What part-if any-should Ireland play in the defence of Ukraine if Russia invades?

Montage of Feck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118514620#Comment_118514620

There was story recently where a private tripped during an impromptu simulated attack, of course they sued on h&s grounds. I don't think Ivan will be too concerned about filling out safety reports before putting a bullet in you.

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519075#Comment_118519075

We can send in a half dozen of our Lockheed Martin F-35's to ward them off.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519311#Comment_118519311

Even if we had all the money in the World to buy fighter jets, I wouldn't be buying that shytbox

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518594#Comment_118518594

Suppose when your a useful idiot there's not a lot else to offer go team putin ,

Most normal people will just say how's the weather in mammie spare room because it's not likely you ever set a toe in Moscow let alone anywhere else east of Dublin

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519338#Comment_118519338

It's worth having a few of them ,

It's not a dog fighter , but it's going to be a very useful aircraft going forward for the US and nato

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118515502#Comment_118515502

Nahhhh, we’ve no desire to be sending people worldwide into various conflicts we’ve no business being in….When you’d let them see the bill €£$ for not being neutral…they’d change their minds…I recall reading its 2% of your GDP every year to be a member of NATO….which would cost us about just under 6 billion…per annum…going on 2016 numbers…

if there was a tangible threat to us, fair enough but there isn’t… aside from Islamic terrorists like the rest of the planet but no legitimate nation or army has a beef with us and the US / EU would have to defend us anyway if the Russians attacked.

archer22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519288#Comment_118519288

Spare a thought for the poor postmen who will be tasked with delivering a mountain of solicitor's letters to the invading Russians.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519382#Comment_118519382

And yet we're part of the EU battlegroups who will be units deployed to defend the eu from aggression ie Russia because nobody else is threatening Europe.

We could easily spend the 6bn a year on the military , increase our naval assets , Smaller patrol boats for Fisheries protection and coastal patrols ,no point buying fighter jets at this stage in the game but drones would be an option worth investing in ,we have a couple of police helicopters that are not able to give 24/7 cover ,

Something similar to the predator drone platform could give the ability to cover large areas and the ability to loiter for up to 20 hours with advanced surveillance systems .

We wouldn't have to spend 6bn pa but we can't be expecting other countries will send their sons and daughters to defend us from foreign aggression no matter how unlikely it sounds .

You also get to offset the cost of military investment by then having the ability to develop and export military technologies ,as it stands we've a several billion market exporting dual use technologies

Strumms

We are part of it in name… we literally have zero resources…

the Air Corps doesn’t even have a single attack aircraft and it’s only ability is to provide logistical support towards the running of the state… transport, fisheries patrol, Garda Air Support etc.

the Navy have 9 or 10 boats, nothing that can be useful in a war setting compared to the other countries…

less then 10,000 soldiers.

so no.

LillySV

i wasn’t expecting them to be bombing off the cork coast ! Putin if you are reading this … u can have cork, it’s a shithole!! 😂😂

just leave the rest of Ireland alone ok …

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519495#Comment_118519495

We could fit in quite well in nato ,10,000 strong we wouldn't even be the smallest military involved,

Oddly enough we have a similar GDP and population to Denmark ,and yet they have a navy , air force and very capable army .

We can't hide behind the skirt's forever

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519550#Comment_118519550

You're familiar with peacetime configurations, defensive status, offensive status, yes?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519550#Comment_118519550

Ukraine isn't Russia

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519538#Comment_118519538

Denmark has has about 20% more people residing there then we do, roughly 1 million people extra…

they also have very high income tax rates to pay for it, the highest in the EU…

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519858#Comment_118519858

Our spending for the next 10 years on welfare will add up to around 200-250 billion ,

We be lucky if we spent a fraction of that on defense,

It's not like we can't afford it ,

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519538#Comment_118519538

Sure aren't we at top table of the UN security... we decide who is taken out...

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118520512#Comment_118520512

Lets see how the UN currently works Russian invades East Ukraine and shoots down flight MH17 ,at the UN Russia blocks a strongly worded statement being released , Russia blocks the UN from using the word shot down or shooting down of flight MH17,

The same applies to china, Israel and the US ,

We have a seat nothing more , nothing will come of it ,

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522763#Comment_118522763

As much as I'd absolutely love it if we could ,

There is too many people that will start with the fake tears over sending our son's and daughters to war ,

While expecting everyone else's sons and daughters to come to defend Ireland , while snibbling political parties try to hide behind the skirt of neutrality.

Our best option maybe a standing European army , every European State supplies soldiers, tech , logistics for the defense of Europe , leaving nato to go with Japan, south Korea, Israel,in a separate alliance

dxhound2005

We have a standing army, and and without checking I expect every other country below has as well. The idea of an alliance is that member countries can be called on at times of need. Where would a European standing army be based?

The member states of NATO are: 

Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Montenegro, Netherlands, North Macedonia, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States.

NATO partner countries are:

Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Finland, Georgia, Ireland, Kazakhstan, Kyrghyz Republic, Malta, The Republic of Moldova, Russia, Serbia, Sweden, Switzerland, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan.

mickuhaha

If Russia decided to invade Ukraine it would most likely be in conjunction with a cyber attack on most world wide government security sites, much like with our health service. It will be hard to offer help when we're all at home wondering why Netflix won't work.

JC01

What's with some posters winding themselves up to the last talking about military equipment etc, you can nearly hear the Call of Duty addled lunatics climax at the thought of us deciding to build a military force and go off to war. Its downright weird.

Obviously Ireland has no role to play in any conflict that does break out, best leave that to the experts.

My heart does go out to the Ukrainians though, the future is looking very scary for them right now.

shillyshilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522763#Comment_118522763

We would be Iceland part 2

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519495#Comment_118519495

These threads are gas, you have one group saying we have nothing, while another is all gung ho and can't wait to go to war.

Fact: we do have attack aircraft, the pilatus can be armed with rockets and machine gun pods for the ground attack role.

The naval service: the 76mm Oto Melara medium calibre naval armament is the most powerful weapon in the Naval Services arsenal. The 76mm is capable of engaging naval targets at range of up to 17km with a high level of precision, ensuring that the Naval Service can maintain a range advantage over all close range naval armaments and man portable weapon systems. The gyro stabilized gun is fully automated utilising a RADAMEC Fire Control System and is capable of engaging naval, air and shore based targets. It is mounted on both the CPV and LPV class of vessel. 

We're used to our govts being wasteful but this is an area where govt have been very efficient, surely this is something we should be happy about?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523997#Comment_118523997

How very “US Congressman sending thoughts & prayers to highschool shooting victims” of you.

shillyshilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524520#Comment_118524520

definitely, if we every went to war with the RNLI or a paramilitary navy made of pleasure craft

smurfjed

Chatted about this to a Ukrainian colleague two nights ago, 25 year old female. Her opinion was that the USA was trying to put military into Ukraine and that Russia was trying to stop that happening, she thought that it would be better for her country to align themselves with Russia. Not the response that I expected and I was rather surprised.

i guess that it kinda like Irish youth thinking that SF are the bees knees.

starkid

you either invest in the army/naval/airforce or you don´t. we have clearly chosen the latter. then we have shills from SF complaining about radar. they´d be the first to moan about the high costs. But in those countries military spends also confirm jobs etc. its not all a black hole.

the irony is we expect others to come to our rescue. if Russia got any closer we´d expect the UK to save us.

Its one of those quirks of Ireland. we were never touched by the last great war, so we mantain our neutrality. in the future will that be possible?

we have no idea what its like to be in a theatre of war. all those nato countries were touched in some way by WW2. they are going to be shaped by that destruction.

i wouldn´t care either way. but theres too many Irish people who have built up this image of Ireland as a sort of saviour and bastion of pure goodness when it comes to things like the armed forces and nuclear power etc.

Ireland will only ever get some build up if something bad happens or our progression continues apace, to an Ireland where the hard left or people couched in myth and exceptionalism don´t have such a hold.

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524601#Comment_118524601

Crazy exaggeration of reality, surely sticking to facts is a better approach?

No one's going to war with anyone atm, the yanks are at worst promising to hit back with 'massive economic sanctions'. I can't imagine Putin greeting that with anything but derision.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524520#Comment_118524520

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/pilatus_when-the-us-adopted-a-swiss-war-plane-s-twin/44219834

altho we do only have 8. the reality is our navy and airforce would be quickly over run.

XsApollo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524621#Comment_118524621

She wouldn’t be far wrong,

Anybody that thinks NATO would like to admit Ukraine to benefit NATO is deluded.

The US push for Ukraine to be admitted to NATO is 100% got to do with getting one over on Russia.

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524668#Comment_118524668

No matter what we had our forces would be overrun by Russia, US, UK etc. So that is an argument to have nothing, or do we cut our cloth to suit our needs?

I'd like more of the sexy stuff but not at the expense of assisting our oap's etc.

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524621#Comment_118524621

I think it's natural many Ukrainians would ally to their large neighbour, it makes sense on many levels.

I'm sure many realise the US are merely interested in how mush grief they can cause Russia rather than any real concern for Ukraine.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524733#Comment_118524733

ah yeah look its never going to happen. having 13 jets does nothing apart from projection of power and maybe curries some influence from somewhere.

but it can swing too far the other way. where you start having people say, sure why do we need an army etc etc. the radar thing with SF speaking out is exactly the type of bs you would see. SF would be the first to moan if it was millions spent on a system.

look at our lax attitude to policing until they sexed it up with a few armed patrols after the violence. even still we are sleepwaling into more issues there/ we think we can do it different in this country. we can´t.

we are a reactionary nation and unshaped by WW2 meaning our reaction was muted. we spared our cities and people but had our leader sign Hitlers book of condolence. its shaped us for better and worse. if 20 million Irish had died in WW2 we´d probably be holding drills somewhere as well. i despise Russia and its hard left apologists but i can get some of their stance (if thats not contradictory)

Storm 10

Warship at sea tonight on Channel 5 features HMS Norththumberland sent to investigate gathering of Warships and Submarines off the West Coast of Ireland

Storm 10

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524897#Comment_118524897

Let them have their fun.

I think it's fair go if the brits insist on sending weapons to Russia's neighbours in order to mess them around, Russia pays back likewise.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524621#Comment_118524621

To be fair, it’s more like you asked a girl from East Belfast about Irish Independence. They think Gardai and the IRA colluded to kill protestants & get away with it up there, and the crazier ones would like nothing more than to be surrounded by battalions of British Army troops about to push South to end the Republic once and for all & return Ireland to its “rightful” place in the Union.

JC01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524595#Comment_118524595

I’m being realistic.

A. What moral obligation have we to get involved? Should we also involve ourselves in Syria and Yemen while we’re at it? This matter is literally none of our business. And save the faux outrage that the Russians are exercising 250km from our island. 99% of people wouldn’t of known that that area fell within our EEZ a week ago but suddenly everyone is very concerned about what boats are bobbing about in the Atlantic.

B. And this is probably the the more important point, what the hell are we supposed to do? The Russians or indeed any military superpower could send us back to 1874 in an afternoons work. Some clown was suggesting we should have 6 F32s for “coastal defence” or some such bollox earlier on. This in a country that had to rent out a couple hundred Qashqais from Hertz and slap Garda stickers on them only 2 years ago.

Lads that have seen Saving Private Ryan once too often and have absolutely no concept of the realities on the ground for those facing a superpower determined to control your country and its actions.

So no, I don’t feel like a US congressman who has an actual responsibility to deal with this situation considering US congressmen are part of the system which is inherently responsible for the situation as it stands today unlike Irish TDs!

Fathom

Shannon. Staging airport for US supplies heading to Eastern Europe. Before. During. And after military conflict. Including buildup of NATO allies in nearby conflict countries.

Of course Ireland’s neutrality from NATO may be questioned. But Ireland and the USA have an understanding that may benefit both. And airport fees paid by USA don’t hurt.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526622#Comment_118526622

Neutral in name only

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524621#Comment_118524621

She is probably ethnic Russian.

Lot of Russians moved there after the holodomor, Stalin's imposed famine, killed 1 in 5 and possibly more. The birth rate collapsed as well.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524733#Comment_118524733

It's very rarely as black or White with military forces that conflict is the only outcome.

Most times that's a rare occurrence.

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526738#Comment_118526738

All the imperialist powers have massacres and genocides to their name, nothing new in that.

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519876#Comment_118519876

So how much would you take from social welfare to give to the military?

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526456#Comment_118526456

Yeah that was me joking about sending in the 6 fighter jets, as if our military had 6 expensive fighter jets in the first place. Joke went over your head though. Reminder this is AH don’t take every post seriously.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526456#Comment_118526456

I have addressed both of your points in the opening post. On moral grounds we can reasonably expect to be in a similar situation to Ukraine should the politics of our near neighbour go badly south, and on practical grounds I refer to the support given to other efforts via landing rights, peacekeeping etc. i don’t expect us all to throw on some Green & run at them en masse yelling “BANSAIIII”, but the day may come where we need the kind of help that Ukraine needs, and we need to not be found wanting when asked ourselves.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526677#Comment_118526677

You speak of that like it’s a bad thing. The country with more Wild Geese (Irish emigrants who join their forces) gets our allegiance, if not in open than in understanding.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526907#Comment_118526907

I've been saying for years on here the welfare budget for the population we have should be a lot less than 20+ billion per year,

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524520#Comment_118524520

Your post is gas….We don’t have attack aircraft.

because the pilatus… a single engine turboprop ‘can’ be armed, does not make it an attack aircraft, no more then if you gave a lad on the street corner a uniform and a gun, he’s not a solider….it’s a multi-role, single engine turboprop aircraft, which offers mission versatility across a wide variety of roles, including passenger, cargo, medical and surveillance operations. having 4 of those won’t be deterring the Russians….

VS

Right.