HCC Round 3 - Castres vs Munster - Friday, Jan 14th @ 8.00pm - BT Sport 3

Poorside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477650#Comment_118477650

Pom called every attacking lineout on himself and was well read, should have known better

budhabob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477445#Comment_118477445

I hate playing Castres, but like them as a team (bar Popeye)

Cookiemunster

Should have been a more comfortable win as I thought that Munster were the better team, but over forced things, especially in the first half. But we'll take a last minute win I the South of France any day of the week.

As others have said, we're still getting over the Covid disruption and should improve as more games are played.

Clegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477750#Comment_118477750

That's fair. The lineout errors on the calls aren't as conspicuous as the handling ones from Crowley.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477598#Comment_118477598

Since the first game of the year, he’s been exceptional, to be fair to him. In line for MOTM in almost every game he’s started.

TomsOnTheRoof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477823#Comment_118477823

Agreed. Definitely put himself in the running for openside in the 6 Nations.

Poorside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477817#Comment_118477817

Don't think Wycherley took any lineout, I could be wrong just don't remember it, he had a fairly anonymous game and should have been melting rucks, Kleyn was much better in that aspect when he came on.

Time to move Ahern on a space in yhe depth chart I think

M three

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477641#Comment_118477641

Not sure about that, crowley dropped a very straightforward chest height catch at a pivotal moment.

Any win is a good win but the amount of basic catching, passing and tackling errors was incredible. Whoever takes over from VG will have to go back to the start on basic skills going on what we've seen in games so far this season.

Poorside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477957#Comment_118477957

A 21 year old made a mistake, other than that he was very good, he'll learn,there's at least 50 international caps in him.

M three

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477987#Comment_118477987

Thats a stretch, if you really think he'll make 50 intl caps you should ask PP for odds. You'll get 50/1 or more.

Just to give you some perspective cabery has 30.

Crowley is Munsters 3rd choice outhalf...

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477957#Comment_118477957

“Not sure about that, crowley dropped a very straightforward chest height catch at a pivotal moment.”

The guy turned 22 yesterday, and this was his 3rd start, and his 1st in Europe, away in the South of France at a notoriously difficult venue. By any measure, he had a very good, and encouraging, game.

Pepp1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477899#Comment_118477899

They threw him one in first half inside Castres 22 and he dropped it under a small bit of pressure.

Poorside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478047#Comment_118478047

Crowley is 22, and a lot hardier, did you see the hits and bounced back up from?

Teferi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477577#Comment_118477577

Genuinely don't know why there's about 5 lads continuously banging this drum on the rugby forum. Boards.ie has been slowly dying for years, this forum in particular is barren in comparison to what it used to be and both have gotten even worse post-migration. Is it any wonder that /r/rugbyunion, for all it's mad conspiracy theory faults, and the like are 10x as active. Eventually it will just be a handful of lads talking to themselves in their provincial threads which have become sacrosanct for some reason.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478054#Comment_118478054

His age isn't really relevant to how well he played though is it.

Having said that, I was really happy to see him have a decent game tonight. He looked very composed and it was a solid 7/10 performance, which is exactly want you'd want from a young 10 starting his first big game. Not perfect but big potential and lots to build on.

He has a great feel for his game. His line break was lovely, it's just a shame he forced the pass.

I was really impressed we how he didn't get rattled by the big shots Castres put in on him. They clearly targeted him but he kept his head.

He should start next week. The single most important thing for Crowley now is game time. He's still learning the game at senior level and he needs consistent minutes to continue his growth and iron out the mistakes. If he gets that, Munster have a gem on their hands.

I also like how he's not afraid to carry when there's no kick or pass on. You get 10s like Ross Byrne who are clearly terrified of contact.

Carbery should be played at 15 when he get's back and looking to challenge Haley. It's his better position and Munster are well covered at 10.

Poorside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478162#Comment_118478162

So his age has no relevance but you're happy with his performance considering his age...

Right so.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478181#Comment_118478181

Yes. 7/10 is good considering his age.

But his age isn't a factor in rating his performance.

It was 7/10 whether he's 22 or 32.

thomond2006

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478160#Comment_118478160

The problem is a few posters are like the shouty lads in a pub ruining the craic for everyone else. It's nothing to do with being in or wanting to be in an echo chamber.

phog

I thought POM was motm. We played some great rugby but individual errors cost us at critical times/positions.

You could argue about not going for 3 points in the latter half of the game but once we missed that opportunity and then they get another 3 points we had to go to the corner.

Don't understand posters being so critical of Crowley, he's on a massive learning curve, if course he'll make mistakes. What do posters want, a guy who won't try something and reduce his errors or a guy who's willing to play rugby and learn from his mistakes.

There's a few, thankfully only a few posters who infest most Munster match threads with their negativity, it really is time for mods to take action.

Teferi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478201#Comment_118478201

So just ignore them instead of telling others to ignore?

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478201#Comment_118478201

Don't understand posters being so critical of Crowley

Who's being critical?

The majority of posts are nothing but praise and rightly so because he did well

Poorside

Yup, haven't seen anyone critical of Crowley overall,yes he dropped 1 ball and had a bit of a brutal kick pass,other than that he had a fine game,give him the jersey and make the others take it off him.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478162#Comment_118478162

Ah c’mon, TRC.

His age isn't really relevant to how well he played though is it.

And then the very next sentence.

…exactly want you'd want from a young 10 starting his first big game.

It’s clearly and obviously a large part of the context, particularly in such a heavy decision-making position like 10. And personally, I dislike ratings out of 10 as they are entirely subjective, but I’d have given him an 8/10 tonight.

As an aside, as someone who’s been heavily critical of Munster’s game plan all season, what did you think of it 2nite?

Former Former Former

Crowley had some errors but overall it was a good performance. He's got lovely feet and made some great kicks.

I don't know if Healy is due back next week but I'd still stick with Crowley.

Elsewhere I thought Haley was MOTM, excellent display.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478047#Comment_118478047

Not any more he isn't

He's about even with Healy and will likely start next week even if Healy is fit as we'll be targeting a TBP

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478156#Comment_118478156

Yeah he took some massive hits last night and they didn't phase him. He'll be feeling them today but I still expect him to start next weekend

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478213#Comment_118478213

I've decided to ignore the posts telling others to ignore posts instead of telling people to ignore posts (starting now)

Akrasia

Healey vs Crowley vs Carbery vs Flannery. Healey only signed a 1 year Contract extension. Crowley and Healy are both up for renewal in 2023

Carbery renewed until 2024, Flannery hasn't signed an extension yet and is out of contract in 2022

Crowley already turned down offers from La Rochelle to play for Ulster. Healy has been approached by Scottish teams as he's eligible to play for Scotland internationally

I'm presuming Flannery will be signed for at least 1 more year unless Tony Butler is out performing him in training already

I can't see Munster keeping both Healy and Crowley in 2023 unless Carbery has another serious injury.

My prediction is Healy will move to Glasgow or Edinburgh and get capped by Scotland and Crowley will become Munsters primary back up for Carbery and will be capped for Ireland in 2023

leakyboots

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478503#Comment_118478503

I think something has been lost in translation here. I was not being critical of Crowley. I don't have a bad word to say about Crowley's performance. Apart from a couple of mistakes he was incredibly solid and looked comfortable at that level.

All I was saying was that a 7/10 performance, doesn't become an 8/10 performance because of the fact that he's young.

That's not the same as saying a 7/10 performance is impressive given the fact that he's inexperienced and it was a tough game.

Crowley can be very proud of the shift he put in.

As an aside, as someone who’s been heavily critical of Munster’s game plan all season, what did you think of it 2nite?

I think they showed a fair bit more ambition than they've shown in recent weeks, which is to be commended. But the skill level was quite poor and it was obvious that it's not something they're used to doing or they practice in training. For example Scannell's knock on when trying to play from deep, Archer's knock on, Crowley's offload going to deck, Casey dropping Farrell's offload which would have been a try.

Having said all that, they showed great spirit to fight back when it looked like the game got away from them. They're phase play I thought was good.

I thought Farrell and Beirne were the two standouts, they were both immense. Without Beirne they'd have lost this game and the Ulster game. The guy is world class and Munster's best player.

POM, Murray, Coombes, JOD, Hodnett, Crowley and Haley were all good too.

I great result at a difficult venue. They could actually go far if they avoid Leinster, Toulouse and Racing in the knockout stages, because I don't think the English and French clubs are particularly strong.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118480550#Comment_118480550

”But the skill level was quite poor and it was obvious that it's not something they're used to doing or they practice in training.”

I think this is the point I just give up. You think it’s obvious they don’t practice skills and attack in training?

It’s laughable.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118480887#Comment_118480887

You need to stop being so defensive and getting riled up by even the smallest criticism of Munster.

Please point to where I said they "don't practice skills and attack in training". Because I didn't say that. You left the first chunk of the paragraph out of your quote.

And yes, the skill level was poor compared to other teams, and it's clear that they don't train for playing expansive rugby, because if they did they wouldn't look so uncomfortable doing it.

Answer honestly. Do you think Munster's skill level is good enough to win a European Cup?

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118480933#Comment_118480933

Good enough to win the European Cup? Probably not right now.

Bad enough that it’s “obvious that it's not something they're used to doing or they practice in training”? Of course not.

They’re worlds apart. Like I said, it’s laughable.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118480990#Comment_118480990

You're doing it again. You're misquoting me by taking one sentence from a paragraph I wrote.

I never said they don't train their skills.

I said they tried to play with ambition, but its something they clearly haven't trained for, because whenever they tried to go wide, or offload the ball it broke down.

Of course they practice their skills like every team.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481025#Comment_118481025

So it’s not the skills, it’s the “playing with ambition” that is obvious (obvious!) they don’t practice in training? Well, that’s equally laughable tbh.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481185#Comment_118481185

Why

Instead of dismissing any criticism of Munster as "laughable", why not explain why you don't think Munster have any problems and everything is grand and maybe actually add something to the conversation.

Do Munster look like a team who train for playing expansive rugby and attacking space? Or do they look like a team who train to play forward oriented, set piece focused rugby?

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481345#Comment_118481345

You’re accusing me of misquoting you (your sentence was ambiguous whether ‘it’ meant skills or playing with ambition) yet are happy to come out with the following?

“why not explain why you don't think Munster have any problems and everything is grand”

I’ve said it consistently on here over the last year and a half, the skill set of the forwards isn’t quite where it needs to be to challenge at the top end, but that doesn’t mean we’re not trying.

Stuff we’ve seen over the last while includes pop passes from Archer, John Ryan trying offloads and tip on passes from Kleyn.

Even you go back as far as the Leinster semi-final in (I think) 2020. Handling errors at crucial times from Kleyn, Loughman, Scannell and Beirne cost us.

Look at the try of the season vs Cardiff last year. That stuff doesn’t just stick by happenstance if it’s “obvious” they’re not practicing it.

Its entirely possible I don’t have as educated a rugby eye as yourself to spot something so “obvious”. But I think it’s more likely you’re talking nonsense tbh.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481601#Comment_118481601

it’s more likely you’re talking nonsense tbh.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481601#Comment_118481601

So a try Munster scored 15 months ago, and tighthead props passing the ball a few times (which is hardly something to get giddy about in 2022), is your evidence that JVG wants Munster to play heads-up rugby and that's what he's training them to do?

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482134#Comment_118482134

Examples of them, yes. As it’s stuff we hadn’t previously seen in previous seasons.

Ardillaun

As has been noted many times, Fijian wingers are something else. Nakosi deserved more chances to shine for Castres. Was that feeble attempted tackle by Conway even legal?

leakyboots

Yes

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118487055#Comment_118487055

Legal but lucky not to injure himself. Got his head in a bad angle there.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118488789#Comment_118488789

sometimes you have to turn yourself in a speed bump. matt healy made one very brave head on tackle on Murimurivalu last weekend. Technically his head was on the wrong side, but when a 100kg fijian winger is running full pelt straight at you yo do what you can to stop them

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118490656#Comment_118490656

He looks like he wanted to hit him side on from the angle of his body in the pic. I’m assuming his head ended up there as Nakosi stepped in as he went to tackle. So was coming across him. Nakosi also left him a tiny area to hit. Still could have got injured there.

I don’t like the term speed bump as it always suggests someone bring afraid to tackle. In dynamic situations the difference between a good tackle and one that could cause injury is minuscule. Especially on the wing, when the player is coming at pace and can go in three directions.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118490704#Comment_118490704

I don’t like the term speed bump as it always suggests someone bring afraid to tackle

it does?? i dont agree. "a turnstile" is what we call someone whos afraid to tackle

we use "speed bump" in our club to describe a player who doesnt complete the tackle (being bumped off, didnt set etc) and that, if that happens, do their best to be a speed bump so that the defence can catch up.

It encourages the player to get into that "squared up" position with speed and foot work before the tackle

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118490842#Comment_118490842

I suppose different people see it in different ways. We used as someone who would throw themselves down in front of someone to make it look like they attempted a tackle. Turnstile was someone who stuck a hand out like they were playing tag with no intention of actually tackling.

I think in real time it looked like a poor decision from Conway. I’d say though he was giving Nakosi the outside and when he cut in. He couldn’t adjust quick enough and got his head in a bad place.