Diesel vs FHEV vs PHEV

masterboy123

Hi All,

So I bought the Full hybrid Hyundai Tucson last year and am pretty happy with it overall.

But I do wonder if it's economical in terms of fuel usage.

My daily commute is 200 km (on N road with a 100 kmph speed limit), and I am getting 5.5L/100 km.

I wonder if a Plug-in hybrid or a Diesel model would be considerably cheaper in my circumstances?

Your views and opinions are welcome 😎😊

Doodah7

You are doing c. 50,000 km's a year. Going by what was the norm in the good old days, you are firmly and most definitely in diesel territory.

bazz26

You need to look at how will your fuel savings be versus how much will it cost you to trade up to another car.

Personally I would not bother with a plug in hybrid for your mileage, you might as well go full electric if your going to be plugging it into a wall. I'd imagine there are a good few full electric cars out there that can well handle over 200km per day range if you can charge it at home every night. If you can charge it while at work frequently too it might be cheaper again. I would not buy electric if you are depending on public charging though.

Alkers

What's a full hybrid?

bazz26

I'd imagine that would be the likes of a Toyota hybrid that self charges without being plugged into a charger.

colm_mcm

You went through all this before you bought though, I remember!

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503290#Comment_118503290

Taking into consideration my annual leaves and training days. The annual mileage is approx. 35000 km. I guess it's still falling into diesel category?

I hear diesel cars would be banned by 2025 and that would make it worth nothing. Also, my past experience with a diesel car wasn't fruitful. Issues with Adblue and more expensive parts.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503426#Comment_118503426

I have range anxiety that's why didn't bother with Ioniq 5.

And yes I have private car park and can easily install 7kwh home charger. I am hoping once there is an electric car that could do 600 km in real world than I will consider going electric. From my calculations I would be spending only 1/3rd in fuel costs for an electric car. But then there is a dilemma that such an EV would cost in the range of €60,000 and may not be worth it! 😕

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503487#Comment_118503487

It has a 1.5 kwh battery that charges while you are driving/braking.

User1998

So your happy with your car, and your getting 5.5L/100km. Why are you even considering changing? To save an extra litre per 100km? Why would you bother?

If your doing 35,000km per year, my calculations are that you’ll save maybe €500 to €1,000 per year on fuel. But your spending the guts of €3,500 of fuel anyway so whats the point? Its going to cost you thousands to change cars, and your getting the benefits of a hybrid now which you won’t get with a diesel.

bazz26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504041#Comment_118504041

I'm no fan or expert of electric cars but why do you think you need one with a range of 600km when your say your doing 200km a day? Even allowing for some average local driving on top of that 200km daily figure, surely the average new EV out there now would suffice? For example IONIQ 5 starts at 38k with a bigger battery one starting at 45k - https://www.hyundai.ie/ioniq5/specs.html Hyundai claim the smallest battery version will have a range of 350km while the bigger battery version will claim to do 480km. Now even taking into account real world driving and conditions surely that would be enough for your daily usage? Just plug it in overnight if it needs charging.

If you change to a diesel, hybrid or EV it's going to cost you money to trade up from your existing car either way.

Lantus

So what you have is soft hybrid or just hybrid. Phev is the next jump up with a small battery that can give 35ish km range. Bev is the full electric solution.

You would have been a bit better off on diesel but you have the car now so any change would be expensive unless you factor over a longer time period.

New Petrol and diesel cars sales are due to be stoped in 2030 generally in eu and 2035 in Ireland but that's not concrete yet. We are edging close to the flip where most car owners are switching to ev models. In 3 to 4 years this will be enough to depress ice sales (combustion engines) and legacy car makers will see huge drops in income. (The valley of death economically)

I would stick with the Tuscon and start to save now for ev transition in 3 years time for your next car. Range wise there is only a few cases where the 70kwh batteries don't meet. Needs as these cars can drive the length of the country and the infrastructure will only improve in the future.

kirving

IMO 5.5l/100km for a Petrol Tuscon is very good.

That commute is absolutely prime EV territory. Even an old one + work charing if you could, would be a massive saving.

1.70[€/l] * 5.5[l/100km] * 2[100km/day] * 5 [days/week] * 35 [weeks/year] (accounts for days off)

That's €3,275 on commuting alone.

0.1[€/kWh] * 25[kWh/100km] * 2[100km/day] * 5 [days/week] * 35 [weeks/year].

€875 on electricity. I'll be corrected I'm sure on the best electricity price or efficiently, but you're looking at €2,400 saving with any EV, and both cars cost very similar money.

I understand the range anxiety (my commute is Dublin to Galway), but have you ever driven 600km in a day without stopping? My fuel tank is only 40l (PHEV) so the range is only about 600km at best. 10-15 mins at a fast charger will have you at least another 100km these days.

amargar

I was on the same position and decided to go for a PHEV. Last thing I want when going for a trip with a car full of stuff and kids is to have to be anxious about finding a charger. Maybe in a few years things will be different.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506469#Comment_118506469

For Tesla owners with the SuC network and Ionity, this simply isnt the case anymore and hasnt been for some time

1874

PHEVs only charge from being plugged in? is that correct? correct for all cases? I didnt realise this until recently when I read it in an online article, I thought PHEVs could self charged also, but it seems not.

Based on that, I dont think a PHEV would suit the OP at all, only seem to be of use for a short journey on battery and not much else, if anything, I've read PHEVs can get appaling mileage. Im not even convinced a diesel is ideal for the OPs needs, diesels get on average better mpg or l/100km, (on average, under ideal conditions), more likely to be met driving long distances for sure, but with added costs. I think the full hybrid option seems comparable/compatible for use here, as hybrids are more likely to give a consistent mpg across most conditions compared to a diesel, but a full EV would likely be the most suitable.

Really it depends on what else the OP needs from the vehicle as much if not more than anything imo, I dont think many EVs are compatible to tow, so if that is ever a requirement then an EV wont be suitable (or as suitable imo), I think some can have towbars fitted and I'd think there isnt any reason why they could tow a light load, but they probably dont fit them so EVs wont be overstrained as I think it might really reduce range.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506226#Comment_118506226

Yes, it's a petrol hybrid Tucson. I am not revving the engine much, only while overtaking and driving at 80-105 kmph. Once I hit 120 kmph, the fuel consumption goes up by 50%.

Thanks for doing the calculations for me.

The electricity price is €0.23 kwh for me with Electric Ireland (with free Sunday electricity), so that's more than double of your calculations, but you're absolutely spot on with the petrol cost.

No, i have never driven 600 km at a stretch but also I didn't worry about having to find a charger or waiting in the queue to get access to the charger, especially when the baby is crying and screaming 😱 👶😰

Perhaps PHEV would have best suited my needs but it's too late to change now. Unfortunately, when I got the hybrid Tucson, there was no news of its PHEV version.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506469#Comment_118506469

I am exactly in the same situation from a family's perspective 😁

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504735#Comment_118504735

It's not only about commute to work but given the fact it's the only car we have and the frequent family trips to Dublin, with chargers being full, causes significant anxiety.

But i am pretty sure, there will be mid sized eV SUV with 600 km+ range coming up soon 🔜 😊Many thanks for your opinion and views.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507613#Comment_118507613

Yeah that's assuming you'd be on night rate for the electricity.

You're actually getting great economy form the petrol, you're not in a bad position to be fair.

Casati

Lovely car you have there - I’d guess with your style of driving the diesel would be slightly more economical but I can’t see it getting less than 5 litres per 100km. Diesel is a bit cheaper so you’d save maybe €400 a year on fuel - but you’d get 115bhp manual versus 230bhp auto you have now- end result no advantage. PHEV won’t be any benefit Id say as you’d have higher consumption for circa 170km a day

Ioniq 5 would seem to be a perfect car, certainly the bigger battery would see your commute with a lot to spare and you would save circa €2500 a year as you’d be charging at night so would naturally move to a night rate charger.

Cost to change after a year? Probably won’t be v high either, I’d go shopping to see what deal you’d get

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507681#Comment_118507681

Actually I don't have a separate night time electricity rate. I got €265 free credit and free Sunday electricity as part of the deal. But of course if I have an EV car then I would definitely shop around.

Thanks for your views, much appreciate it!

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507754#Comment_118507754

Thanks! 😀

The consumption has gone to 5.6L/100 km in the winter but it was 5.3L/100 km up until October. You can see from the image that car is running on battery at a speed of 86 kmph, it would only run maybe for 3-9 seconds but I believe it still makes a huge difference in economy.

I didn't like the diesel Tucson version, it comes with smaller wheels and few other cons.

I test drove Ioniq 5 and didn't find the seats comfortable for long journeys, I was told by the sale rep that Premium plus version will have 4 way lumbar support.

Overall, it seems better to continue with this car for another 2 years. Hopefully, there will be more eV options by then.

Thank you all 🙏🙂

P.S. Does anyone know if I could order a custom car seat from 3rd party with a 4-way lumbar support and massage feature? If yes, would this void warranty of the new car? Dealer told me they can't upgrade the driver seat.

PaulRyan97

I really don't think there's a problem here, 5.5l/100km from a 230bhp 1.6 tonne crossover is quite good. Especially since you're not even playing to the strength of the hybrid and doing a bunch of urban driving.

wpisdu

Plug in hybrid won’t save you money on the motorway with this kind of distances. Once the energy is gone, you will be towing 200kg+ battery with you.

Look at this, the best plug-in on the market right now seems to be Rav4. It has 18.1KWh battery, which will let you to drive 65km on the motorway / 90km in the city using electric motors, but once the battery is gone, the fuel consumption will average 6.5l/100km on the motorway due to the weight, shape of the car and air resistance.

The fuel consumption you are getting right now will be hard to beat even with the diesel.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507389#Comment_118507389

Where did you read this?

I've not come across and PHEV that doesn't charge in the same manner as a normal mild hybrid does. Battery will charge from regenerative braking, from the engine (if particular mode selected) or when plugged in.

Similar to mild hybrids, motorways are the least optimal usage case for PHEVs

kanuseeme

Electricity is cheaper than petrol, this self-charging nonsense is ridiculous, if it was so good then most houses would have a generator powering them.

The OP would have been slightly better off with a PHEV for 200 km, say he gets 40 km from the battery and 160 km with the petrol doing 6 l /100 km, I think it would do near enough the same as the hybrid version 200kg is not going to make that much difference. 160 km @ 6 = 9.6 versus 11 litre for the hybrid. Charge it in work it is now 120 km = 7.2 liters versus 11, about 900 liters less a year, the price seems to be the same for hybrid or the PHEV, lowest spec diesel is the cheapest.

It would be entirely possible to get more than 40 km from the battery with selective use, most PHEVs have a button for the engine, I would tend to use it for the most demanding parts of the journey, for example, rather than use 20 % of the battery on a steep hill, use the engine and save the battery for the flat sections of the commute or slower sections.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509584#Comment_118509584

They don’t really charge themselves. You can do regenerative breaking all day and you’ll barely add a couple of miles to the range.

colm_mcm

Far as I know, the Outlander PHEV will charge the battery to 20-25% from driving.

yiu can’t create energy, so arriving home with a full battery wouldn’t be that advantageous.you might as well buy a magic perpetual motion Toyota hybrid in that case.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118528564#Comment_118528564

I was responding to the assertion that mild hybrids self charge and PHEVs don't, which is incorrect - the self charging technology in both is the same, just the phev battery is significantly larger.