Do men need a license to be allowed socialise (MOD NOTE IN OP)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505505#Comment_118505505

**** hell. You actually want segregation? That's the most sexist thing I have heard here. Would you allow self identified trans women in too?

I'm assuming you'd want the bouncers to be male though?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505518#Comment_118505518

Welcome chief. I can only speak for myself definitively, but there are plenty of people here who are here if you need a chat.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505505#Comment_118505505

What you are arguing for is segregation of the sexes in society, which would bring Ireland in line with some of the least progressive parts of the world.

john123470

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505505#Comment_118505505

"I think women only pubs & clubs or certain times that are women only would actually be very popular and it might be a viable business model as Women will go to those places so they can have a night out in peace without being groped, objectified and insulted by males .."

Thats all well and good. But its not simply Men and Women (per se) anymore.

We now have 'Agender, Androgyne, Bigender, Butch (our Lesbian sisters), Cisgender, Gender expasive, Gender outlaw, Genderqueer, Masculine of centre, Nonbinary, Omnigender, Pangender, Transgender. And let's not forget any outliers

Thats a whole lotta pubs and gyms catering to the various genders. Let the good times roll .. lols

Let's hope all these 'ladies' are on their best on a night on the town and can call each other out on perceived slights incl. reining in the Butch ones when too much drink is taken etc ..

RabbleRouser2k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505517#Comment_118505517

An acquaintance I know worked in HR for a medical company, here in Ireland. One place she supervised, was about 50-60 women, all working in the same lab. These are lab conditions, so they can't wear jewellery, makeup, anything- any particle could mess up the output. (They make prosthetics. My brother worked in a similar place, years ago. One dust particle would mean your output for the day might be scrapped). Anyways, every day, she was getting complaints from employees -'this woman is bullying me' and then later in the evening 'No, she was bullying me'. She would have folders of complaints, every day. Well, finally she realised what she needed-Testosterone. She'd have 'pumped it in through the AC' if she could.

So she had two employees leaving- either retiring, or moving to another gig. She knew she couldn't hire two more women, especially two ladies in their late teens, or early 20s. Dropping them into that would be like dropping them into a war. She needed men. So the first CV's she saw, of two broad shouldered, good looking guys- probably not the most qualified, but it didn't matter, she hired them. All complaints stopped. No more 'bullying' letters. The ladies were distracted.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505501#Comment_118505501

I've spotted it with some individuals I've known. Some thinking that's, a tad worrying. I know Peter Casey tried to appeal to that demographic, and he got a lot of votes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505505#Comment_118505505

The more I think about what you said, the more I find it absurd.

Would it be acceptable for anyone to say that a men only pub would be good so men didn't have to deal with women slutting around the place, gossiping, talking about clothes and throwing out fake accusations about men.

Of course it wouldn't.

Absolutely disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.

HalfAndHalf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505505#Comment_118505505

And you’d accept male only pubs and clubs too I take it? I’m sure the men would like to have a peaceful night out with the lads without the cat calls, objectification and groping from women!

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505345#Comment_118505345

The verdict in that case was not guilty by reason of insanity.

That is what was reported.

Sleepy

Listening to what many of the female posters here are saying even after being presented with all the statistics that demonstrate they are far less likely to be the victim of random violence on the streets or Ireland, my take away is that they believe that their "right" to feel safe as women should be a higher priority for our society than a man's right to actually be safe.

Feminism has sold ye a pup ladies... maybe I can interest you in some magic beans to go with this utopian world where men are second class citizens that you believe you're entitled to?

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505505#Comment_118505505

Now do the same thing regarding gay men and see how that would be viewed in the media.

Imagine a "straight men only" period in the gym because gay men could be leering at other men or looking at other men in the changing rooms.

And with all this talk of trans rights and gender fluidity how is it going to be policed? Unisex bathrooms are becoming increasingly available in businesses and colleges around the country.

SAMTALK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505505#Comment_118505505

Women have been giving out for years about sexism and how men only golf clubs were so wrong.

This idea of yours would take us back years . Maybe they should introduce the snug back in the pub so women wouldnt have to mingle in the pub with all these dangerous men !

rightmove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505505#Comment_118505505

that sounds like you did an interview or a job in rte.

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505505#Comment_118505505

That’s a contentious road to go down though, even if it’s safety minded. Men have been browbeaten into giving up male only spaces such as Portmarnock Golf Club, which was cheered on by many feminist groups. Perfectly fine if you want a woman only pub but men need to be allowed the option of a men only pub too if that’s what they want.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505258#Comment_118505258

Gardai most certainly do get involved if it is a domestic. In fact, they are more likely, as there is a pro arrest policy for domestic incidents. They have in the last few years set up local dpsu (domestic protection services units) which coexist along side the national dvsa unit and ordinary uniformed gardai.

I'm not going by what I think people will do, I am only going by this.very thread where posters all said they would not interfere.

Keyzer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505505#Comment_118505505

Grab your coat on the way out...

bejeezus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505905#Comment_118505905

There was a time, not long ago in fact, when they didn’t as it was seen as a domestic issue. How far we’ve come, and yet not far enough.

DontHitTheDitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505450#Comment_118505450

Steven Pinker was making a similar point a couple of years ago and got lambasted for it. When the media indulges in comfortable lies so easily, when people do stumble onto a bit of reality they can react by jumping straight to the opposite extreme. It's all very well saying 'ah you can't take even a little criticism, man up for god's sake', when it's an obvious deception and slur that goes unchallenged like this, people start to identify with the only ones raising a more sympathetic point of view. I think it is actually accelerating, this rush to the extremes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505505#Comment_118505505

They would not be popular. This is ridiculous.

It's more integration society needs, not less.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505962#Comment_118505962

Probably changed around the late 90s. Remember it wasn't criminal to rape your wife at one time not long ago either!

we have come a long way.

Freight bandit

After the last few days, our media and political class are cancerous

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505703#Comment_118505703

You need to separate the stats/

Who perpetrates most attacks on women, what is percent men v women .

Who perpetrates most attacks on men, what is percent men v women .

I think men win both of these in a landslide, but because there are far more men on men crimes people like to bundle women into the pile and say '' look, see, men are more likely to be a victim of a crime''

People are not numbers, you need to look at things in two groups

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505754#Comment_118505754

yes, a surprising number of women on Twitter calling for safe places for women are she/hers - generally the pronoun represents acceptance of gender self identification. Therefore they reject categorically sex based rather than gender based spaces. Including in prisons.

DontHitTheDitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506077#Comment_118506077

You need to look at all the stats. A vast number of violent crimes and assaults are carried out by a very small number of men. You only need to read the 'previous convictions' line in reports on violent crime to see that. Centuries ago, men like this didn't last as long as they do now, as most people carried at least one knife or other weapon. Now they continue to exist as a highly destructive outlier group and we haven't really figured out a way to deal with them properly.

The same applies for the mentally ill. They used to be locked up in horrendous institutions and these were eventually shut down because of the inhumane conditions. The people that would have previously been confined in these are either roaming free or in prison.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506077#Comment_118506077

That's a fair point and one I'd be interested in seeing the data on (as flawed a dataset as it would be due to the vast majority of assaults going unreported). I would be surprised if you were wrong though tbh.

That doesn't negate my point though: the focus needs to be on reducing (since 100% prevention is unattainable in the real world) all incidences of assault not on berating all men for the actions of a miniscule minority in order to placate the panic-stricken fears of a small number of vocal women.

The minister for justice is currently being allowed to go on sexist rants against men rather than outlining how she intends to reduce the likelihood of such a horrible incident occurring again (you know, common sense stuff like increasing Garda numbers, getting more Gardaí out on the beat while allowing civilian members to handle the likes of passport applications, increasing sentences of repeat offenders, adding more prison spaces, investing in rehabilitation programmes in our prisons etc.).

In fact I'd argue that her current misandrist attacks on the men of Ireland are, in fact, far more likely to have the opposite effect. As I said earlier in this thread, if young men keep hearing about how toxic their masculinity is and how they need to do more for the benefit of their female classmates who can already expect to live longer, healthier lives than them with better expectations for educational outcome and employment opportunities they are just being conditioned to develop either horrendous mental health problems based in a lack of self-worth or to become fodder for the alt-right movement and end up becoming exactly the kind of misogynists that women will have to fear (or some combination of the two).

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505905#Comment_118505905

I can tell you from personal experience that they dont or at least a fair bit of the time they dont. But thats beside the point

You cant assume the behaviour of every man in Ireland. 99.9999% who you dont even know will behave like what posts on an anonymous message board say they will.

Leg End Reject

@CreadanLady, Imagine you go to one of these women only venues. You go to the loo and as you are washing your hands another woman comes up behind you and pinches your bum.

Now, in your own words, that isn't serious because it's only another woman right? You laugh it off and don't dream of reporting it because the guards would only laugh.

What if she says "Nice tits"? Are you still laughing now because she's only a woman?

What if she groped your breasts? Is that still ok because she's a woman?

What if she pins you against the sink and digitally rapes you? Oh, sorry! You can't call it rape because she's only a woman.

At what point would you report this? At what point would you expect the guards to stop laughing?

You've claimed men have no reason to be afraid of a woman pinching his arse or groping him, and that men are a serious threat to women leaving many of us apparently afraid when out and about. So, is the woman in above situation a threat to you?

AyeGer

I just popped into Twitter to see what’s being said and left 5 mins later. Boards is like an Oxford debating society compared to what’s being said on Twitter.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506357#Comment_118506357

Well I would hope that everybody would intervene and try to do something about anti social behaviour or assaults they witnessed. Unfortunately the posters on here seem to think I'm in the minority. I hope that you and me are correct and that most people would intervene.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506077#Comment_118506077

I don't think anyone has sought to deny that men, are more likely as a gender, to be involved in violent crime, than women. When there's realistically only two genders and that's the extent of the qualification, then it's an easy point to make.

However, I'll be selfish for a moment, pointing out that I've never been engaged in any kind of violent crime (proven or otherwise), and so, I question why my gender needs to be associated/connected with violent crime, in the manner that is currently being pushed. (God knows, no similar association is pushed about women, in spite of the high rates of violence in lesbian relationships)

In fact, when looking at the statistics, the numbers involved in violent crime are a definite minority compared to the whole.. so why should our gender be the important qualification in judging the situation. Why make that qualification important, rather than something like educational level, socio-economic background, religion, etc. In fact, I suspect using other metrics would be more informative about crime than choosing to use male/female.

SamStonesArm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506423#Comment_118506423

Ah Twitter is some laugh. Check out all the fellas giving out about #notallmen trying to get a few likes and compliments from the laydeez .

DarkJager21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506431#Comment_118506431

Nope it's not worth jumping in to domestics - no matter how brave you are feeling when you witness it. I have been there and done that - got a stilletto across the head for my troubles of decking her "boyfriend" who was only 60 seconds beforehand beating the **** out of her in a doorway. She got a slap as well because naturally, don't hit someone in the head with a stiletto and expect not to get something back. Then she tried to tell the gardai that I was the one who started the aggro....Thankfully there were sober witnesses to put holes in her story. Learned my lesson that night and now, unless a female is literally screaming out for help, I'm wouldn't bother putting on the white knight jacket.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506431#Comment_118506431

When I was younger, I used to get myself embroiled in arguments and fights on a very regular basis. I wouldnt think twice about hopping in if I saw an altercation where someone (male or female) was obviously outnumbered/vulnerable and in danger.

Often I managed to help and get the person away, but also sometimes I was rounded on and got a bit of a hiding. I always believed I was doing the right thing and my rationale was that if I was in the same predicament, I would hope someone would help me.

Admittedly, as I've gotten older and have kids, I have probably been less brave in intervening because too many people rely on me. I still believe that I wouldn't see someone in genuine danger without at least trying to help.

Sadly a good proportion of the newer generation would be more likely to film it on their phone than to help.

I hope I'm wrong.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506431#Comment_118506431

I genuinely doubt they would. Just as I doubt that you would. There are too many risks involved for something minor like anti-social behavior, or certain types of assault. For anything more serious, I suspect most people would freeze in shock, looking for support from others before intervening and generally react too late to do more than pick up the pieces. That's simply being realistic... and promising anything else is posturing.

Leg End Reject

Start a thread complaining about travellers etc. and you'll see some of the "All men" posters insist that the problem is with a minority, not the majority and that those disagreeing with them are racists/zenophobes etc.

The disconnect from reality is jarring.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506383#Comment_118506383

One of the reasons that I don’t believe in self ID, is because I do believe that men are a greater threat to women physically than other women.

for that reason I’m in favour of some sex segregation where women feel safer. This can’t be done outdoors, obviously, nor does it implicate all men - it just says that statistically men are more dangerous.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506449#Comment_118506449

Great point here. Without access to stats on the demographics of those that engage in violent attacks I'd have to fall back on personal experience so by no means a great dataset but in my experience the vast majority of those I've seen be the aggressor in any altercation, whether male or female, have been from lower socio-economic backgrounds.

Does this make it okay to blame poor people for violence against the rest of society? No. Of course it doesn't. It makes no sense. Just as it makes no sense to blame all men for the actions of a single lunatic.

NSAman

Ahhhhjaysus….see what happens lads? Give em de vote and dey end up thinking dey is special…more special den every man….

CreadanLady

Sex segregation is certainly not a novel idea in any way shape or form. Toilets are mostly segregated, dormitories in educational institutions, separate mens and womens wards in hospitals and other places such as residential care institutions for the disabled, women only gyms, single sex schools, changing rooms in sports facilties etc. Swimming pools, etc. It is very firmly established feature of society that exists in many facets of life already. There are some pubs too that organised ladies only nights in response to date rape needle attacks in pubs becoming an issue of concern during the pandemic. Drink spiking /date rape attacks are another concern that women have to be mindful of every time they go out to the pub.

There are a number of other women only spaces in various places too, such as women only parks and women only markets.

With the exception of schools, virtually all other forms of segregation according to gender exist so that women are afforded some level of protection against males who might pose a danger to them.

To make some additional women only safe zones such as pubs etc is not that much of a stretch beyond.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506795#Comment_118506795

So again I ask, would you be in favour of allowing self identifying transwomen into your women-only pub?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506795#Comment_118506795

Do people like you treat your brothers/fathers/uncles/nephews/sons with the same contempt that you hold other people's?

CreadanLady

Yes. While still biologically male, even if they did pose a risk, their numbers would be so few as to not be a significant risk to women as a whole. Whats more, LGBTQ community are likely to be more progressive and may be less inclined towards gender based violence.

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506824#Comment_118506824

Stop trying to make this personal. I always feel it is a poor sign of character in a person - when they are losing an argument they try to make it into a personal attack.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506825#Comment_118506825

Oh......................................hold on a minute!!!!!

What the hell?

So it's only straight men you are barring from your pub?

Somebody needs to do a little bit of research into domestic violence and sexual assaults within the gay community.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506838#Comment_118506838

You feel a lot of things which I don't agree with.

I haven't attacked you. I am asking if you consider your male relatives as potential threats or is it only every other man?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506795#Comment_118506795

To make some additional women only safe zones such as pubs etc is not that much of a stretch beyond

When you say that women only spaces are reasonable, but complain that men only spaces are sexist, there's a rather strong case for double standards... and the implementation of discriminatory practices.

Anyway there are a number of women only spaces existing already, that are discriminatory in practice because similar male only spaces were opened up to women in the past. Just because they've been allowed to be created doesn't mean that they're right to be allowed.

Double standards. Seems like it's the main thrust behind feminism these days.

DarkJager21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506842#Comment_118506842

But they are "progressive" enough to get entry, and there's no way any of them at all have a propensity towards violence? And the LGBT community is completely free of domestic abuse too? Maybe they can name the pub "Naivety" (or "Nai-vety" for the hipster crowd).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506825#Comment_118506825

You really need to look at violence within the LGBTQ community. You're way off base with your assumptions.

Although it's interesting that someone's sexuality, would somehow affect their inclination towards violence. Do you have some issues with men who are attracted to women?

markw7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506825#Comment_118506825

Are you aware that of all the relationship types with men and women, the most abusive happens to be women/women? Not men/women or men/men, so are lesbians allowed in your ridiculously exclusionary imaginary pub?

Leg End Reject

I think we're over-feeding a troll here ...

Actually, how is this bar going to identify gay people? Will they ask them on the way in and get them to pinky promise that they are telling the truth? Will they have to look gay? Will you make them kiss a member of the same sex?

Oh wait, I was told sexuality was on a spectrum so I could be 99.99999999999999999999% hetero and 0.0000000000000000001% homo so I can qualify for your pub.