took over all customer invoicing for the business.

Summer of 2020 I got my 2nd increment in the increase to 25k, all be it 6 months late I was happy to get it as it was beyond a struggle to even live with such a low salary paying rent etc.

While a lot of companies have struggled during Covid, we have actually done quite well, massively increasing our customer base outside what would have been our usually tiny but repetitive business by doing online sales. I have took over all I.T aspects of the office too saving the owner substantial money in the process. I deal with all Invoicing, I am the head of purchasing, pricing, customer accounts, I.T, stock control and so much more, having only been employed as a sales rep.

Now to 2022, still on 25k, working my absolute behind off, we now have 4 Full time employees and 2 Part time, steadily growing as a company that was no doubt losing between 30-40k a year to a company that made around 25-30k in profit in 2021 even after employing 3 new staff and purchasing 3 brand new printers all while being basically closed from January - May while still paying Salary's, Rent etc.

I am without a doubt the busiest person in our office, with the most responsibility and I know I am paid at least 7k less than the "Manager" who I basically took all responsibilities off since 2020. I am 27, saving for a mortgage, engaged and just trying to build up the courage and reasoning to ask the CEO for a raise. One of our new employees, who works 97% of the time from home, is on 24.5k, they have no experience in the job they are doing and no college degree and that is really getting to me as I am putting so much effort in only for someone new to come along and start off where I worked 3 years to get to, they also work from my office when they attend work, maybe once a month to say hi, and their volume of work is about 30% of mine currently.

Should I just accept my Salary at the moment or should I look for that raise? If I should look for the raise, how should I go about it and how much should I look for? I would need as close to 30k as I can get, if not more to be able to afford a Mortgage, I like the Job and like the "Manager" I work with, but I feel so under valued as an employee its unbelievable, its outside of Dublin, so I cannot look for too much. Any help is greatly appreciated

MakersMark

You need to be able to walk away ftom this job.

As described, it's a nightmare.

I cant understand why your pay is so low.

Time to move on my friend.

miamee

You are doing an awful lot for very little reward. If you get on well with the manager you should be able to have a frank conversation with him/her about the value you have added to the company. Don't make it sound like you've 'saved' the company singlehandedly even if you think that is the case as you will devalue the manager's and other employees work and they may not like that but if you can point very specifically to things you have improved or changed that have led directly to increased profits or money savings, that would help your case.

As the previous poster has said, you do need to be prepared to walk away from that job if they say no to you. Realistically, if you left would they be able to hire someone to do all of the same work for the same money? They'd probably need to hire two people and it'll cost them more in the end than to give you a €10k payrise (for example). You should absolutely be earning in the 30ks for the work you do if everything you have posted here is true so I'd ask for more than you expect and give them to room to wiggle a bit.

At the end of the day, it's all about money for a business.

You've brought in extra money and clients

You've saved them money on different processes

You've saved the CEOs time so he can do other things

If you leave they won't be able to replace you for the same money or with just one person - giving you a payrise will save them money and a big headache in the long run.

Don't forget to tell the manager that you do actually enjoy working there and would hate to have to look elsewhere but that you might have no choice.

gibgodsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118453030#Comment_118453030

I appreciate the advice, when it comes to the job itself, I do like it, I don't think I would get the chance to have the kind of experience I have currently at any other company in terms of doing everything basically, its also quite close to where I live which is a huge bonus as I hate commuting.

The Job market at the moment is also quite scary to me, so unsure how many businesses will hire only to close down due to all the issues at the moment around the world, and I feel like that is preventing me from really wanting to look elsewhere at the moment as I have no backup if I am unemployed for a period of time, no family to support me etc. Was a child of the state from age 11

Dublinandy3

The job market is really strong at the minute in a lot of sectors, I don't know yours but I wouldn't fear about moving.

It costs nothing to have a look around and even apply while still in your current role. While a risky move if you do get an offer elsewhere that would be your strongest hand to play, ask for the raise matching at least the new position, with a quick decision, if they delay or say no, move.

If you look for another job and never find one that suits or can't get one then your employers are none the wiser.

SteelyDanJalapeno

You're incredibly underpaid

You hardly went to college and graduated with an honours degree to earn 450 euro per week, you'd get more stocking shelves in Aldi.

Not trying to make you feel bad, but it sounds you're worth a lot more than you're current compensation

bucketybuck

You are a fool. I mean that in the nicest way possible.

We cannot get staff at the minute and are bringing in untrained people on €30-35k plus, trying to train them up into our business. If you are doing everything you say you are for less than 25k then you are making an arse out of yourself.

Put in that effort for me and we would be talking €40k plus within 12 months and I would be happy to pay it.

Forget about begging for a raise, get yourself out the damn door and stop being taken advantage off.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058227100/need-some-advice-looking-for-pay-rise

no reflection on you, but you are going nowhere, i was in the same boat and quit and never looked back

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454715#Comment_118454715

At the very least , go and see what's out there in terms of other opportunities.

It's always a good thing to "test the market" and see what you're worth.

Based on the description of what you do I'd say you are at least 50% below what the market would pay for the same work.

As others have said , the Market is quite strong right now so get out there are see what's on offer , you'll never get paid your value in that organisation by the sounds of it so get your CV freshened up and get it out there.

Dymo

Don't worry OP you're not a fool, you landed yourself in a position that I think you like and you have had success from it but you feel your not getting the reward that you think you should.

This happens often in companies your worth isn't always equivalent  to your salary. From the your boss's point of view he got you cheap and anything he can save from your wages goes back to him. Forget about how well the company is doing now, new printers come from profits he's gotten from your lower wages.

With the other people employed, he wasn't able to get them as cheap it doesn't matter what there level of work is, if he could of gotten them cheaper he would of.

Negotiating a pay rise will be difficult as he's going to see it as you're talking money off for the same amount of work it doesn't matter what other people are earning in the company that's already an expense he knows about.

Your best action is to try to throw an alternative on the table, if you had another offer then you will be in a better position to negotiate a raise if that's what you want. Work out your value to the company and how much it will cost your employer to replace you. You can try being nice and ask for a review but I'm getting the feeling they will try to low ball you again.

Employers don't pay a persons value but pay how much they feel they need to pay to keep them in the position.

893bet

You have learned loads.

Leaving is the only way you will get your worth. They might after all of arguing give you an extra 5-10k. I suspect 5. If your manager is (was) only on 32k they are also underpaid for a managers position (maybe over paid if they are doing **** all).

Move and in the right job you might get 10-20k pay rise.

gibgodsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454490#Comment_118454490

Quite a good way to look at it, thanks for the advice, I accepted the small pay to start with as I was on Jobseekers after finishing college and had a bad experience with the Bank job I landed in afterwards, was told one location I would be working in only to find out the 2nd day I would be moved to another nearly 2 hours further away so I had to leave it, which would have been my dream job

But with everything getting more expensive, rent, bills, food etc, and I am engaged trying to save for a mortgage and wedding also, 25k can only go so far, I just worry about being told no, or getting too little, I know I cannot expect a huge increase, but anywhere near 30k would suit me, would significantly help with obtaining a better Mortgage, we have the deposit, more than enough for it, but cannot get enough from a bank for the remainder

Kevhog1988

Hi OP,

I was in a similar position where i worked for a family Company straight out of college. What was good money when i left college was soon bypassed by my peers who moved up the increment scales at larger companies. The experience you have gained now is invaluable and will definitely stand to you in the future but your future has to be outside of that business if you are going to earn to your potential. In my case the head of the company only viewed me as the young relative rather than the person who was running their business and i would say your CEO is cut from the same cloth. i left the company i worked for in 2018 and doubled my salary in 4 years. I would say considering your obvious talent you would be in a position to do similar.

Best of luck in your decision but i would strongly advise you to move on.

Buddy Bubs

Move on, or at least start looking to move on and see what kind of salary you could get elsewhere. Then make a decision to go or stay and leverage other offers. I perform a similar role to you but in a bigger company, I'm general manager and am involved in IT, HR, Accounting, payroll, premises issues, vehicles, boring admin stuff, special projects and generally everything to keep the company afloat......everything apart from sales really as we have plenty of others for that. I was on 64k plus perks up to December 2021 and have now moved up to 76k for this year to reflect the efficiencies and profitability I have added....a bit like you. We have some very limited admin staff (ability wise) in narrow, focused jobs that do however work hard and are earning mid 30s. I'd fully train someone else up in them in a few weeks.

Baffles me you would stay there and struggle for a mortgage. You're there a few years, sounds like pay increases are going to be a slow painful process to get.

whippet

look at it as a few years of unrivalled experience and proof that you are no stranger to hard work.

Get the CV updated, make sure you put in all the soft skills that you have used over the last few years and get out there and test the waters. from what you said - you are pissing in to the wind thinking that you will be rewarded for what you are doing. The company have shown that they will eek out as much as they can paying as little as they can.

I recently moved jobs after being in the same place 20 years - while I was well looked after and really enjoyed myself I wanted to move in to a fairly specific role rather than being a jack of all trades. I couldn't believe how good the job market is at the moment and I managed to secure a very good role, significant pay increase and fingers crossed more job satisfaction.

mistress_gi

My experience as always been if you want a proper pay raise, leave, maybe come back in the future and let them know how much you're willing to get paid to come back.

Your skills seem highly transferrable to any business so I'd leverage that.

Send a few CVs around and test the market, you have a job so you loose nothing by doing so.

You do have a lot to gain in return though.

You’ve gained huge experience in a small company- now it’s time to move on. I guarantee you they will offer you a raise as you start to walk out the door but it will be too little too late- they are totally aware of the caipibre of person you are but obviously they’re not willing to pay going rates.

get another job- then hand in your notice

gibgodsman

Ill try reply to here for all the comments above, too many to quote each but ill try make a comment on all points.

While unbelievable that I am doing everything I stated, truth is I am doing everything, and more, I feel like the experience of doing so is completely in valuable which is why I allowed myself to do it, and I can do it quite well and quite quickly as I am never really falling behind, even when in busy periods.

As for the comment about being a fool, I completely agree, I do feel daily that I am being taking advantaged off hugely and to be honest I don't really know how to get out of it, I can leave the job, I accept that is an option, but that will also delay any Mortgage talk as I will have to be employed for, I think, a full year before being able to apply for one.

There is also the fact, while annoyed about the pay, I really do enjoy the job, and the people I work with, and most importantly, the distance from my home, 20 minutes, on a bike.

Just last month I built a PC for a new member of staff with parts I ordered from Amazon, set up everything including office, windows etc, no doubt saving the CEO a few hundred euro he would have had to spend on a pre build, simply things like that, that is not my job, but I do because I know it saves the company money in the end.

Before I made this thread I expected maybe my salary should have been around the 33k mark or so, but based on what the feedback is here I am very underpaid which makes me feel even more dumb for allowing myself to be put in this position. My partner is quite against me leaving my job as she worries I will hate my next one and struggle, for context my background is quite unique, in foster care at 11, moved out on my own at 17 and rented ever since, finishing college at 21 with my first real job, this one, being started at 24. I never really had or came from money so I don't really have an understanding of what my experience or skills are really worth in a job sense

MTU

On your experience you should get pay rise once you’re all vaccinated.

NSAman

Man,

i would hire you in a heartbeat.

27 and earning 25k, your boss needs a kick in the arse.

if he doesn’t give you a pay rise, leave. If he cannot see the benefits of what you have brought to the business he is a fool to not raise pay.

question, seeing as you have taken much of the work off the manager, what the hell is he doing?

from an employers viewpoint (and I say this as someone who values employees and is finding good people hard to find) you are an asset and an asset that should be appreciated. If you have brought higher levels of income, reduced others work and increased the customer base, that MUST be recognised.

gibgodsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455202#Comment_118455202

Where you based? 😂

The "Manager" was basically the office manager, in charge of staff, dealing with customers, ensuring jobs are completed and quality checked among other things like maintaining the office etc, he is also the graphic designer for the printing company.

He now only really graphic designs and sort of maintains the office, with my help, all the other jobs are basically mine now, I don't even call him my manager anymore as hes not, the CEO is my supervisor really and hes rarely in the country.

I do like the manager as a person, and we get on well, but yeah, thats the situation in terms of work balance

mistress_gi

If you move to a permanent position, usually probation period is 6 months so you can apply for mortgages after that.

It is worth the hassle, building PCs, building client relations and managing price databases etc are like 3 separate jobs. You my friend are being taken for granted big time!

Test the waters at least to find out what the demand is.

I started out like you but found my skills are in quite high demand, i ususally turn down jobs on a weekly basis

miamee

My partner is quite against me leaving my job as she worries I will hate my next one and struggle, for context my background is quite unique, in foster care at 11, moved out on my own at 17 and rented ever since, finishing college at 21 with my first real job, this one, being started at 24. I never really had or came from money so I don't really have an understanding of what my experience or skills are really worth in a job sense

Just on this, I know someone in a not dissimilar situation (lack of stability growing up, only themselves to rely on) who has struggled to leave a permanent job that they absolutely hated for the simple reason that it was permanent and pensioned. It was stable and reliable. They eventually left but not before passing up a different perfect job opportunity - a big regret. What I am saying is that moving from what you know and what is stable is scary and may be even more so for you given your background (only you will know if that is true or not) so looking around at new jobs, having something ready to go when you speak to your boss might be the better way forward for you. It's easy for all of us to say 'Leave!' but we don't have your background and we're not about to apply for a mortgage either :)

I hope it all works out for you :)

ongarite

Put it this way.

If your goal is get married & a mortgage to buy a home you need to leave this job.

You are seriously underpaid & overworked for the tiny amount they are paying you. Stop being so nice and doing favours for the company without being compensated for it.

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455288#Comment_118455288

I (unfortunately) am US based.

the poster above this comment, is absolutely correct. If the absentee CEO doesn’t value you, it is time to leave. You are being underpaid, that’s it!

while I understand that business is difficult for all in the current climate, ANYONE who shows the initiative that you have shown should be an integral part of this business, you are a rare breed. Honestly, you don’t know how to value yourself!

i suppose much of your raise will depend on the turnover that you have brought in year on year, calculate that! Show what you have done, what your worth to the business is (in a very factual and numeric way).

approach the CEO in a very formal way and state your case with facts and figures. If he still doesn’t see your worth, he is indeed an idiot. Any CEO should know what all of his employees do (it doesn’t seem to be a large organisation).

Put the case to them and wait for their response. When the response comes, then decide if they value you, or they don’t.

Francie Barrett

Seriously, it's time to start looking at other options. You have a degree, you have 4 years experience, you sound competent and hard-working, yet you are earning little more than minimum wage.

You're naturally looking for more money, but from the sound of things, it doesn't seem like the company is in much of a position to pay? Even if they did improve your salary a bit, it sounds like you've already hit a glass ceiling. Let's say you got €30k, would there ever be scope to give you a role that could bump you to €35k, or even €40k in the future?

To me, it sounds like you've simply outgrown your role and the company isn't likely to offer you the chance to develop into more senior roles (aka higher-paying). If you want more money, then it sounds like maybe you need to move on.

bridryan

agent_88

I have been in similar situation to you. I worked in a small Irish (family owned) company out of college and wore many hats - sales, scheduling engineers, customer service, in the warehouse - you name it! I pushed for pay rises and got small incremental ones but because my base was so low it made little difference. I stayed for 3 years to get the experience and learnt all I could. After that moved to a multinational.

The mindset in smaller companies is that its money coming out of their pocket - rather than looking at your overall performance, the money you save the company etc.

I get it that you like the company and the variety of work - so did I. The experience you've gained will completely stand to you and will give you an edge when progressing elsewhere but it's time to start planning your exit. The jobs market is completely booming at the moment. Update your cv and linkedin profile and start applying. It can take time so put in the effort and give it a chance. Also have a look on glassdoor for company reviews and salaries so you know what to ask for and ensure you are going to compensated correctly in your next job.

Based on your experience you could easily be starting on 40 - 50k and I'm sure you would climb the ladder fairly quickly to much higher wages. You also need to consider the overall packages - health insurance, pension, education funds etc. These are all standard now in larger companies & many are offering 100% remote.

Do not feel you owe the company anything, you don't, and at the end of the day to them you are just a number. You'll get the same thanks if you stay or go...

Once you have another offer - you could alway see if you current company will match it. If not you'll have your answer about how much they appreciate/value you. Best of luck & I hope it works out.