When will voice impressionists be cancelled?

BringingSexyBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058227422/when-will-voice-impressionists-be-cancelled

They do not always "mock". Impersonate or maybe exaggerate, but it is often rarely out of nastiness. The impersonator tends to develop a bit of a grá for their subject . The joke isn't even on them much of the time during the sketch . Sure Bertie even called the media "spanners" after hearing Mario's Bertie doing it

Note what the guys from Spitting Image said about the characters that they did and what the "victims" said about them. In fact, one or two of them kinda got a better image boast lol

The problem is where the white lads do (fantastic) impressions of black guys. There is an Irish lad , (he was on Mario's podcast recently - I think it is Conor Moore, could be wrong ) who does fantastic impersonations of prominent black guys like Tiger Woods and Mike Tyson . So good that Tiger asked him to do an advert with him for Bridgestone and loved his work. Anyway, some clown(s) on twitter have tried to call him out for doing black people. "Black mouthing" or some crazy made up phrase.

Bertie's stammer endeared people to him !!!! It is impossible not to notice it , but one one,, I I I I I mean no one ever tried to mock him for it . I wouldn't be surprised if he put that on a bit . Lately Callan and Mario do similar humourous skits with Bertie talking and misusing words and putting words out of context. Its amusing. Yer man from Bull Island did a good version of him too -

Flatley DESERVES TO BE MOCKED ! Plastic Paddy who takes himself WAAYYY too seriously

Burton does not really have a high pitched voice, it is normally low. They took it from one famous short segment on Vincent Brown show. It gets tiresome , but she isn't really mocked . Least not in a mean way

Again, big Joe Duffy is not mocked . He takes pride in his accent. Nothing nasty there. Maybe Joe might have a legitimate complaint in the manner that David McSavage observed Joe's love for miserable stories .

How Jose talks is not mocked at all. They try to give a accurate account . Again, how he talks endears people to him. It is what he says and how he acts that often deserves mocking - nevertheless , 3 times, "respect". As you would surely acknowledge, calling himself the Special One, come on, he is open to ridicule. I assume you are well aware that Jose Loved Mario's impression of him so much that he brought him over to Chelsea to talk before the players. God I miss the Setanta show he did

It cancellation, inevitable? Sadly, probably, but we must all stick together and fight this evil (in cases where cancellation is not justified. People need to grow a pair )

As for Little Britain; hmm. Love hate thing for them. I tried to hate it. I do hate some of it, but Christ those gags are bloody hilarious. Context is important. The only gay gag, is not homophobic but a tease as to how some of them act (including Lucas) The racist granny - the joke is more on her than the subjects that she has contempt for ; likewise the weight watchers doll and her relationship with the Asian

Sure look at yer man , Pub Landlord , Al Murray. If one was really thick , they would take his act seriously and not get the joke and satire and who he is really mocking. He is no Bernard Manning and he's smart - But ya, silly season will got for him too (his serious shows are great too )

dxhound2005

Bertie is now 70, and therefore a member of a vulnerable group in society, the pensioners. Time to lay off for that reason.

Cyrus

People are mad to be offended nowadays, so they go looking for things that could be considered offensive even if it requires a little imaginative thinking,

Virtue signalling at its best or worst.

Sebastian Dangerfield

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058227422/when-will-voice-impressionists-be-cancelled

I dont mind short sharp blasts of them; they're a moment in time and usually disappear before too long. In other countries that is - unlike here, where 20 years later Mario is still rolling out the same stale old Joan "can I just say" Burton and Roy "all credit TO unfunny comedy" Keane.

Rosenstock, Callan etc dont come across particularly offensive to me, they're just not funny in the least.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460459#Comment_118460459

everyone is conscious of something, too small, too tall, too fat, too thin, stammer, high pitched voice, bald, hairy.

You would be best avoid comedy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461534#Comment_118461534

ah now

razorblunt

Where would this end? Actors unable to use accents of the characters they’re portraying? We’ve all seen the disaster that was Alexander when they took that approach.

Impressionists, in my opinion only work on radio, the state of Callan and Mario and yer man Foran when they try to dress up as the person they’re taking off.

fryup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459769#Comment_118459769

oh to be with the days of Benny Hill and the like 😐️

https://imgur.com/mu6bclW

BringingSexyBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460257#Comment_118460257

To be fair to people who love comedy, they would notice and spot when the comedian is being nasty towards his subject. PPPP Pick up a Penguin De Rosa. It was funny. Now, if the stammer and his great bushy beard was the central part of every gag (and it was not) then there would be grounds to complain

Oddly enough Callan's impressions of the Healy Rae's , with the Rhododendrons and their accents are almost endearing really.

I think many people have a lot of respect for these guys in that they do not hide who they are ; they play a great job in pretending to be a bit thick and an ordinary man of the people (they ain't thick, and they are politically savy , not to mention pretty smart business operators) .

Pity it is what the real life lads say around Leinster House eg John Delaney speech during an Oireachtas Committee . Jesus H Christ . (of course balance that with Michael's good point about the value of houses only being relevant if or when you want to sell - Last Summer during the debate regarding the Nursing home bill)

Captain Barnacles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459784#Comment_118459784

What was he apologising for ?

I remember the un pc jokes in the office were poking fun at the ignorance of Brent and Gareth more than anything.

Does context not matter ?

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461761#Comment_118461761

not any more it seems, he said it wouldnt get made today,

aint that the truth

referred to gareth as a monster

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461490#Comment_118461490

Burton does not really have a high pitched voice, it is normally low. They took it from one famous short segment on Vincent Brown show. It gets tiresome , but she isn't really mocked . Least not in a mean way

Yes, she has a low voice. Rosenstock's "gag" was he'd shriek when doing an impression of her, and that was supposed to be funny for some reason. It came across as mocking to me, but it's humour, everyone's sense of humour is different.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460848#Comment_118460848

Stop gatekeeping comedy.

Oh, buzzword! Are you going to call me a snowflake next, or a member of the woke generation? I'm gatekeeping nothing. You go see whoever floats your boat, I'll go see the comedians who are so "unfunny" they sell out multiple nights in Vicar Street or the Apollo.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058227422/when-will-voice-impressionists-be-cancelled

These whataboutery threads are everywhere this week

Captain Barnacles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461789#Comment_118461789

I guess its a cry for help with his career atm...

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058227422/when-will-voice-impressionists-be-cancelled

It's called comedy, if you don't like it your free to change the channel. Also sometimes people do impressions of people they admire and the impression is more out of respect that mocking, take Tom Hiddlesons superb impression on Robert de Niro and Al Pachino on Graham Norton with De Niro in the same room

Burt Renaults

I think "cancelled" has taken over from "woke" as Boards' favourite word.

Anyway, I used to have a lisp and I didn't like it when people did impressions of me. In fact, it really pithed me off.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463912#Comment_118463912

Bad-dum tith!

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460135#Comment_118460135

but slippery slope isn´t always a fallacy.

and its an interesting question.

we live in the age of taking offence. if a person takes offence at their image being misportrayed then it goes to follows that its likely to be phased out.

when was the last mainline impression show you saw on the BBC? if people think that somebody like the BBC doesn´t actively consider questions like the OP they really haven´t been paying attention.

your last comment is such a ridiculous non sequiter. idiotic in fact. seeing that the idea is more about protecting the very people you are white knighting. we live in an age of taking offence, right or wrong. making impressions of others possibly will die a death. its right that the white actors doing black characters is phased out. simpsons revoiced their black characters. deep down its right.

People who observe such things don´t necessarily agree or disagree. it seems the op is neutral on it.

As another poster said Mackenzie Crook basically called out his character and the office. IMpressionism at least in the UK is probably consigned to youtubers. in IReland the penny will drop i´d imagine.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/dan-aykroyd-offensive-comedy-cancel-culture-b1950122.html

https://www.salon.com/2015/06/10/10_famous_comedians_on_how_political_correctness_is_killing_comedy_we_are_addicted_to_the_rush_of_being_offended/

again is it right or wrong? is it going to destroy us culturally?

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463912#Comment_118463912

would you prefer if people used the word ostracised? its a concept, somewhat vague. people use those terms as shorthand to discuss large concepts that are affecting our culture for better or worse. its not really that hard to understand.

the op makes a very good observation and it seems that at least in the UK impressions are a dying art form.

I love the trip, and the impressions are hilarious.

I think its stupid to take offence, but then again im not the one being done.

Its probably a long way from being ¨cancelled¨. i mean the roast is a US institution so i´d imagine as long as that goes, its all good.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118465806#Comment_118465806

I think you can do better than call an argument 'idiotic'. You seem to have missed the rather obvious fact that I was using the same stupid 'slippery slope' fallacy that I highlighted in the first point. It's stupid when you hear the usual cancel culture Twitterati reactionaries using it, and I was demonstrating its use to show this. Maybe I was too subtle for some readers.

On the lack of impressionist shows: maybe people don't find them funny any more? You don't see a lot of mother in law jokes these days either. Or candid camera type stuff. Have those been cancelled too? Cancel culture must have started a lot earlier than the Twitterati think.

I don't think it's a great point.

Is a lack of cruel humour going to ruin our society? I don't know. We survived the Norman Conquest, Plantation, the Famine and Catholic Emancipation. We survived the introduction of divorce and women's rights. We survived the decriminalisation of homosexuality. I think we can probably survive this.

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460135#Comment_118460135

Meanwhile your combined use of the Straw Man and False Dichotomy Fallacies is masterful.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460197#Comment_118460197

While I agree that this has always been a gripe re comedy I think it might actuallly be gaining more substance lately.

Try and think to yourself when was the last blockbuster comedy film that was genuinely laugh out loud funny. I can’t think of any in the last 5 years to be honest.

Then compare with the latter half of the 00s you had the likes of Superbad, Tropic Thunder, Anchorman, the Hangover, Hot Fuzz, Step Brothers, Borat, Pineapple Express, Role Models, Forgetting Sarah Marshall, In Bruges, the Other Guys, Hot Rod etc etc etc all made within a couple of years of each other. Few, if any of these would be made today.

TaurenDruid

So-called "cancel culture" is nothing new - it has a long and proud tradition going all the way back to Mayo 1880 when it started with Captain Boycott. It's been used all around the world since, to greater or lesser effect, against governments, corporations, employers, brands, and people.

It must be 30 or more years since the boycott of Nestlé products started - and doesn't seem to have had that much effect - and it's 35 years since the Dunnes Stores strike and the boycott of South African goods - something credited by Mandela and Tutu as helping bring down the apartheid regime.

What's funny is when "cancelled" people like Dave Chapelle get a major new Netflix show; or closer to home the likes of David Quinn and Breda O'Brien complain about conservative voices being cancelled. From their weekly columns in national newspapers. "Cancel culture" is a term invented by elements of the media for something that's been going on for well over a hundred years: some people being held to account for their actions by some other people.

ButtersSuki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058227422/when-will-voice-impressionists-be-cancelled

When are people who create usernames that partly use slang words for female genitalia going to be cancelled?

Tom1991

Whatever it takes to get Al foran to stop doing an impression of Conor mcgregor + his other impressions such as Al foran impersonates conor mcgregor doing an impression of Al Pacino and Al foran does an impression of conor mcgregor doing a jurgen klopp impression.

MuttonDagger

Offensive or not Mario Rosenstock has been doing the same crap for 20+ years and its well past time it was retired .

Talking absolute scutter in a silly voice

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466185#Comment_118466185

Here's the interesting thing: (of those that I have seen) I didn't find most of those movies that you mentioned to be 'laugh out loud funny'. To be honest, the last time I was laughing out loud at films was probably in the 80s and 90s. I guess the stuff I found funny either stopped being made, or my sense of humour continued to shift as I got older.

Those films are not objectively funny, or funnier than stuff made today. Nothing is more idioyncratic than humour.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466098#Comment_118466098

but a slipperly slope argument isn´t always a fallacy. yeah but your argument makes no sense in this context. you´re giving out about people giving out and equating them with sexists and racists, homophobic, its low brow nonsense. cancel culture, for better and worse is quite clearly happening. some of the stuff is being rightly rejected and our culure is refreshing. some of it is nonsense. some of it is judging history out of context. and others is just society tying itself up in knots - calling people out for islamophobia while silently accepting the horrors of some islamic societies is one that springs to mind.

Yeah cancel culture is quite old. The term sent to conventry etc. cancel culture is social ostracisation, which has been happening for millenia. its just amplified by the internet, the fourth great medium of human civilisation.

erm yeah...by culture i´m talking about human culture. so yeah you´ve clearly got the wrong end of the stick.

again its an observation, i´m not necessarily against the dissapearance of that sort of comedy. but if you can´t see what happens when certain sections are silenced then you need to do a little reading. comedy is a sort of watchkeeper like journalism. its observational and in essence allows those in power to be kept in check. yeah its about getting laughs but essentially its about keeping society from taking itself too serious, or highlighting the absurdity of it all.

i just read this excellent Chris Rock interview on some of the topics raised. https://www.vulture.com/2014/11/chris-rock-frank-rich-in-conversation.html

again alot of the stuff is American centred. ovbiously the issue of free speech American style comes into it.

Maybe impressionist comedy is good here because its a way of getting around libel etc.

Poking fun at Haughey back on scrap saturday cause nobody could actually write it.

But the lack of it on UK tv would make me think that silently its getting scrapped by the diversity officers in the beeb.

Again the latest season of the SImpsons sees some of this in action. was Hank Azaria doing an impression of a black man (officer lou), or was he being a voice actor? but if people feel uncomfortable with his interpretation then so be it, its done. Azaria himself became uncomfortable and dropped apu, lou and another. shearer dropped dr hibbard. Its the same when irish people get annoyed by people doing paddywhackery etc. The whole we laugh at ourselves quickly slips. articles are written etc etc.

i am not suggesting culture is under attack. i´m observing and discussing the implications. that isn´t condoning or condeming it, so please quit with the bs around people wanting homophobic, racist content back.

TLDR : if impressions cease to be a medium of comedy, then the likes of scrap saturday and portraying Haughey as the slimebag that he was fade out. in a libelous society like ours, maybe it has its place. comedy allows a light to be shone on hypocrisy, absurdity and the people who buy into its absurdity or abuse its priveleges.

Dempo1

I always understood, Imitation is a form of compliment, personally I feel if a good impressionist is going to impersonate a well known person , they'll do it completely, warts and all . Ahern doesn't have a stutter in the true sense of its meaning, its more of a Paul Harrington, eh, eh eh before he starts every sentence , albeit Bertie goes into over drive.

I would say, however, bad impressionists need to stop and immediately, there was a god awful one on Joe Duffys ridiculous Christmas eve show and my god he was utterly dreadful. Can't recall his name, that in itself says it all 😁

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466322#Comment_118466322

again its an observation, i´m not necessarily against the dissapearance of that sort of comedy. but if you can´t see what happens when certain sections are silenced then you need to do a little reading. comedy is a sort of watchkeeper like journalism. its observational and in essence allows those in power to be kept in check. yeah its about getting laughs but essentially its about keeping society from taking itself too serious, or highlighting the absurdity of it all.

what people find funny is constantly changing. That a particular performer does not have a career because their material is no longer considered funny does not mean they have been cancelled or silenced. Jim davidson no longer has a career because his racist and misogynistic material is considered funny by the masses. Has he been silenced or cancelled?

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466316#Comment_118466316

Mmyeah humour is definitely idiosyncratic but I don’t think it’s unfair to say the examples I gave are generally funnier than stuff that is being made today. Films like the Hangover, Borat, Superbad etc were smash hits and their quotes etc hugely permeated popular culture. What was the last comedy film lately that had similar cultural impact? I can’t think of any...why is that if not for the fact that films now probably aren’t as funny? (Perhaps because actors/studios are now far more cautious about any kind of potentially risqué humour, for fear of being cancelled)

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466361#Comment_118466361

yes that is true.however jim davidson is an extreme, plucked from nothing. it was always considered lowbrow comedy. but Yeah he has been rightly cancelled. is cancelled purely a negative connotation? i don´t think it is, and debates like this always ignore that fact.

Dave Chapelle wasn´t cancelled but you can be sure as **** he was basically censored and most likely is fine tooth combed through next time. again i linked a chris rock article to where he discusses all of this.

Chris Rock:

A few days ago I was talking with Patton Oswalt, and he was exercised about the new reality that any comedian who is trying out material that’s a little out there can be fucked by someone who blasts it on Twitter or a social network.

I know Dave Chappelle bans everybody’s phone when he plays a club. I haven’t gone that far, but I may have to, to get an act together for a tour.

Does it force you into some sort of self-censorship?

It does. I swear I just had a conversation with the people at the Comedy Cellar about how we can make cell phones into cigarettes. If you would have told me years ago that they were going to get rid of smoking in comedy clubs, I would have thought you were crazy.

It is scary, because the thing about comedians is that you’re the only ones who practice in front of a crowd. Prince doesn’t run a demo on the radio. But in stand-up, the demo gets out. There are a few guys good enough to write a perfect act and get onstage, but everybody else workshops it and workshops it, and it can get real messy. It can get downright offensive. Before everyone had a recording device and was wired like **** Sammy the Bull

A murderous Gambino-family underboss from Bensonhurst who became a government witness against John Gotti and testified in 1992.

, you’d say something that went too far, and you’d go, “Oh, I went too far,” and you would just brush it off. But if you think you don’t have room to make mistakes, it’s going to lead to safer, gooier stand-up. You can’t think the thoughts you want to think if you think you’re being watched.

But sure, what does he know.

You wouldn't imitate somebody's voice if you stood in front of them in conversation because it would be rude.

But somehow people think it is OK to mock it while broadcasting it to many others, behind the victims back.

Thankfully today's society are a little more concious about it. As seen by the flop of the re-release of Spitting Image. Satire at the expense of others just does not cut it anymore.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466212#Comment_118466212

I´d agree in parts.

However i think its gone further than just people being held to account. sometimes the wrong people are getting held to account, or people who in the context of their time were doing the social norms. its easy to judge the past. again the slavery staues was interesting. why wasn´t Washington renamed etc. thats what i hate most, the picking and choosing and the hypocrisy.

The fourth great communications tool the internet, has gone hand in hand with a device like the smartphone and social media. (is it all the same) this has amplified it.

its a long term cultural change, and its not happening in real time.

why use two conservative tools like QUinn and Orien to belay the point? theres a whole host of socially acceptable people who have identified the issue.

you think Chapelles next show isn´t toned down significantly? and again like you said was he held to account over his comments? i think he was yeah. he´s already made it though. its not him thats the target, its the next chapelle.

again theres tonnes of interviews with comedians discussing this very real aspect.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466429#Comment_118466429

I have no idea what any of that rant has to do with being cancelled.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466503#Comment_118466503

rant?

i gave you a very real example of a person involved at the centre of this debate. ffs.

i even extracted his qoutes to help you.

obviously you can´t see the connection between censorship, cancellation and the culture shift. so i think i´m done if your best reply to a point is calling it a rant.

jim **** davidson. ffs

we have people using jim davidson, david quinn and breda o brien. lets get the pope in on the act as well.

there is tonnes and tonnes of left leaning, liberal people with skin in the game who have spoken about this and the potential damage it may or may not cause. using two iona institute ppl as your touchstone (whichever poster it was) is gaslighting of the highest order.

Danzy

Cancel culture is just the latest name for hectoring middle class morality.

70 years ago it was the Church, now the same mindset express their new faith in activism.

Same Middle class control freaks.

The largest and most successful comedians have largely stopped doing University Comedy shows in America especially in Ivy League Universities, that is where the most aggressively progressive types are, unsurprising given how elite they are.

The control, the often randomness of it, they are as likely to turn in one of their own activists as anyone else. It's all about control and frightening people.

There used be a time when the left was working class dominated. Hard to even imagine now.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466514#Comment_118466514

it seems to me they are complaining that material from warm-up gigs is being released publicly. what does that have to do with being cancelled?

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466597#Comment_118466597

it can be interpreted as - everybody these days has a phone, and the material if not done correctly can get messy, and people will rip it to shreds on social media. but more for its ability to offend, than its quality.

sorry fair enough i linked the article, but here is more for context. again loads of comedians talk about this.

You recently hosted Saturday Night Live, and in the monologue, where you were talking about the opening of One World Trade, my wife and I both felt just like you: No way are we going into that building. But you look online the next morning, and some people were offended

Peter Johnson Jr. of Fox News: “When you say that the conduct of erecting the Freedom Tower in the same spot is arrogant … when you resort to that kind of comment in an insane, overblown, horrific way, then you’re doing a disservice to comedy.”

 and accused you of disparaging the 9/11 victims. The political correctness that was thought to be dead is now—

Oh, it’s back stronger than ever. I don’t pay that much attention to it. I mean, you don’t want to piss off the people that are paying you, obviously, but otherwise I’ve just been really good at ignoring it. Honestly, it’s not that people were offended by what I said. They get offended by how much fun I appear to be having while saying it. You could literally take everything I said on Saturday night and say it on Meet the Press, and it would be a general debate, and it would go away. But half of it’s because they think they can hurt comedians.

That they can hurt your career?

Yeah. They think you’re more accessible than Tom Brokaw saying the exact same thing.

What do you make of the attempt to bar Bill Maher from speaking at Berkeley for his riff on Muslims

“It’s the only religion that acts like the Mafia, that will **** kill you if you say the wrong thing, draw the wrong picture, or write the wrong book.”

?

Well, I love Bill, but I stopped playing colleges, and the reason is because they’re way too conservative.

In their political views?

Not in their political views — not like they’re voting Republican — but in their social views and their willingness not to offend anybody. Kids raised on a culture of “We’re not going to keep score in the game because we don’t want anybody to lose.” Or just ignoring race to a fault. You can’t say “the black kid over there.” No, it’s “the guy with the red shoes.” You can’t even be offensive on your way to being inoffensive.

When did you start to notice this?

About eight years ago. Probably a couple of tours ago. It was just like, This is not as much fun as it used to be. I remember talking to George Carlin before he died and him saying the exact same thing.

A few days ago I was talking with Patton Oswalt, and he was exercised about the new reality that any comedian who is trying out material that’s a little out there can be fucked by someone who blasts it on Twitter or a social network.

I know Dave Chappelle bans everybody’s phone when he plays a club. I haven’t gone that far, but I may have to, to get an act together for a tour.

Does it force you into some sort of self-censorship?

It does. I swear I just had a conversation with the people at the Comedy Cellar about how we can make cell phones into cigarettes. If you would have told me years ago that they were going to get rid of smoking in comedy clubs, I would have thought you were crazy.

It is scary, because the thing about comedians is that you’re the only ones who practice in front of a crowd. Prince doesn’t run a demo on the radio. But in stand-up, the demo gets out. There are a few guys good enough to write a perfect act and get onstage, but everybody else workshops it and workshops it, and it can get real messy. It can get downright offensive. Before everyone had a recording device and was wired like **** Sammy the Bull, you’d say something that went too far, and you’d go, “Oh, I went too far,” and you would just brush it off. But if you think you don’t have room to make mistakes, it’s going to lead to safer, gooier stand-up. You can’t think the thoughts you want to think if you think you’re being watched.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466485#Comment_118466485

Satire at the expense of others just does not cut it anymore.

You may be looking in the wrong place?

Satire is alive and well. Mario Rosenstock screeching because he's being Joan Burton or stuttering because he's now Bertie Ahern is not satire.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466514#Comment_118466514

So we should only use people you approve of as examples of those speaking about cancel culture, and not a comedian who has apparently been cancelled, or two social commentators who use their national platform to talk about "cancel culture."

Can you furnish us with the pre-approved list of "tonnes and tonnes of people with skin in the game who have spoken about this", so? 🤣

Obviously, the others will be cancelled from this discussion...

Ah, irony. A metal, like goldy and bronzey.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466644#Comment_118466644

why should i? google is your friend. Seinfeld, Larry David, gervais, Fry, the list goes on.

again talking about this aspect isn´t approval. ffs why can´t people get their head around that. christ

and it goes to follow that obviously a comedian who works in this realm and shares this kind of worry has more knowledge on it then breda or brien or david quinn. ffs

jim davidson is a nothing comedian. using him as an example to deflect the realities of what is happening is nonsense. ditto for those two hacks

the context was people are being gaslit for suggesting its happening and being equated with those two writers and other hacks. its a criticism obviously and should be refuted. same with people who are suggesting that anybody who discusses this wants homphobic and racist content to be brought back. its derisory and bullshit

a cultural shift is happening, not in real time, and some of it is welcome, some of it is not. some of it is a rewriting of history. some of it is just. some of it is absurd. like anything in life, we need to be balanced. and we need to be able to have discussion about it without being equated with right wing relgiously focused color writers. its not hard to understand my issue with that.

nobody can prove if cancel culture is real. its a concept.

Just as noboy can say for certain if the lack of impressionist tv shows on UK tv is anything other than it being a tired format.

like i said in Ireland maybe its a great way of getting around libel issues, same in UK. the issue of free speech american style is fundamental to the issue, and of course a point of difference to any reasonable discussion or equation of the systems as American free speech is libel here.

and again it then goes deeper again to issues around crime etc. see the example of case in papers today about uk. already named on reddit due to American laws etc. here its a breach of law. that all matters in this thing as well.

we can be facetious about this all. ah yeah its only some bloody impressionists. and that doesn´t make it a **** slippery slope fallacy.

anybody denying its happening, has their heads in the **** sand.

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460118#Comment_118460118

Davy Fitz is a thin skinned egotist. I'm not in the slightest bit surprised. As for the Healy-Raes they fully deserve any mockery they get.

TaurenDruid

Wow. There's a lot to process there...

like i said in Ireland maybe its a great way of getting around libel issues, same in UK. the issue of free speech american style is fundamental to the issue, and of course a point of difference to any reasonable discussion or equation of the systems as American free speech is libel here.

Nah. If I do a stuttery Bertie Ahern impression and imply in the course of it that Ahern's hands were in the till, I can still be done for libel. Obviously. "I was doing an impression, your honour" is not a defence. The question is would Ahern be arsed suing.

Just as noboy can say for certain if the lack of impressionist tv shows on UK tv is anything other than it being a tired format.

"I have an idea for a new TV show."

"Does it involve celebrities (fcvo "celebrity") dancing, baking, or otherwise competing with each other, with or without ice?"

"No."

"Is it some form of semi-scripted reality TV, involving attractive people?"

"No."

"Is it a talent competition?"

"No."

"**** off, so."

anybody denying its happening, has their heads in the **** sand.

I refer you to my earlier post. Happening since 1880, at least, if not earlier, only its proper name is "boycott". Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466322#Comment_118466322

Just to pick up on one of your points here: " its observational and in essence allows those in power to be kept in check."

Just to be clear, what part of not laughing at black people or people with disabilities or whatever helps us keep those in power 'in check'? Are those the powerful people in this scenario?

I think you need to better understand there's a difference between 'punching up' (at those in power) versus 'punching down' (at marginalised people who do not have power).

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466868#Comment_118466868

christ on a bike. did i not make that distinction absolutely clear.

That aspect of this cultural change is WHOLLY welcome. where did i say laughing at people like that is acceptable? my point is some comedy. i didn´t think i needed to clarify that. comedy is observational and for the most part is a medium that can be used to reflect on our own culture. and thankfully some of it which was borderline racist and homphobic, and misogynistic is gone. look i say all this as somebody who wouldn´t be a massive comedy fan. some of it is overblown shite, and riseable.

so seriously piss off with that lazy lazy commentary.

but yeah anybody who thinks cancel culture is a thing or discusses it in this context is a racist. am i right? is that the jist of it?

again in keeping with the impression theme i´ve made the point regarding how it might work in IReland. BErtie Ahern is mentioned.

As somebody said he was know to play up to his bumbling dub persona etc. so it goes to follow that somebody could use that to criticise him through comedy in a way. you couldn´t write it cause you´d be sued. Haughey is a better example as scrap saturday didn´t ahve to delve deep to portray him as he really was. the voice and mannerisms alone. spitting image the same. if people can´t get how those keep power in check somewhat (differently than journalism) then i can´t help you comprehend.

maybe read peoples posts before you go off on one.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466393#Comment_118466393

To be honest, I don't watch enough films these days to cite any examples of what I think are good comedies made in the last couple of years. I'm quite certain that something that gets laughs from racist or sexist tropes would not be made in Hollywood, which I don't think is a bad thing. Films like The Hangover and Superbad, which are essentially situational - I can certainly see them being made if Hollywood thinks there is an audience there for them.

I'm sure a man of literary taste such as yourself is aware of the very funny jokes in Patrick O'Brian's novels, which again rely on character and situation, rather than punching down on people.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466904#Comment_118466904

Or, maybe you need to calm down. It's not you against the world. In one sentence you're equating cancel culture to the death of free speech, in another you're saying "no, don't listen to those criticisms, listen to these ones from these other people", it's understandable if you're taken up wrong!

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466948#Comment_118466948

oh god

i can´t

again comprehension isn´t your strong point.

people used breda o brien and david quin in the negative sense. as in if you talk or think about a percieved cancel culture you are basically a right wing iona institute fellow. do you follow?

then another used jim davidson as an example as if he wasn´t a tired, outdated comedian but a touchstone of cutting edge current culture.

i posted a mainstream, worldwide famous comedian talking about this very aspect.

i´m not making it up. numerous comedians (again we are talking about comedy here) have discussed this aspect.

and i alreay mentioned trice how we don´t have free speech in this country. its not the same concept when a seinfeld talks about it. so no, i´m not going on about free speech. i´m saying perhaps in ireland and the uk, impressionism comedy was a way of getting around libel and thats the point of it. some of it like bo selecta and others is rightly consigned to the culutral bin.

again by discusing this, i´m not condoning or condeming. just mentioning it doesn´t mean i take a position one way or another.

a discussion can be balanced and shock horror accept two different positions. unfortunately you seem closed minded and seem to think we need to choose sides, like many on here and in general discourse. the death of comedy, if it did happen would be a loss of culture. and you have to take the criticisms of what breda and quinn mean. i read the sunday times, i sometimes read their articles. so i get what you are saying here. but again its part of the whole issue here. people twisitng themselves up in knots.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466904#Comment_118466904

Apologies, but it is very difficult to read and interpret your writing. Capitalisation, punctuation, paragraphs, linking sentences - these are basic things, but if you are trying to convey meaning or make an argument they are very helpful. When you find that lots of other people can't follow what you are trying to say, maybe you need to look a little closer to home for the source of the problem.

'Piss off' etc. aren't very helpful either in making a persuasive argument. I think if you made more effort to communicate clearly, there would less risk of somebody quoting back exact sentences you have used that you think have the opposite meaning to what they actually say.