Do men need a license to be allowed socialise (MOD NOTE IN OP)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538377#Comment_118538377

It's a very broad generalization, and a crap one at that.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540992#Comment_118540992

Are you talking about people using a single comment from a radio show panel discussion being taken as a national strategy for men which is about to be implemented?

Because that's what happened here.

Pawwed Rig

It is a discussion site. Commentators on the national media are worthy of discussion. Have a look through the site. There are threads about all sorts of opinion pieces. This thread didn't even last that long compared to many others

Leg End Reject

Discussing the merits of the suggestion that men need to be educated doesn't mean we all think its implementation is imminent.

If we were only to discuss current events there would only be one forum.

cokeiscrap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118537408#Comment_118537408

Hi @bubblypop Just wondering if you are a solicitor/barrister.

Would it be possible for you to attach a link to the information that a work night out event, which falls outside your normal work hours, is still considered work, even though you have no obligation to be there. Who is responsible if you fall and injure yourself in the premises that a night out was been held? The employer or the owner of the venue the event was happening

The alleged victim in this case reported an alleged crime to her manager. If the alleged crime had been reported to those who investigate potential crimes, i.e. the police, then we might have had a more reliable finding to what actually occurred that night/morning.

cokeiscrap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538125#Comment_118538125

You would hope not. What we do have to ascertain though, is when does work begin and when does it end. Does work begin when you enter the factory carpark or only when you clock in. Does work finish when you clock out or when you exit the company carpark.

As with a team night out. Does the night out start when you enter the hotel/venue or maybe when you've had your first beverage? Equally, when does the night out end? Is it when the entertainment, if any, finishes or is it when the function room staff clear the room to begin the cleaning?

If you are staying at the hotel where the function has been held, does the team night out continue until the night porter in charge of the residents bar decides to close up or does the night out continue until you have dragged yourself out of bed the following day and checked out of the hotel?

cokeiscrap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538377#Comment_118538377

Do you know what's worse?

Imagine been held accountable for something you didn't do because the company you worked for decided to take action to an unproven allegation against you. MUCH, MUCH WORSE

Did the fact that the WRC adjudicated on the case lost on you?

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562260#Comment_118562260

that doesn't necessarily mean anything

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/boyfriend-of-woman-in-starbucks-racial-incident-wrongly-accused-of-slur-1.4463425

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562562#Comment_118562562

If they do not have jurisdiction, then the case is thrown out.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562606#Comment_118562606

Not to mention the individual could then go back to the WRC with a case for wrongful dismissal against the company.

cokeiscrap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562260#Comment_118562260

No, but are you ruling out any chance that they may have got the decision wrong and may have been swayed by a particular movement over the past couple of years?

If they got the decision right, then was one side of this case given very bad advice?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567265#Comment_118567265

First you don't believe that a work night out is considered a work place.

Then you don't believe that the court was correct in its judgement.

Which is it?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567265#Comment_118567265

May have been swayed by a particular movement over the past couple of years

Are you seriously suggesting that the WRC is bending to social media or some sort of supposed current affair narrative?

cokeiscrap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567551#Comment_118567551

Not only do I not believe that a work night out is the workplace, a highly renowned solicitors practice didn't either.

It is not like a work team building exercise that would take place on company time. This event happened outside work and no one was obliged or forced to be there. The company also supplied free alcoholic beverages which is surely against safety at work practices.

I don't believe that both the WRC was correct in its decision or the solicitor in the advice that was given and that is why I have asked for clarity if it can be given over in the Legal Discussion Forum.

You still haven't given ant evidence, apart from this WRC ruling, that work nights out are considered work and as you say, have been for the past 20years.

cokeiscrap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567900#Comment_118567900

Yes. I am seriously suggesting this.

Potential-Monke

It's a work night out in the same sense that the barman is responsible for ensuring you don't get drunk. No issues, until there's an issue. I always assumed a work night out was work related, not social related. Especially ones where only the employees and their partners are allowed attend/if there's an area booked off for the crowd.

Now, a group of employees coming together and just having a night out, that's not work related. But organised by, sometimes paid for by your employer? That's a work do.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567973#Comment_118567973

The Employment Equality Act 1998 (Code of Practice) (Harassment) Order 2012 S.I. No. 208 of 2012 sets out a Code of Practice on Sexual Harassment and Harassment at Work (Code of Practice). This Code of Practice is issued as a guideline for employers and employees. The provisions of the code are admissible in evidence in proceedings before an Adjudication Hearing of the Workplace Relations Commission.

The Code, amongst other things, sets out the scope of sexual harassment provisions: "The scope of the sexual harassment and harassment provisions extend beyond the workplace, for example to conferences and training that occur outside the workplace. It may extend to work-related social events.”

Seems a solicitor from a highly renowned practice should have known this. Last sentence is what you are interested in.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567973#Comment_118567973

Google HR Ireland Christmas night's out/ corporate events.

There are lots of results that will show you, you are wrong and so is the solicitors firm. I would suggest in future employing the services of a solicitors firm specialising in employment law/human resources or just speaking to an employment law specialist.

cokeiscrap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118568212#Comment_118568212

Thanks for clearing that up.

I genuinely believed that work finished when you left the premises

I still don't think the outcome would have been any different for the male. He was getting dismissed whether he gave his side of the story or kept with the legal advice to say no comment. And that is wrong in every way. There should have been criminal charges at least before dismissal.

cokeiscrap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118568107#Comment_118568107

Thanks @Tell me how for the link.

Genuinely believed that social nights were not work as they happened outside normal hours and alcohol was freely available.

Shao Kahn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541898#Comment_118541898

If you're going to make the argument that men need to be better educated, but the broad subject matter is about the diverse interactions that occur between two different sexes... it would make more logical sense to promote the better education of both sexes inclusively. Or just all people generally.

Unless we are going with the assumption here, that all women are perfect flawless beings that never put a foot wrong or make any poor judgments in life? This seems to be the vague implied argument from many people around these topics.

As just one example. As a male, I have fairly good instincts at spotting potentially dodgy blokes in daily life. And I'm sure I'm not the only guy out there, that has a reasonable idea of who the decent trustworthy guys are and who the dangerous dodgy ones are.

In my experience, many women don't seem to have this same level of awareness. I've witnessed more times than I can even care to remember, women who seem to be completely oblivious to what I would term "obvious warning signs" that a certain guy is a bit dodgy / untrustworthy.

Now, this might seem like I'm victim blaming here. That's not my intention in any way by highlighting such discrepancies. I am simply stating something very obvious to me, that I have observed in daily life. If that dodgy guy goes on to do something horrible, that is unequivocally the man's fault. I am not trying to muddy the waters on that point what so ever.

I can't walk up to a woman, and say "Hey, you know that dude seems a bit dodge... maybe you should keep away from him!" I can't prove he's dangerous, and there is obviously always the chance that my instincts could be wrong on that occasion.

So painting men as a group, as being both the sole cause AND the sole solution to all these problems... is both deeply unhelpful and just plain wrong. Education needs to be across the board, not just directed at one group of people.

Although I do feel a natural instinct to protect women from danger, as an individual man, I have a very limited impact in terms of what I can actually achieve. And as a group, men have limitations in terms of what we can achieve as well. The blame game very often only serves to obfuscate this fact, and make the problems even harder to solve.

Grab All Association

Johnstown and Urlingford are so close to Thurles and Templemore you might as well say they are part of the Thurles area.

As a resident Thurles man, take my word that a lot of girls in these areas are compulsive liars and tend to exaggerate. For example the longer a girl is on the housing list here, the more times she’s allegedly getting raped on a daily basis by the Syrian Refugees who are taking all de how-shezs.

Go look on Thurles groups and there’s always an alleged abduction, cliche bag of sweets offered by the man in the white van, child successfully fending off the much larger and stronger adult etc. Always happens at or near the council estates.

take it with a pinch of salt.

It’s an area where the only ambition is to be an unmarried mother with your scumbag boyfriend. All the factories and industries left a very long time ago and every young woman has an elevated BMI from eating daily in Supermacs.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569109#Comment_118569109

Did you post this in the right thread?

I'm not even sure it was posted in the right universe

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569109#Comment_118569109

Scary post.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569027#Comment_118569027

I'd be fine with sensible education for young people. I think consent is a gray area to a lot of people. If you get chatting about it on Boards, you'll see a blanket joke to the effect of "consent is easy, dont rape anyone". But if you get mych further with the discussion you'll see a pretty broad range of opinions about what consentnis and how its understood.

Maybe consent is taught well in schools now, but I wasn't taught in any detail in my day.

You'll never stop the bad eggs from raping or murdering, or making up an accusation out of nothing, by giving them consent classes. That's not the point. The point is to educate both men and women so they both know what they have and haven't consented to. If you care about men being accused of rape in a marginal situation, then if both of them have a shared view of what consent is, those cases are less likely to arrise.

I don't dispute your ability to spot a bad egg, but statistically, women are better at spotting psychopaths from photographs alone. Not sure what that tells us, but there you have it.

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569109#Comment_118569109

You paint a wonderful picture of Thurles.

Underground

This is a slight side note to the thread topic but it isn't entirely unrelated.

In the wake of the Ashling Murphy murder there were a lot of women (and men) understandably upset. Twitter tends to bring out the worst in people and there was more than the usual level of man hating on the platform at this time, again, I can understand it.

I noticed a lot of the Irish girls in favour of ideas such as men needing licenses to socialise etc had their revolut links in their bio, despite seemingly not producing any content of value. Just normal sh1tposting like everybody else on Twitter.

Can someone explain to me why they put their revolut links in their bio despite the fact that they provide no content of value? I notice people like Justine Stafford or other female Irish comedians will provide their PayPal links etc but this makes sense. They put effort into making skits and videos and put them on their socials free of charge, some of them are hilarious and people will quite rightly want to pay them for it.